[Flower88]

3 bookies all with L.C.S as a provider stole my winnings. First betnflix stole my winnings and later 21.red and betsamigo. I am from the Netherlands and since national gambling law I can access very few bookies. About 10 bookies have licence and about 1 percent without does act like they have a licence. LCS limited bookies advertise here at onlinecasinospelen.com in Dutch. The one that first stole my money betnflix said I did break term 8. It states max bet is same amount as deposit needed to receive max bonus. For example if you deposit 100 euro with a 100 percent deposit bonus max bet is 100 euro. But this was a 50 percent deposit bonus with max bonus of 100 euro so 200 euro needed to receive 100 bonus. I did not bet over 200. If I could bet max 100 euro then the rule is that max bet is same as bonus size. But term states deposit needed to receive max bonus. Which differs depending on 50 or 100 percent. They only give example of 100 percent bonus. It is a trap but if you dont fall in this trap they automatically say you do too. Initially they did t say which term I did break they just all the terms and did say they take my money minus deposit. Betsamigo a month later I did play a 100 percent deposit bonus of 100 euro and max bet same as bonus size( very common bonus term). I did win all 10 of my 100 euro bonus bets. I cant remember this happening ever. When I did cash out they asked for more and more documents and other bookies did too. And over and over again placing your withdrawal back in your account and finally if you dont lose your money and withdrawal again they took my money too ( 1300+ euro). They sended my just all the terms just like betnflix and show bonus abuse terms. So when you are very lucky and win all your bets with following all the terms , max bet, minimum odds, and win all your bets they take your money. Last one of three bookies that stole my money was 21.red. It was a 100 percent bonus of 200 euro. Max bet of 200. At a time I had only 16 euro left in account but made a lot of wins after that and did end with 900 euro+. They took my winnings the same way again. After this I went to Madre which is an ADR. I told i did not break term 8 of betnflix and thought next 2 bookies did not say what I did wrong they just sended my all the terms. After this madre sended me message that LCS limited that 2 weeks to respond and then they will take a decision. Also they said they dont investigate the facts just they look if procedures is followed. This sounded very strange to me. Beginning of this month they sided with LCS limited. They now accused me of arbitrage bets and betting total balance. I did bet total balance with 21.red. but it is not relevant as it was less then max bet. I had just 16 euro left at a time. Also part of accusations/ lies are not even in their own bonus abuse terms. Madre did not let me respond just accusing me of relevant or even irrelevant lies is enough for them to side with them as they not investigate the facts. After this happened i mailed to betnflix that I would start a small court claim. Within a few days all 3 bookies have blocked my acces to sportbetting part of my account with all my bets. They want to obstruct justice now and hide evidence that they all 3 just stole my money. Because I was scared they would delete my account I left my deposit in my account which they gave back after taking my winnings. But now they did this. I have picture that I won 10 bets betsamigo in a row.( I lost one bets after bonus already completed. I do sportbetting with joy for 7 years. This 3 LCS limited bookies have stolen more from me then all others have in 7 years together. I only appeal decision when I know 100 percent that I am cheated. Some things are gray area but then I just let go. I once won 17 times 50 euro with Utrecht win on Ajax. Average bookie odds was 13. I thought giving me 17 times 50 or when you think odds to high 13 times 50 but I just got 50. This happens sometimes. But what happened with LCS limited breached all limits. I also took my fun betting because I think maybe they can just steal without consequence.

[T100]

WOW

[Thefix13]

I would recommend breaking that up a bit so people are more likely to read it.

[Flower88]

It all started with betnflix in december, the other two were in January. They said I did breach this term:

8. The maximum bet amount a player can place when having an Active Sports Bonus is equal to the deposit amount. Should a player deposit more than the required amount to trigger the maximum bonus, the maximum bet amount a player can place equals the amount that triggers the maximum bonus. For example, for a Sports Bonus of 100% up to €100, if the player: a)
deposit is €50, the maximum bet amount is also €50, and b) deposits €150, the maximum bet amount is €100

I did play a 50 percent deposit bonus with max bonus of 100. Which is different then examples above with 100 percent deposit bonus. 200 euro was needed to receive 100 euro and I did deposit that. I did bet 200 euro and less. I did read this term before playing and believe it or not I thought would they understand the implications of the term when it is not like the example 100 percent deposit bonus but 50 percent with 200 needed for 100 euro bonus. Most people are around 100 IQ and I understand it can be confusing for themselves but this implies good faith This rule seems like a trap and when not given an example of 50 percent bonus up to 100 euro which needs 200 euro I could not know they can not extrapolate the principle 'required amount to trigger the maximum bonus' to this 50 percent bonus. If I could bet only 100 still when 200 deposit is needed then the rule is just like most bookies who have a max bet size same as bonus size and not the bonus rule they have.

