Tackleberry vs. 5Dimes

[Duff85]

SBR and DarkHorse talk sense here. Tackleberry is a smart guy who took a shot and got paid something for finding an obvious error.

[Jim Morrison]

Mr. Mojo, funny how you can't link shot taker to a post pointing out that the player would have been up 13 billion in 6 hours.

Know what Jim said? "I drink, so I can talk with assholes."

You are confusing me with a dead guy. I understand you aren't that bright so it's okay. I still don't understand what a "shot taker" is. I guess playing a game the casino offers is wrong if the casino is so retarded they put a massively positive game up. Why not just hang all your cash over to the casino and skip the pretense of playing? Since you're a "shot taker" if you play with an advantage.

[Jim Morrison]

SBR and DarkHorse talk sense here. Tackleberry is a smart guy who took a shot and got paid something for finding an obvious error.

Tony is a smart guy. Brag that you offer player advantage games then claim it's an error anytime someone beats you up. Amazing business model!

[LVHerbie]

The recent casino mess is not A+. No question about it. I appreciate that SBR is basing their trust in 5D on long term confidence, but a slight downgrade from A+ to A, as a preventative measure, would do much to maintain credibility. Then, if the casino blunders continued, another slight downgrade to A-. At this point, Tony's word that the casino mess is in the past is just not good enough. He needs to show it. Actions speak louder than words.

This seems fair to me although I would add Tony's antics in general to the areas requiring improvement...

I have no clue who the head manager is at any of the other A+ books is but there is a reason every poster, who even lightly follows the industry, knows who is in charge at 5dimes... While I don't think this knowledge has to bad thing, (I'm thinking of Jay at WSEX (when they were still actually considered a decent book) and Blackie), some basic level of professionalism has to be expected from A+ books... I been booted or been denied future promotions at couple books but never have I received a reception that comes with the process at 5dimes...

Adding this to the frequency and nature of disputes at 5dimes I think it pretty clear that unless you totally disregard quality there is no way that this should be acceptable for an SBR A+ book...

[Dark Horse]

You are confusing me with a dead guy. I understand you aren't that bright so it's okay. I still don't understand what a "shot taker" is.

If you had to profile for one you could look for something like this:

I used their racebook a fair bit, at one point I noticed that they were still taking bets on races that ended many hours earlier, I did make a few bets, they were voided as they should have been.

Since you know it all, JM, you must have heard of bad lines. I'll leave it to your considerable intelligence to figure it out from there.

This must also have been why Tackleberry realized he might not get paid and therefore stopped at 32K, with millions of shining dollars just within his fingertips. Because Tony pays when you beat him fair and square.

[Pareto]

@ Dark Horse

You seem to be a little easier on 5D than you were on Betfair.

http://forum.sbrforum.com/sportsbooks-industry/817273-betfair-robs-100s-players-happy-hour-casino-promo-video-p3.html

Even though the instances are similar. 5D and Betfair both offered something that every reasonable individual could see was too good to be true.

[Jim Morrison]

@ Dark Horse

You seem to be a little easier on 5D than you were on Betfair.

http://forum.sbrforum.com/sportsbooks-industry/817273-betfair-robs-100s-players-happy-hour-casino-promo-video-p3.html

Even though the instances are similar. 5D and Betfair both offered something that every reasonable individual could see was too good to be true.

Evidently Dark Horse is particular who he shills for.

[Dark Horse]

I don't remember that case, Pareto, but it may be true. I often go through a process of adjusting my view as I give a dispute more thought and it comes in clearer perspective. In this case -Tackleberry versus 5D - I've pretty much done a 180. I started out with about the same kneejerk reaction as everybody else. It's often a process to see what's really going on. Most posters, I believe, don't go through that trouble, and start with one notion that they will then consider as theirs to defend at all cost.

A good example is the poster above me, who can't help himself from insulting someone who holds an opinion different than his own.

[Jim Morrison]

I don't remember that case, Pareto, but it may be true. I often go through a process of adjusting my view as I give a dispute more thought and it comes in clearer perspective. In this case -Tackleberry versus 5D - I've pretty much done a 180. I started out with about the same kneejerk reaction as everybody else. It's often a process to see what's really going on. Most posters, I believe, don't go through that trouble, and start with one notion that they will then consider as theirs to defend at all cost.

A good example is the poster above me, who can't help himself from insulting someone who holds an opinion different than his own.

