2H UCLA 'all Greek'?

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  • Dark Horse
    SBR Posting Legend
    • 12-14-05
    • 13764

    #1
    2H UCLA 'all Greek'?
    I asked a few books to explain their reasoning behind the grading of the UCLA 2H wager. UCLA won the 2H by 7 pts, but a day later the score was revised. Almost all books kept the original score, but The Greek, and I believe ABC as well, regraded the wager.

    Two schools of thought.

    Greek:
    "I apologize for any inconvenience, however you can check the score at www.donbest.com or www.espn.com."



    This is typical Greek language. They don't mince words, and take the approach that they're always right.


    Matchbook:
    "Final game results are not subject to revision afterward, even by the officiating body. Otherwise the exchange might be forced to regrade events many months after they took place, which would obviously be impracticable."




    In their rules the Greek refers to Vegas rules for anything not mentioned in their rules. Vegas obviously did not regrade wagers, because tickets had already been cashed. Most on-line books followed the same logic. And so the Greek made up its own rule. I find that a scary precedent to set, especially for a book that is supposed to be A+.

    Disputes discussed on this board run anywhere from 250 to several hundred K. Would it be too imaginative to suggest that in this case the total money involved is closer to the latter? I kindly request that the Greek is downgraded to A.
  • imgv94
    SBR Posting Legend
    • 11-16-05
    • 17192

    #2
    Greek must of had too much UCLA 2nd half action.. Thats the only reason I can think of why they did what they did..

    Real Mickey Mouse job by them..
    Comment
    • Frank
      SBR Wise Guy
      • 10-13-07
      • 918

      #3
      Originally posted by imgv94
      Greek must of had too much UCLA 2nd half action.. Thats the only reason I can think of why they did what they did..

      Real Mickey Mouse job by them..

      Greek opened 2nd half line at 6.5

      That should explain a lot
      Comment
      • Immortality
        Restricted User
        • 12-20-07
        • 4599

        #4
        I withdrew my funds from Greek and wrote them an email explaining to them why I did. I told them I felt what they did was wrong and that I was taking my business elsewhere. I was not going to use them for baseball anyways with their 20 cent lines; however I would of kept a balance in there for other events.
        Comment
        • 2Pac
          SBR MVP
          • 12-12-07
          • 1474

          #5
          It makes no sense not to regrade the wager to the official score.
          Comment
          • 2Pac
            SBR MVP
            • 12-12-07
            • 1474

            #6
            Or grade it a push, like the Heat game with Shaq's foul discrepancies, or the Yankees/O's game that had to be resumed, should have been graded.

            Bookmakers are ****ing ****** bastard ass cocksucking mother****ing cunts in a disrespectful industry.
            Comment
            • betbetter
              SBR High Roller
              • 12-30-06
              • 184

              #7
              The ref waved off the basket at the buzzer. The scorekeeper was either asleep or celebrating.
              The score was'nt revised or changed, it was clarified by the NCAA. Basket never counted.
              I highly doubt theGreek made their decision on their action. C'mon.
              No win for the books here. Lots of clients calling in too if it was'nt graded to the correct score.
              Comment
              • RickySteve
                Restricted User
                • 01-31-06
                • 3415

                #8
                Did you file a complaint?
                Comment
                • Dark Horse
                  SBR Posting Legend
                  • 12-14-05
                  • 13764

                  #9
                  Hard to believe people are defending the Greek on this. Are you saying that all the other books, including Vegas, were wrong, and the Greek was the one to do it right?

                  The point is that the Greek wrote its own rule here, and did NOT follow Vegas rules, even though their website ensures us over and over that they will follow Vegas rules for anything not stated in their rules. Is that what you want? A book that writes its own rules, retroactively?

                  Retroactive is the problem, of course.
                  Comment
                  • RickySteve
                    Restricted User
                    • 01-31-06
                    • 3415

                    #10
                    Sounds like a clear case of fraud. However, very difficult to correct for the same reason the rule is written in the first place.

                    Were these wagers originally graded before or after the NCAA correction?
                    Comment
                    • betbetter
                      SBR High Roller
                      • 12-30-06
                      • 184

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Dark Horse
                      Hard to believe people are defending the Greek on this. Are you saying that all the other books, including Vegas, were wrong, and the Greek was the one to do it right?

