[Optional]

looks like bookmaker is ignoring their rules and i will need optional's help!

In this case, the decision was declared after the results were posted, according to our House Rules stated HERE all bets will stand in this case and the grade is correct

There was no decision over turned.

There was only one official set of results posted by NASCAR.

So I do not think that clause is relevant to your case.

[Fishhead]

This has a chance to be regarded as the greatest Nascar season ever.

If any of you folks can manage a way to get to race down the stretch, do it!!!

The boys are in INDY this weekend

[infotimbo]

There was only one official set of results posted by NASCAR.

as mentioned above, I'd say problem is more that Bookmaker has two rulesets which 100% contradict each other:

• "Bets are considered official on the outright winner & head to head matchups only when there is a final result from the governing body of the event."
  
  
• "Bets [...] are decided based on the podium positions on the day prizes are announced for the particular event, and any change in position after this time is not considered for settling purposes."

The 2nd rule is listed under "Head to Head racing matchups" only, so I'd say for outrights it must be the official result which counts - but for matchups it's impossible to say.

[Optional]

as mentioned above, I'd say problem is more that Bookmaker has two rulesets which 100% contradict each other:

• "Bets are considered official on the outright winner & head to head matchups only when there is a final result from the governing body of the event."
  
  
• "Bets [...] are decided based on the podium positions on the day prizes are announced for the particular event, and any change in position after this time is not considered for settling purposes."

The 2nd rule is listed under "Head to Head racing matchups" only, so I'd say for outrights it must be the official result which counts - but for matchups it's impossible to say.

I don't agree as I think that there was only one set of official podium positions announced that day. And it has not been changed.

But am I missing something here?

Are you saying that you have not been paid by Bookmaker based on Hamlin as race winner?

And Mike is saying he has not been paid based on Elliott being race winner?

[infotimbo]

Are you saying that you have not been paid by Bookmaker based on Hamlin as race winner?

I didn't place any bets at Bookmaker for that race.

In my opinion, "decided based on the podium positions" means provisional result, at the time of the podium presentation. That's also how basically all bookies settle F1 bets, for example.

Nascar doesn't have a real podium of course, so that would be another point to discuss, but normally "victory lane" should be close enough as an equivalent.

So I would think, based on that rule, results at this point count:



but as mentioned, it's clearly contradicted by the other rule.

[jjgold]

These type gradings rarely will go in the players way period no matter who is right or wrong or how a rule can be interpreted

[infotimbo]

What I meant to say is, that Bookmaker's motor sports rules aren't stringent to me, and definitely need clarification.

If I had a matchbet on Elliott tb Hamlin, I'd expect it to be settled as a winner based on the rule "Bets are considered official on the outright winner & head to head matchups only when there is a final result".

If I had a matchbet on Hamlin tb Elliott, I'd expect it to be settled as a winner based on the matchbet rule ""Bets [...] are decided based on the podium positions on the day prizes are announced for the particular event".

Imo both sides have a valid point, and this obviously shouldn't be the case.

For Outrights it's a different story, as only the first rule applies for those, meaning the winner should be Elliott. But on the other hand, this rule also comes with problems, as it's a general rule for motor sports, not just for Nascar. So if an F1 winner gets a 10s penalty 5 hours after the race (but before an official result is posted), this would mean the settlement needs to be overturned as well. And I don't think this is the intention of it.

[milwaukee mike]

the thing with bookmaker, is that for years i have been trying to get clarity on the post-race inspection rules... i am pretty sure i have had things graded against me in both directions

so recently, they updated their rules to CLEARLY include post-race inspections, and for some reason they aren't following it

i think that sentence about "only when there is a final result" has only been the case for a couple months

bookmaker has been fair in the past, hopefully they eventually do the right thing here

[pavyracer]

I called this out the other day when someone had an issue with track and field DQ.

Interested to see what NASCAR rules are for DQ for books.