I can't help but insult you after I read so many ignorant posts from you.

[Dark Horse]

Let's agree that one of us doesn't have the first clue.

[cyberinvestor]

Why is it that every player who has one of these beefs has a sketchy history of past-postings or chargebacks or bonus-whoring or something else that is not on the up and up.....?

AGREE!

If a player is charging back or past posting they are taking a free shot at the casino. If they win they keep it, if they lose they get their money back. If the book/casino let's them play knowing they will refuse to pay then the casino is turning the tables and freerolling the player. Why is that not fair? It's a game of who can screw the other first.

[saintjames]

despite hating 5dimes and bookmaker more than my own parents i agree with dozer because both players got caught trying to take advantage of a +ev opportunity and both players dont deserve not even a penny because of their greed and stupidity but both players should be allowed to keep their accounts because tonys greed and stupidity gave them a big chance to win big money so hopefully both sides learned their lessons from each other and we can all live happily ever after...amen

ps - dozer please check your inbox if and when you get a chance because i sent you a very critical pm...thank you and enjoy your upcoming weekend

[katstale]

Of course I read all threads concerning 5Pennies with great amusement. It is impossible to not understand that SBR has protected Tony's operation for many years. Several years ago, SBR purported that 5Pennies was a "pro" book. I signed up to post and, along with several others, kept hammering them abt this laughable shill tactic. Eventually they relented (think it took about 6 months) and listed them correctly as recreational. Their is nothing about Tony's operation (except getting paid quick) that is professional. He is his own worst enemy.

Having said all of that, I think Dozer got it mostly right, even if some of his logic was flawed, as usual. The guy took a reasonable shot (make no mistake it was a shot) and probably deserved more in compensation than he was offered. No way did he deserve the whole bundle.

[yokspot]

All the recreational gamblers who've lost money at 5Dimes should ********** their deposits. After all, this was illinformed, errant play on their part. If 5Dimes considers players fair game for their mistakes, it follows that 5Dimes is now fair game for playes' mistakes also.

It's only fair.

In BOTH these cases neither player committed intentional wrongdoing. In the 14K case there was unawareness of the 'bot rule, and here there was no wrongdoing at all. In the EZStreet case, there was no wrongdoing, just a likely disreputable history.

Why is EZStreet dragged through the courts, yet 5Dimes is given a free pass?

You can only claim fair, inbiased mediation if you actually offer it. SBR should have pushed for a settlement (if not 100%) in both these cases, yet they caved into the advertiser's intransigence and arrogance.

How is this better than RX?

[Dr.Gonzo]

lol, Gonzo. What did you expose? That I don't take people very serious who believe the shot taker should be paid, while playing at an advantage that would have rung up 13 billion US dollars in 6 hours of play?


Online casinos can and will cheat players. May as well take it for granted. Doesn't mean that a player who cheats the casino is thereby evening the score. Only means that you're better off at a real casino.

I exposed your poor logic. The 13 billion figure is a cop out. Perhaps you should come up with a 14 trillion figure and the player can pay off the national debt. The figure is 32 thousand.

At first you argue he took a shot at 5dimes which is debatable. Now you are calling him a cheat.

At the very least 5dimes is grossly negligible here (which you admit) and the parties should have made a reasonable settlement with an impartial SBR arbitrating. But Tony instead told the player to rack off and SBR took their 30 pieces of silver. If this was a Euro book Justin7 would have ripped them a new asshole and you know it.

[WVU]

lol, Gonzo. What did you expose? That I don't take people very serious who believe the shot taker should be paid, while playing at an advantage that would have rung up 13 billion US dollars in 6 hours of play?


Online casinos can and will cheat players. May as well take it for granted. Doesn't mean that a player who cheats the casino is thereby evening the score. Only means that you're better off at a real casino.

Why all the billion dollar type posts? The casino had limits on this game. You are really reaching here in an attempt to kiss ass.

[Bill Dozer]

If you don't read from the beginning you likely view the dispute as the book calling foul because it messed up the game, leaving the door open to free roll the player who never had a chance. If you read it all you see that the player risked nothing and knew he was getting paid thousands to click the button. There was no "game". There was nothing subjective and no speculation on what happened. As mentioned in the opening post, this is not a question of should the player receive winnings because there was no risk and no winnings. If he played all night he would have had 7 zeros in his balance.