                      The point is that the Greek wrote its own rule here, and did NOT follow Vegas rules, even though their website ensures us over and over that they will follow Vegas rules for anything not stated in their rules. Is that what you want? A book that writes its own rules, retroactively?

                      Retroactive is the problem, of course.
                      Was a unique situation, I see your point re: thegreek though.

                      Way I see it, it was an error in the posted score, not a reversed or revised decision. Whoever in Line Management at OLY made the same decision as I see and graded based on that.

                      Several hundred Thousand on an NCAA second half? Unless they had some real big boys with a real big opinion on that line I don't see it.
                      Comment
                      • Dark Horse
                        SBR Posting Legend
                        • 12-14-05
                        • 13764

                        #12
                        I was suggesting it was closer to a bigger dispute, money wise, than to a small dispute. Needless to say I have no idea about the precise amount.

                        Just found this thread. It includes an e-mail from WSEX on the same topic, as well as some initial SBR feedback. Sorry for not noticing it earlier. Better to keep it all together:
                        Sports betting and handicapping forum: discuss picks, odds, and predictions for upcoming games and results on latest bets.
                        Comment
                        • HedgeHog
                          SBR Posting Legend
                          • 09-11-07
                          • 10128

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Dark Horse
                          I was suggesting it was closer to a bigger dispute, money wise, than to a small dispute. Needless to say I have no idea about the precise amount.

                          Just found this thread. It includes an e-mail from WSEX on the same topic, as well as some initial SBR feedback. Sorry for not noticing it earlier. Better to keep it all together:
                          http://forum.sbrforum.com/players-ta...highlight=UCLA
                          DH

                          I received that email from WSEX. I don't have an account there, but I wanted to get their take on it. I forwarded that email to ABC to "show them what an A+ Book should do", and then filed a complaint with SBR. They have since suspended my account and asked me to remove my funds. ABC and Greek can go to hell as far as I'm concerned. This is clearly a case where Vegas rules apply, not "how does this affect my bottom line".
                          Comment
                          • Dark Horse
                            SBR Posting Legend
                            • 12-14-05
                            • 13764

                            #14
                            So for ABC it's our way or the highway. Sorry to hear that.

                            The one that concerns me more is the Greek, because they're supposed to be one of the standard bearers of offshore betting. If they are going to go this way, without being held accountable, what does that tell the other books they can get away with?
                            Comment
                            • HedgeHog
                              SBR Posting Legend
                              • 09-11-07
                              • 10128

                              #15
                              People that got burned by The Greek's ruling need to file a complaint and test this improper decision.
                              Comment
                              • dannyt76
                                SBR Wise Guy
                                • 06-29-07
                                • 779

                                #16
                                I don't understand what the problem is. Score was never changed. If people took UCLA 2H -6.5 or -7, they lost. I watched the game and the dunk at the end never counted. It was not even close. The ref waved off the basket immediately....so UCLA was only -5 for the 2H. I don't know where people saw the final as 53-49 UCLA and what books messed up and thought that was the score, but it was clearly not correct as the score on CBS televised broadcast showed 51-49. Anyone who took UCLA 2H lost their bet fair and square.

                                It sucks that some people got away with a win with other books, but seriously.....if you took UCLA you lost. I took them and lost my bet as well, but you aren't going to see me complain about it because I don't expect my bet to be graded a win when I didn't really win.
                                Comment
                                • dannyt76
                                  SBR Wise Guy
                                  • 06-29-07
                                  • 779

                                  #17
                                  Ok I read the other thread and saw that Bally's and Bellagio scored the game 53-49 UCLA. They were clearly wrong as the live telecast game showed 51-49. I also saw ESPN and Yahoo Sports showing the game as 51-49 that night. Surprised that big casinos like that made such a glaring mistake.
                                  Comment
                                  • Dark Horse
                                    SBR Posting Legend
                                    • 12-14-05
                                    • 13764

                                    #18
                                    The point is that Vegas rules are Vegas rules. And they are in place precisely to avoid disputes. It doesn't matter what you or I think is wrong or right. The Vegas decision is the end of it.

                                    Read the Greek's rules if you're not sure about their position on Vegas rules. Vegas clearly scored the game 53-49, and graded the wagers accordingly. That should be the end of it.