[Optional]

I would recommend breaking that up a bit so people are more likely to read it.

Yes.

If you can't be bothered formatting it using sentences and paragraphs so it's readable. Can't expect anyone else to care enough to hurt their eyes/brain trying to decipher your wall of text either.

[Flower88]

Hi,

Yes, I wanted to say too much. I just wrote a shorter part about just Betnflix and not all 3.

[Optional]

It all started with betnflix in december, the other two were in december. They said I did breach this term

8. The maximum bet amount a player can place when having an Active Sports Bonus is equal to the deposit amount. Should a player deposit more than the required amount to trigger the maximum bonus, the maximum bet amount a player can place equals the amount that triggers the maximum bonus. For example, for a Sports Bonus of 100% up to €100, if the player: a)


deposit is €50, the maximum bet amount is also €50, and b) deposits €150, the maximum bet amount is €100

I did play a 50 percent deposit bonus of max bonus of 100. Different then examples above with 100 percent deposit bonus. 200 euro was needed to receive 100 euro. I did bet 200 euro and less. I did read this term before playing and believe it or not I thought would they understand the implications of the term when it is not like the example 100 percent deposit bonus but 50 percent with 200 needed for 100 euro bonus. Most people are around 100 IQ and I understand it can be confusing for themselves. But this implies good faith. This rule seems like a trap and when not given an example of 50 percent bonus up to 100 euro which needs 200 euro I could not know they can not extrapolate the principle ' deposit needed to receive max bonus' to this 50 percent bonus. If I could bet only 100 still when 200 deposit is needed then the rule is just like most bookies who have a max bet size same as bonus size and not the bonus rule stated.

That term appears quite clear and unambiguous.

Not sure if I missed anything in all that text but it sounds like MADRE was correct to rule the book acted correctly according to their terms.

i mailed to betnflix that I would start a small court claim. Within a few days all 3 bookies have blocked my acces to sportbetting part of my account

What you did here is called invoking legal remedy and how they responded is a risk people take on when making threats to sue a company.

Once you say you are taking legal action, in Westminster based legal systems, the company then has the legal right to lock you out, give you no more info, even not give you the stuff they were legally required to provide prior to you invoking legal remedy.

They legally can lock your account, hide all your data from you, answer no more questions or communicate in any way.

You can only communicate with their legal representative from that point on.

Unfortunately, this is a policy quite a few bookmakers jump to use against you if threatened legally.

[Optional]

I do think it is shonky to have a max bet limit that is not software controlled and then confiscate winnings later using the term by the way. And would be frustrated too.

But they know what they are doing and it really does sound like they are legally in the right :\

[Flower88]

I asked family members and all the intelligent ones did agree with me ( fathers side of family) mother side( mostly around 100 IQ) mixed or most tought i did breach term. I understand it is tricky because they only give example of 100 percent deposit bonus. If you agree with them then you say the bonus term is the same as a max bet is same as bonus size. Which can be stated short and simple but they do not. Also if you agree you disqualify the quote 'deposit required to trigger max bonus'. You get this or you do not.

Madre does not look at the facts but procedure. They said themselves. There only function is being an authority( lager % of humanity follows authoritys automatically has been shown in experiments) and they judge blindly. There can not be found 1 case in which they side with the player on the internet. Other Adr( alternative dispute resolution) like the cogg there can be found such cases.

[Optional]

I asked family members and all the intelligent ones did agree with me ( fathers side of family). I understand it is tricky because they only give example of 100 percent deposit bonus. If you agree with them then you say the bonus term is the same as a max bet is same as bonus size. Which can be stated short and simple but they do not. Also if you agree you disqualify the quote 'deposit required to trigger max bonus'. You get this or you do not. I would not be suprised if most poeple do agree with you but most smart people do not.

