Things I hate in betting industry

**combobets100** · 02-09-12, 07:18 AM

Plus - if I give ratings, I give 1/10 to all of the bookies that you have no options to complain to the formal court about it, because they are registered somewhere where laws doesn't matther.

How many would you advertise then, if you would only advertise FAIR, NONLIMITING bookies? Pinnacle and Betfair? And for combos no options, of course. Only singles where you can make 10% ROI at max.

**Hareeba!** · 02-09-12, 07:29 AM

Certainly some truth in that diatribe but the stealing charge is not warranted in most instances.

There are very many more cheating players than cheating bookies.

**brettels** · 02-09-12, 07:30 AM

I would like to see you create a site to compete with SBR and handle as many cases in favor to the gamblers!!

**combobets100** · 02-09-12, 07:33 AM

Doesn't change all the facts I wrote up there. Not by a bit.

And yeah, those kind of answers expected.

**Hareeba!** · 02-09-12, 07:37 AM

Originally posted by combobets100

Doesn't change all the facts I wrote up there. Not by a bit.

And yeah, those kind of answers expected.

except some of those "facts" are far from it

too much of a loser's attitude in all that imho

**combobets100** · 02-09-12, 07:44 AM

I see you have no answers. So why do you answer?

**shari91** · 02-09-12, 07:48 AM

Originally posted by combobets100

3. Does not include poeple with negative ROI over long run. I see so many sites, including this forum, that people just post and post - they loose 70% of the best, have like -5% ROI over 1000 bets, and still post and post. I think those people are: a) lost in this world ; b) its all set by bookies.

So many nonsenses. I will always fight for better and fair world, but there are so many haters out there that it will be a miracle if even mods will left this thread open and let people to say truth about those things (because of diferent interests, of course.)

You say your ideal betting forum would only allow posters with a positive ROI? Yet you can't figure out which books to play at that won't limit you? All European books will limit you if you are deemed unprofitable to them... that's not some new strategy of theirs. Many offshore books will do so as well. And Aussie books. And Asian books. That's the way it's always been. If you don't want to be limited, go play at Pinnacle and Betfair if you live outside the US. Again that's not some industry secret but I'm sure you were already aware of that. GL with your bets.

**combobets100** · 02-09-12, 07:56 AM

You say "Yet you can't figure out which books to play at that won't limit you" by trying to be smart.

Then you say: "All European books will limit you if you are deemed unprofitable to them... that's not some new strategy of theirs. Many offshore books will do so as well. And Aussie books. And Asian books. That's the way it's always been."

LOL.

**combobets100** · 02-09-12, 07:59 AM

So why do you even say I'm trying to be smart? If those are only the facts?

It IS a fact SBR give A rating to the bookie that limited me after 4 winning combos?

AND THE A RATING AND SUGGESTION FROM THE 50,000 POSTS MODERATOR WAS THE ONLY REASON I CHOOSED WILLIAM HILL.

Now tell me ... who's smart and unfair in this story?

LOL.

**shari91** · 02-09-12, 08:01 AM

Originally posted by combobets100

You say "Yet you can't figure out which books to play at that won't limit you" by trying to be smart.

Then you say: "All European books will limit you if you are deemed unprofitable to them... that's not some new strategy of theirs. Many offshore books will do so as well. And Aussie books. And Asian books. That's the way it's always been."

LOL.

Exactly LOL. bigboydan - you know that guy with 50k posts that you went and blasted in your old thread tonight about William Hill? - suggested Betfair amongst other books. Back in October. Did you listen to him and try them out? What about Pinnacle? The book that's rated A+ by SBR and anyone who's ever placed more than 5 bets online in their lives?

Again, these aren't some big industry secrets here. Some prefer flashy bonuses - that's what you get at Euro books and the majority of others. Betfair and Pinnacle offer the best odds but with no bells and whistles which seems to deter certain types from playing there. Again GL.

**combobets100** · 02-09-12, 08:11 AM

I WILL try Betfair as next one for combos, although I'm not sure they offer bets like "team to score", "under over 1.5 goals", "double chance", and so on.

Pinnacle offers like 2% of matches for combo bets.
Pinnacle offers no double chances, no small lines for overs (1.5), and so on.
So useless for combos.

Still ... you can't have an answer to the fact WILLIAM HILL is rated A while limits you after 4 winning bets with stakes 13 EUR. I mean, seriously, how can you rate such a bookie with A?

You say most of the bookies are sh1t. How can you rate sh1t = A rating (as there are still many of those sh1ty rated so high). For WHO is it A rated? Who does benifit anything from them being rated A?