                                    The whole point of having Vegas rules is that there is one standard. When you can cash your ticket in Vegas, it should be the same online. What the Greek has done is to introduce two standards. Believe me. We, i.e. everyone involved in offshore betting, don't want to go there. Because if the Greek can get away with this, that opens to door to shady decisions for every other book. There comes a responsibility with being a top rated book. And it is up to us, bettors, to hold the Greek accountable.

                                    Who are we going to trust? Vegas, and an entire industry focused on gambling, or one guy keeping score at donbest? lol.
                                    Last edited by Dark Horse; 03-27-08, 06:19 PM.
                                    Comment
                                    • yanksrule80
                                      SBR Rookie
                                      • 03-23-08
                                      • 48

                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by dannyt76
                                      Ok I read the other thread and saw that Bally's and Bellagio scored the game 53-49 UCLA. They were clearly wrong as the live telecast game showed 51-49. I also saw ESPN and Yahoo Sports showing the game as 51-49 that night. Surprised that big casinos like that made such a glaring mistake.
                                      You obviously are mistaking sir.
                                      The latest news and headlines from Yahoo News. Get breaking news stories and in-depth coverage with videos and photos.


                                      If you read the article written by Yahoo! it clearly states 53-49 and this was a day later on yahoo also. So where ever you read this it was not at yahoo.



                                      Sports show reporting it as 53-49



                                      Another post game show.


                                      http://youtube.com/watch?v=w5NwhLbx1qk LIVE TELECAST! What ever game you were watching I am not sure of because the live telecast video here also clearly shows 53-49
                                      Comment
                                      • RickySteve
                                        Restricted User
                                        • 01-31-06
                                        • 3415

                                        #20
                                        Did They Grade It 53-49 And Then Change To 51-49 Or Not?
                                        Comment
                                        • dannyt76
                                          SBR Wise Guy
                                          • 06-29-07
                                          • 779

                                          #21
                                          That's nice that you have the proof of the incorrect score. I don't have proof, but I can tell you that I checked the scores on yahoo and espn that night and the scores read 51-49 UCLA. I don't bother to read the articles..no point...I just wanted to see the box score. Also that link you had of the CBS broadcast must have been doctored and is incomplete. It skips some parts of the ending after time expires. I sat there and watched the game and saw the ref waving the basket off. The announcers even said that the basket didn't count. I also saw the score change from 53 points to 51 points on the screen and the final showing 51-49. I don't have a link to support my comments, but I can say with certainty that I know that the score showed 51-49 on the television.

                                          Either way it doesn't matter. Correct score is 51-49...no dispute about it. It doesn't matter that places reported the score wrong...and Vegas is clearly wrong. They f'd up on the score. I want my bets graded with the correct score. I would be absolutely pissed if my bet was graded with the incorrect score....and I'm sure everyone here would be pissed as well. Our bets were graded with the correct score thus we lost. I can't be mad about it. If I placed my bet in Vegas and didn't win then I would be pissed. We bet online. Tough loss for us.
                                          Comment
                                          • yanksrule80
                                            SBR Rookie
                                            • 03-23-08
                                            • 48

                                            #22
                                            people said they did get paid then saw it deduct out their account. I was not one of them but, I remember reading that. Also I was looking at the terms of service or something on a few sites and it states they go by the score reported on nba.com and some other media outlets so even if they all screwed it up dont you follow what you say you are going to?
                                            Comment
                                            • dannyt76
                                              SBR Wise Guy
                                              • 06-29-07
                                              • 779

                                              #23
                                              Originally posted by Dark Horse
                                              The point is that Vegas rules are Vegas rules. And they are in place precisely to avoid disputes. It doesn't matter what you or I think is wrong or right. The Vegas decision is the end of it.

                                              Read the Greek's rules if you're not sure about their position on Vegas rules. Vegas clearly scored the game 53-49, and graded the wagers accordingly. That should be the end of it.

                                              The whole point of having Vegas rules is that there is one standard. When you can cash your ticket in Vegas, it should be the same online. What the Greek has done is to introduce two standards. Believe me. We, i.e. everyone involved in offshore betting, don't want to go there. Because if the Greek can get away with this, that opens to door to shady decisions for every other book. There comes a responsibility with being a top rated book. And it is up to us, bettors, to hold the Greek accountable.