I would like to just touch on a few subjects. For the most part I am your average -EV sportsbettor. I have used 5Dimes as one of my outs sporadically over the past several years. I used their racebook a fair bit, at one point I noticed that they were still taking bets on races that ended many hours earlier, I did make a few bets, they were voided as they should have been. I was clearly in the wrong, I believe that was in 2008. Since that incident I played on and off with 5dimes losing several hundred dollars as your average -EV guy will generally do.

In bills statement he says I had years on inactivity, this is not completely accurate. My play with 5Dimes was certainly not consistent but my last deposit was in Feb of 2011. I made the deposit to make a number of bets on the Strikeforce MMA event as 5Dimes allows mma parlays. I lost those bets.

With this incident my thoughts are I was playing a game they offered, I was playing by their rules and the software was functioning as it was supposed to. People may differ on their views of me or the situation as a whole and that is fine with me. However I hope that people also realize I have done nothing but present the facts with regards to this case.

Tackle,
Sometimes when a poster puts his account of what happened out there there ends up being a line between player's details and telling the whole story for the book. It's hard for your fellow players to get the full picture when only some of the chats and details are shared. Thanks for continuing to be up front here.

100% agree with you especially with your last comment. We appreciate your to-the-point approach. Many in your situation would try to paint it different and end up dragging this out to the same end. You might have saved 5D a bunch of money by jumping in the game cannonball style. Had other players identified the game and gone all-in and mixed up their play, it would have been an expensive month for them.

[patswin]

5dimes has had a rough couple of weeks

[Boscoe]

did tony officially admit that he is the one that is setting these payout levels? or is it some dumbass junior level casino manager or something?

[WVU]

"In bills statement he says I had years on inactivity, this is not completely accurate. My play with 5Dimes was certainly not consistent but my last deposit was in Feb of 2011" - Tackleberry


Bill, why did you throw the dig out that this guy was inactive for years up until this situation when clearly that was not the case. I would like to hear your response to this

[Dr.Gonzo]

Bill

At what point does the edge of a player have to reach where be he assumes no risk?

Obviously it is below 390%.

It would be nice to know this magical figure.

[WVU]

A total assumption on my part but from reading this in Bill's post above:

"he deposited $50 after years of inactivity and learning the payout was in the neighborhood of 390%"

"The player's activity when he was last active included 5 past-posted horse bets that he conceded to."

I would think the answer may be yes.

Can I assume that you now understand that you were misled with Bill's statement of inactivity?

"In bills statement he says I had years on inactivity, this is not completely accurate. My play with 5Dimes was certainly not consistent but my last deposit was in Feb of 2011"- tackleberry

[thegreen]

All the recreational gamblers who've lost money at 5Dimes should ********** their deposits. After all, this was illinformed, errant play on their part. If 5Dimes considers players fair game for their mistakes, it follows that 5Dimes is now fair game for playes' mistakes also.

It's only fair.

In BOTH these cases neither player committed intentional wrongdoing. In the 14K case there was unawareness of the 'bot rule, and here there was no wrongdoing at all. In the EZStreet case, there was no wrongdoing, just a likely disreputable history.

Why is EZStreet dragged through the courts, yet 5Dimes is given a free pass?

You can only claim fair, inbiased mediation if you actually offer it. SBR should have pushed for a settlement (if not 100%) in both these cases, yet they caved into the advertiser's intransigence and arrogance.

How is this better than RX?

AGREE..Anyone who lost in this 5dimes SCAM of a casino and deposited with Credit/DC should File ********** claiming service not rendered/Fraud...For all we know some games set at +390 EV others might have been 0%...I think you can go back up to 6 months and at least will get your money back from this shady outfit!!!!

[drc6491]

wow free play? really? This is almost as bad as sportsbook.com what a scumbag book

[jpowderly]

Fair enough I interpreted it as Bill saying there is a history between the player and the book that may have had an outcome on the payout Tackleberry received. Not sure. I'm often wrong when I read things so I could be mistaken. I will say though that if Bill is correct as to Tackle's admitted past-posting of bets maybe having a bearing on the payout, I can understand that more than those posters who were/are adamant that because Cory allegedly charge backed at other books, EasyStreet is right to not pay him a cent because he's a "scammer". At least Tackleberry and 5Dimes have a personal history, whatever it may be. EasyStreet and Cory had no issues before his case arose. Again, just my personal opinion as a bystander.