Is this fair to you? Normal thing in bussiness? No. You blacklist such a company and you never make bussiness with them again, because they are not serious, isn't this right?

But they (SBR) still continues to invite poeple there ... along with other 95% of the bookies listed at those ratings ...

**taxer** · 02-09-12, 08:26 AM

Things have changed , the " betting " industry is more of a corporate thing .. not a whole lot about the bookmaking like it was in the 1980s or 90s.

If you are a winning player the books will cut you.. simple just play at a book that wont.. Pinny , IBC , Bookmaker , 5dimes in some sports.

And in regards to the forum there are complaints ... and then there are just BS complaints from people just looking to take shots at books .. when a book doesnt pay then i agree to let clients know and stop promoting but you do not hear any payout delays from the books at the top of the page

**shari91** · 02-09-12, 08:27 AM

Originally posted by combobets100

I WILL try Betfair as next one for combos, although I'm not sure they offer bets like "team to score", "under over 1.5 goals", "double chance", and so on.

Pinnacle offers like 2% of matches for combo bets.
Pinnacle offers no double chances, no small lines for overs (1.5), and so on.
So useless for combos.

Still ... you can't have an answer to the fact WILLIAM HILL is rated A while limits you after 4 winning bets with stakes 13 EUR. I mean, seriously, how can you rate such a bookie with A?

You say most of the bookies are sh1t. How can you rate sh1t = A rating (as there are still many of those sh1ty rated so high). For WHO is it A rated? Who does benifit anything from them being rated A?

Is this fair to you? Normal thing in bussiness? No. You blacklist such a company and you never make bussiness with them again, because they are not serious, isn't this right?

But they (SBR) still continues to invite poeple there ... along with other 95% of the bookies listed at those ratings ...

No, I never said most bookies are shit. Although when you play with anyone rated below a B, it might get a bit scary at times.

What I said is that being limited happens everywhere for the most part. A book isn't rated solely based on whether they limit players or not. The majority of players never even run into the problem of being limited, whether it's because of their style of play or because they've figured out ways to avoid being flagged. I've never had any problems with limits at some books while other posters have been limited at them. It all depends.

As for Betfair, they have every option known to man. And if by some chance there's that one type of bet you can't find, then you'll just need to get more slick when dealing with Euro and offshore books.

**combobets100** · 02-09-12, 08:34 AM

How can I do it diferent way? I just placed 4 combos - that's all ... how should I placed them? You think it is possible bookmakers are connected between themselves and they know I'm a ROI plus player because they check out my username for example (which IS the same at the most of the bookies..)? It's amazing, you know ... only 4 bets ...

I have no idea how to avoid it :S

**shari91** · 02-09-12, 08:48 AM

Originally posted by combobets100

How can I do it diferent way? I just placed 4 combos - that's all ... how should I placed them? You think it is possible bookmakers are connected between themselves and they know I'm a ROI plus player because they check out my username for example (which IS the same at the most of the bookies..)? It's amazing, you know ... only 4 bets ...

I have no idea how to avoid it :S

That's what I mean though - bet365 did the same to me after 3 or 4 bets and I'm pretty sure I lost at least 2 of those bets. I had accidentally bet odds that moved greatly in my favour afterwards. At least with the other books I'd been there awhile but this was a complete shock.

The main thing is to not hit them for a lot of money with your first bets. Or at big odds. Bet a few losing ones there and bet the other side at another book so you only lose the juice. Or bet more on the side you think will win so you still make a profit. But give the Euro book the impression you're not some great combo player who's going to come in and grab a lot of cash right away. Bet a few crazy things... put 5 Euro on some wacky dart player. And then start mixing your combos in amongst those bets. It's a pain in the butt... but if you get a bonus from the book, you at least have that extra money to play around with to make these bets so you're not losing anything. If you go in and hit them for 4 combos at $30.00+ odds with your first 4 bets, they're going to kick you the majority of the time as that's the only history they'll have of you and you won't be considered a profitable long term customer. It makes sense from a business standpoint... it's just frustrating when it first happens but you can get around it for awhile. Sometimes quite a long time.

**combobets100** · 02-09-12, 08:51 AM

Maybe I should just bet at local bookie which won't have any history on me ever. I wonder how THEY can survive, then ... this local bookie also limited me after I got from 200->2,000 EUR, but that was only online - in live they don't know who I am and it is a big advantage ...

Good ideas though, thank you very much for this.