                                              Who are we going to trust? Vegas, and an entire industry focused on gambling, or one guy keeping score at donbest? lol.

                                              I see your point here and I agree that since Vegas messed up and honored the incorrect score that online books should honor the same incorrect score if they are to follow Vegas rules. I don't bet with the Greek so I am not familiar with their rules, but I have no doubt that you are correct when you say they are to follow Vegas rules.

                                              Only problem is the Vegas score was wrong. I would rather the correct score be used for grading purposes than an incorrect line. If we all won our bets fair and square and then the score was changed to an incorrect score and made us lose then we would all be pissed. We didn't win fair here. So that's why our bets were graded as lost.
                                              Comment
                                              • yanksrule80
                                                SBR Rookie
                                                • 03-23-08
                                                • 48

                                                #24
                                                Also did ESPN really report it like that?

                                                ESPN presents the full 2024-25 conferences Men's College Basketball season team lineup. Includes rosters, schedules, stats and ticket information for all NCAA teams.
                                                Comment
                                                • yanksrule80
                                                  SBR Rookie
                                                  • 03-23-08
                                                  • 48

                                                  #25
                                                  Also last post here but ESPN put UCLA winning 53-49 on its brackets in their ncaa bracket contest. Why if they had the right score like you claim make so many mistakes on their website with everything that involved the score?
                                                  Comment
                                                  • dannyt76
                                                    SBR Wise Guy
                                                    • 06-29-07
                                                    • 779

                                                    #26
                                                    Originally posted by Dark Horse
                                                    So for ABC it's our way or the highway. Sorry to hear that.

                                                    The one that concerns me more is the Greek, because they're supposed to be one of the standard bearers of offshore betting. If they are going to go this way, without being held accountable, what does that tell the other books they can get away with?
                                                    I think that is the big risk involved with betting online. They can do whatever they want and we don't really have any recourse.....aside from filing complaints and/or closing our accounts and never doing business with them again. I bet online with the understanding that I may or may not get screwed. But it's worth the risk because I can't go to Vegas, Reno, or Lake Tahoe everytime I want to bet. And I don't want to use a local bookie either. And I don't really see this as me getting screwed since they used the correct score.
                                                    Comment
                                                    • Dark Horse
                                                      SBR Posting Legend
                                                      • 12-14-05
                                                      • 13764

                                                      #27
                                                      I hear you. But if your 2H wager on UCLA -6.5 or -7 was graded as a loss you were screwed.

                                                      Three situations:

                                                      - UCLA -6.5 was a win in Vegas and offshore, except at the Greek and ABC.

                                                      - UCLA -7 was a push in Vegas and offshore, but a loss at the Greek and ABC.

                                                      - UCLA -7.5 was a loss everywhere.

                                                      The line moved from -6.5 to -7.5, leaving no doubt that most action was on UCLA. In other words, by not following Vegas rules the Greek turned a loss/push/win scenario into a win/win/win outcome for the book. How can that possibly be acceptable?

                                                      Mind you, this is not just some tournament with a little cash on it. This is March Madness, one of the biggest gambling feasts in the world. And UCLA is a tournament favorite. You can bet your ass there was big money on this half. There's a name for what the Greek did: highway robbery.
                                                      Comment
                                                      • chipski
                                                        SBR MVP
                                                        • 11-16-07
                                                        • 1745

                                                        #28
                                                        The final score for the 2nd half of that game was 25 - 20 .
                                                        Not sure why anyone would think Ucla -6.5 or -7 was good for the 2nd half .
                                                        you are joking right ?
                                                        If you had TexA&M for the 2nd half you would expect it to be graded correctly when the smoke cleared right ? What is the difference ?
                                                        Final score when the smoke clears and a good book grades the wager seems to make sense to me .
                                                        you joking right ?
                                                        Comment
                                                        • Bill Dozer
                                                          www.twitter.com/BillDozer
                                                          • 07-12-05
                                                          • 10894

                                                          #29
                                                          I think this is one of those rare decisions where no one is going to be happy and the books need to add something to their rules for this so there is consistency. I personally would have a hard time being denied a winning ticket because the sport services got the score wrong but could deal with a change based on what actually happened.
                                                          Obviously Vegas would be paying on both sides since they cash tickets right away. Iv'e had scores and grading change on me for NBA games. It's not fun.
                                                          Comment
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