I dont think moderators should even voice an opinion on any disputes .No one wants to hear your bias opinions.

[Jim Morrison]

AGREE..Anyone who lost in this 5dimes SCAM of a casino and deposited with Credit/DC should File ********** claiming service not rendered/Fraud...For all we know some games set at +390 EV others might have been 0%...I think you can go back up to 6 months and at least will get your money back from this shady outfit!!!!

Amazing idea. Hope everyone follows it. **********!!!!!

[shari91]

Can I assume that you now understand that you were misled with Bill's statement of inactivity? "In bills statement he says I had years on inactivity, this is not completely accurate. My play with 5Dimes was certainly not consistent but my last deposit was in Feb of 2011"- tackleberry

I won't say misled because that implies Bill tried to do any misleading which I know isn't the case. But yes, my point about the length between deposits is obviously invalid if tackleberry deposited in February this year.

jpowderly - For the most part I don't even give my opinion - I just ask questions so I can understand people's points of view and try to draw my own conclusions without posting what they are. And anyone who knows me on the forum knows that I'm not involved in anything to do with Sportsbook disputes and my posting in threads like this is as a poster - which I stress often - unless it involves moderating of some sort. So while you're entitled to express your thoughts and opinions, I'm also entitled to express mine.

[mrpooh]

The fact that they stay at A+ is simply unacceptable. They need to send a message to 5dimes that it is not the norm for an A+ shop to do this. You never here of this crap from thegreek, diamond, pinn, etc

[mrpooh]

From other A+ books, how often do you have bad lines in which wagers are voided? As far as I know, it happens very rarely. So if this is counted as line a bad line, why should they keep A+ status?

[WVU]

I won't say misled because that implies Bill tried to do any misleading which I know isn't the case. But yes, my point about the length between deposits is obviously invalid if tackleberry deposited in February this year.

In my opinion he was misleading to support his defense of 5dimes. If the guy deposited in February why even mention that he was inactive for "years"? If he is only going by what Tony told him then that is irresponsible reporting. No need to answer. Just pointing out to you how others who have no stake in SBR might see this. I still like you either way.

[Ryangene]

Everyone that feels that 5D should receive a downgrade SBR gives you the chance to review them and put a review up. Simply follow the link that they provide to everyone and give your opinions.

http://www.sportsbookreview.com/new+player+review/

[Bill Dozer]

Bill

At what point does the edge of a player have to reach where be he assumes no risk?

Obviously it is below 390%.

It would be nice to know this magical figure.

That's a good question but I don't think there is one answer. It's like trying to define a gross error in sports betting. Circumstances can change what is fair.

Even in this case, had the player been bouncing around the casino, not just depositing for this game, and went all in with his balance on the 390% game instead of betting tiny percentage of $50 new deposit, then his play would have to be considered valid... at least to the point where he figures out and isn't gambling any more. A guy who comes in and makes one bet after a day of sports on a 250% return game and wins, should get that money. As mentioned earlier, 5D was fortunate this was cut and dry and the obvious answer is to make sure the games are managed and at normal payout. I don't think we have seen anything similar to this casino issue before. Most books have one casino and don't change the games or add promos.

[SBR Lou]

In my opinion he was misleading to support his defense of 5dimes. If the guy deposited in February why even mention that he was inactive for "years"? If he is only going by what Tony told him then that is irresponsible reporting. No need to answer. Just pointing out to you how others who have no stake in SBR might see this. I still like you either way.

Do you know how many total deposits he had, or the longest stretch of inactivity?

Also, I'm not sure that losing 'several hundred' dollars constitutes a lifetime loss of less than $450. It's interesting to see a pro angler angle you hook, line, and sinker. =)

[WVU]

Do you know how many total deposits he had, or the longest stretch of inactivity?

Also, I'm not sure that losing 'several hundred' dollars constitutes a lifetime loss of less than $450. It's interesting to see a pro angler angle you hook, line, and sinker. =)

I only know what was posted and that was 2 things. Bill posted he was inactive at 5dimes for years. The player posted that he deposited as recently as February and lost.

[Bill Dozer]

Yea he bet on an MMA event in there. It doesn't play into the facts but likely would have lead to nicer finders fee for the player had he been a customer or played in the casino before. Tony knows the player isn't interested in betting sports there and only deposited to use the atm.