**touchback** · 02-09-12, 10:31 AM

All books will limit if forced too, the only differnece is how and how much... there are a few exeptions and usually has to do with full game straight wagers on mainstream sports and games... if your account is under review by the numbers guy or head lines man then you may not be limited if you are just hitting straight up... no steam or arbing, a reputable book will keep you to help move their line, if your that good. Anything else, your limited... easy to find out too. Just ask how a shop how they set and move their lines, if they say they set them in the morning or over night based on Don Best or Pinnacle and then move off of sharp action, then thats the answer. They will allow certain sharp action.

**FourLengthsClear** · 02-09-12, 10:56 AM

Start your own review site and forum.

Expecting someone else expend the time and money to do it when you pretty much rule out 90+% of potential sponsors doesn't seem all that viable, does it? If you know that all Euro books, most Asian books and most US facing books are not long term options for a winning player then why does it matter to you that a review site rates them A (or whatever) for all players. For most players financial security is the number one criteria.

If I were you I would suggest that you devote your efforts to maximising your own ROI at the books that you can play at. Combo bets and parlays are not optimal even if you are an advantage/winning player.

**135steward** · 02-09-12, 11:12 AM

How are we unprofitable to them?

Originally posted by shari91

All European books will limit you if you are deemed unprofitable to them... tMany offshore books will do so as well. And Aussie books. And Asian books. That's the way it's always been.

Here's one I can't figure out. The books make their money on the vig. They balance their bets and adjust their lines. Some small books think they can set their own lines, but, really? So, those losers aside, as long as we're paying vig, what do they care?

**sharpcat** · 02-09-12, 11:44 AM

I would prefer to see a book limit me than to see that they are letting winning players beat them for 6 figures, obviously a book would eventually go bust if they sat back and let advantaged players beat up on them. A book that does not limit players and is not a market maker like Pinny, SBO, Greek, or BetCris is going to eventually be forced to go under and stiff all players if their risk management team does not take action against sharp players.

If your that good of a player that you are limited every where you play at than that is a sign for you to step your game up and move to the next level.

**135steward** · 02-09-12, 11:50 AM

Originally posted by sharpcat

I would prefer to see a book limit me than to see that they are letting winning players beat them for 6 figures, obviously a book would eventually go bust if they sat back and let advantaged players beat up on them. A book that does not limit players and is not a market maker like Pinny, SBO, Greek, or BetCris is going to eventually be forced to go under and stiff all players if their risk management team does not take action against sharp players.

If your that good of a player that you are limited every where you play at than that is a sign for you to step your game up and move to the next level.

Ok, I get that sluggish smaller books can get beat when they can't lay off or adjust their lines fast enough. I won't quibble. Thanks for explaining.

**Santo** · 02-09-12, 11:54 AM

Originally posted by 135steward

Here's one I can't figure out. The books make their money on the vig. They balance their bets and adjust their lines. Some small books think they can set their own lines, but, really? So, those losers aside, as long as we're paying vig, what do they care?

Ideally they'd balance bets, but if you're beating the closing price chances are they can't get action on the other side at the vig.

If you bet Yankees -150, and the line moves to -170 20 minutes later, at best they might get somebody to take +150 the other side -- no vig there.

**combobets100** · 02-09-12, 11:54 AM

meaning I should do what next?

Im considering:

- local bookies in my and neiber countires
- betfair / pinnacle (little offer for combos, but still some left) / ???

I don't want to give up betting combos. While they don't allow me to play that, on the other side they give me moral boost that THIS IS the way to make highest ROI possible, so I WILL contionue to fight.

**135steward** · 02-09-12, 12:00 PM

Originally posted by Santo

Ideally they'd balance bets, but if you're beating the closing price chances are they can't get action on the other side at the vig.

If you bet Yankees -150, and the line moves to -170 20 minutes later, at best they might get somebody to take +150 the other side -- no vig there.

Another good reason. Thank you.

**shari91** · 02-09-12, 12:03 PM

Originally posted by 135steward

Ok, I get that sluggish smaller books can get beat when they can't lay off or adjust their lines fast enough. I won't quibble. Thanks for explaining.

Along with what sharpie and Santo said, I don't even think it's a matter of sluggish, smaller books necessarily. bet365 is massive obviously as is William Hill, Ladrokes, etc. But when you sign up, take a bonus (or not if you decline it) and you're immediately hitting parlays at crazy odds, betting lines that steam in your favour, etc... it's going to raise a flag. They can't really lay off those massive parlays the OP is playing if they don't even know who you are... how do you decide which leg to lay off or adjust? How do you know if this new player has a clue or is just some wanky parlay guy who never wins but tries to take shots at big scores? You don't until they've got a few bets under their belt. Euro books are rec books for the most part. They want players who like to live bet, hit the casino, don't care about paying higher juice than they would elsewhere, like the bonuses and free bets they offer, etc. They are not looking to be nailed consistently by people who have a clue... they have shareholders to please.