It's not how I feel about it. I think it sucks that they would not work with you if you just made a genuine mistake. Obviously they could choose to recalculate your bet based on max value if it is just one or two and did not make a material difference to your overall balance and betting pattern.

But I have helped people in resolving problems like this with bookmakers for about 10 years now and do have plenty of experience with books who have terms like this one. And honestly, your interpretation of the wording is too much of a stretch to mount a serious argument with.

If a small claim does not cost much to lodge there, you can do that without a lawyer yourself quite likely. And at least put your argument to a court who will definitely be more law intelligent than me. I'd bet you dollars to donuts it won't be worth the time or frustration though.

[Flower88]

I do think it is shonky to have a max bet limit that is not software controlled and then confiscate winnings later using the term by the way. And would be frustrated too.

But they know what they are doing and it really does sound like they are legally in the right :\

They have been fined last year( 2 million) L.C.S. limited and L.C.S limited bookies advertise here but do not have a licence in the Netherlands. Before 2021 I could bet almost everywhere but now only with a licence and 1 percent that do not have it act like they do and still let you play or even advertise on same site with dutch licenced ones and in dutch language at onlinecasinospelen.com. And I found out they are above average shady not only this way but also with paying out. The ethical bookies without required license in the Netherlands don't avertise at onlinecasinospelen.com in Dutch and you can not sign up.

[Flower88]

It's not how I feel about it. I think it sucks that they would not work with you if you just made a genuine mistake. Obviously they could choose to recalculate your bet based on max value if it is just one or two and did not make a material difference to your overall balance and betting pattern.

But I have helped people in resolving problems like this with bookmakers for about 10 years now and do have plenty of experience with books who have terms like this one. And honestly, your interpretation of the wording is too much of a stretch to mount a serious argument with.

If a small claim does not cost much to lodge there, you can do that without a lawyer yourself quite likely. And at least put your argument to a court who will definitely be more law intelligent than me. I'd bet you dollars to donuts it won't be worth the time or frustration though.

We disagree partly but thanks for feeling with me( if that is correct english). I did read I just pay if I win in the small court claim. I can not choose the intelligence of a judge haha but I have good hope

BTW, The other 2 bookies did not specify what I did wrong other then sending me all bonus abuse terms and saying they take my winnings. Betnflix did send that too plus the mentioned general/basic bonus term. I think it is a tactic that allows for max flexibility. I can not proof it but betnflix probably contacted the other 2 bookies because know I have lost more winnings then I have in 7 years before combined. I wast just very lucky with my plays with the other 2 bookies. I won all my 10 100 euro bonus bets with betamigo ( 1400 + euro balance) en 21.red my account went down to 16 euro at 1 point but went to 1062 euro at the end.

[Flower88]

Maybe it is better to not include all 3 bookies from L.C.S limited in the same claim.

[bruloc]

So:

1 - You got a 50% bonus up to €100. (In this case, the amount that triggers the maximum bonus is €200)
2 - You deposited €200, so your max bet is €200.

If you placed wagers of €200 or less you are right about your claims.

[2Sweeet]

How much money did they steal? In 2021 I bought a Gun now I have 4 look to the parade thread on how I would react to this situation.

[Flower88]

So:

1 - You got a 50% bonus up to €100. (In this case, the amount that triggers the maximum bonus is €200)
2 - You deposited €200, so your max bet is €200.

If you placed wagers of €200 or less you are right about your claims.

Yes, it was like this and bets 200 or less

[Flower88]

How much money did they steal? In 2021 I bought a Gun now I have 4 look to the parade thread on how I would react to this situation.

In december with betnflix balance was 1407.92 and took 1207.92 and did 200 back in account.
In januari balance with 21.red 1062 and took 962 from me. Betsamigo balance was 1449 and did take 1349 away. With the amigos from betsamigo I won all my 10 bets of 100 euro ( cant remember it happened before) and they rewarded it with taking my money. Now that did happens I enjoy betting less and do it less and feel less safe placing bets. In 7 years before I very rarely had issues and now 3 from all the same provider in a month time.
962+1349+1207.92 is 3519.92. There are based on Malta. For this money you can make nice holidays. This feels worse then just losing this amount.

[Flower88]

A week ago I did send my claim to small court, no reaction Yet. I plan on updating you.