**shari91** · 02-09-12, 12:08 PM

Originally posted by Santo

Ideally they'd balance bets, but if you're beating the closing price chances are they can't get action on the other side at the vig.

If you bet Yankees -150, and the line moves to -170 20 minutes later, at best they might get somebody to take +150 the other side -- no vig there.

And this is apparently why I got burned at 365. My tennis handicaps suddenly steamed right before close... still have no clue why and like I said, I'm lucky if I won 2 out of 4 of those bets. But it was enough to raise an eyebrow because I was a new (albeit returning after a long absence) customer. Live and learn

**durito** · 02-09-12, 12:19 PM

So you want bookies to offer you easy to beat bets without limits?

Good luck with that.

**RickySteve** · 02-09-12, 12:23 PM

Originally posted by durito

So you want bookies to offer you easy to beat bets without limits?

Good luck with that.

I still manage to find those.

**combobets100** · 02-09-12, 01:39 PM

Originally posted by durito

So you want bookies to offer you easy to beat bets without limits?

Good luck with that.

I don't know about you - maybe you bet unwinning bets for unlimited amounts, ok, that's your case - but me ... yeah, I look for easy to beat (=winning) bets with some racional limits, not 13 e / bet, because this is just sick.

**Hareeba!** · 02-09-12, 02:34 PM

Originally posted by combobets100

meaning I should do what next?

Im considering:

- local bookies in my and neiber countires
- betfair / pinnacle (little offer for combos, but still some left) / ???

I don't want to give up betting combos. While they don't allow me to play that, on the other side they give me moral boost that THIS IS the way to make highest ROI possible, so I WILL contionue to fight.

The aim of the game is not making the highest possible ROI.

It's making the highest possible $$$$.

**combobets100** · 02-09-12, 03:15 PM

What are you trying to say with this statement?

This statement can only mean that even with low ROI, one can make nice profit, which further on means that to make as much $$$ as possible, you must bet as big as possible if you have like 2% ROI. But as betting big isn't possible (at least with combos it's reeeeally hard), your statement then again doesn't make a lot of sense, sorry.

...

**Hareeba!** · 02-09-12, 03:27 PM

Originally posted by combobets100

What are you trying to say with this statement?

This statement can only mean that even with low ROI, one can make nice profit, which further on means that to make as much $$$ as possible, you must bet as big as possible if you have like 2% ROI. But as betting big isn't possible (at least with combos it's reeeeally hard), your statement then again doesn't make a lot of sense, sorry.

...

It means what it says.
An impressive ROI/POT is not the ultimate aim of the game.
Maximising profit is the objective.
Being ultra selective and returning 20% ROI/POT is beaten by the guy who makes more bets and turnover and a bigger profit at only 4% POT.
How you do that is up to you but combos/parlays/multis is probably not the best way. I very rarely play them. They generally offer no real advantage and mostly are not as good value as making single bets imho.

**ThaddeusB** · 02-09-12, 04:41 PM

Originally posted by combobets100

- Fact that 99% of the bookies limits winning players to the stakes it because worthless.

- Fact that SBR, Bettingadvice and similiar bookies KNOW this fact and they still rate those bookies as "10/10" and such nonsenses just because they advirtise them and MONEY = EVERYTHING. Not being fair ... just money.

How can you give A rating to the bookie which limits you to the 13 EUR? HOW? What are the reasons? Are there any other reasons than earning money? Any greater reason? Does site looking nice with great support gain you 10/10? Then you should call it "top 10 nice looking bookmakers", and nothing more.

- Fact that after 1000 posts of some stealing bookie has being reported, this bookie is still rated as 10/10. Again - nothing to do with being fair - you misslead people to play at the bookies you know are worthless.

Limiting players is not a sufficient reason to cut a book's rating IMO. A business should have the right to choose to do business with whomever they choose. As long as they pay winnings in full before giving someone the boot, they are not criminals as you imply.

The rest of your post is such nonsense that it is not even worth replying to.

Thaddeus

**135steward** · 02-09-12, 05:07 PM

It ain't you

Originally posted by Hareeba!

It means what it says.
.... but combos/parlays/multis is probably not the best way. I very rarely play them. They generally offer no real advantage and mostly are not as good value as making single bets imho.

It ain't just your HO. Parlays, etc., are generally viewed as sucker bets. Books are prob'ly doing bettors a favor by limiting them. We got some very impressive math guys here at SBR. Maybe 4LC, monkey, or one of the others may notice the thread and take a few moments to confirm or deny my position. In the meantime, though, I suggest plain vanilla ML, ATS, and o/u betting.