[Fishhead]

Three scenarios with books

1. Rules state race winner declared after inspection..........ELLIOT WINNER

2. Book has zero rules on Nascar..................ELLIOT WINNER, as he is OFFICIAL WINNER

3. Book has rule stating winner is cross finish..........HAMLIN WINNER , however if I were manager at book with this rule would also pay the ELLIOT winner even though not obligated to do such as he was declared the official winner by Nascar shortly after race concluded.......... and moving forward have a different set of rules for Nascar aside from other racing events.



IMO, the correct rule for NASCAR is to grade the winner after the inspection, which is done almost immediately after each race.

[Fishhead]

Three scenarios with books

1. Rules state race winner declared after inspection..........ELLIOT WINNER

2. Book has zero rules on Nascar..................ELLIOT WINNER, as he is OFFICIAL WINNER

3. Book has rule stating winner is cross finish..........HAMLIN WINNER , however if I were manager at book with this rule would also pay the ELLIOT winner even though not obligated to do such as he was declared the official winner by Nascar shortly after race concluded.......... and moving forward have a different set of rules for Nascar aside from other racing events.



IMO, the correct rule for NASCAR is to grade the winner after the inspection, which is done almost immediately after each race.

On a side note, worked with Draftkings oddsmakers Mark Dufty and John Avello for 4-5 years as far back as 1986.................and although both may at times be criticized for a few of their oddsmaking practices at DK, it does not surprise me at all they are paying BOTH HAMLIN and ELLIOT as winners, as they are both extremely fair and customer orientated. My respect for both of them is as high as anyone's I've ever worked with in this business.

[pavyracer]

Three scenarios with books

1. Rules state race winner declared after inspection..........ELLIOT WINNER

2. Book has zero rules on Nascar..................ELLIOT WINNER, as he is OFFICIAL WINNER

3. Book has rule stating winner is cross finish..........HAMLIN WINNER , however if I were manager at book with this rule would also pay the ELLIOT winner even though not obligated to do such as he was declared the official winner by Nascar shortly after race concluded.......... and moving forward have a different set of rules for Nascar aside from other racing events.



IMO, the correct rule for NASCAR is to grade the winner after the inspection, which is done almost immediately after each race.

Good stuff Fishhead. Thanks for chiming in.

[CanuckG]

It's easy PR for Draftkings. It's not like they're taking large handle on these races.

[Fishhead]

It's easy PR for Draftkings. It's not like they're taking large handle on these races.

Fair statement

[HedgeHog]

It's easy PR for Draftkings. It's not like they're taking large handle on these races.

Doesn't matter what their handle is, it's a VERY generous gesture by DK to payout on all Nascar DQ possibilities. Can't you just accept that on face value instead of being a cynical dick?

[Fishhead]

Originally Posted by milwaukee mike
yeah see my "hamlin dq" thread

even though their auto racing rules state they grade the winner based on official result from the governing body... they graded hamlin the winner and didn't follow their own rules



Mike I take your word on this..................if true, CRIS should be paying on Elliot win.

[CanuckG]

Doesn't matter what their handle is, it's a VERY generous gesture by DK to payout on all Nascar DQ possibilities. Can't you just accept that on face value instead of being a cynical dick?

Are you a moron? Where am I being cynical? But if you can't see what they're doing you're as dumb as you usually are. These books pick and choose when they do this based on handle.

[CanuckG]

Draftkings is still a C- book with SB TECH trading for them. Fanduel miles ahead of them. I'm glad they refunded your $3 wager HH.

[HedgeHog]

Draftkings is still a C- book with SB TECH trading for them. Fanduel miles ahead of them. I'm glad they refunded your $3 wager HH.

Are YOU a moron? Why do you assume I play at DK? I don't have to play there to recognize a generous gesture w/o questioning their actions. You on the other hand are suggesting an ulterior motive on their part, in keeping with the cynical fukk you are.

[mcaulay777]

Quoting the Great Ken Patera,Win if you can lose if you must but always CHEAT!

[Fishhead]

Quoting the Great Ken Patera,Win if you can lose if you must but always CHEAT!

ELLIOT the OFFICIAL winner

EVERY BOOK IN THE WORLD SHOULD BE PAYING ELLIOT RACE FUTURES

[milwaukee mike]

"Bets are considered official on the outright winner & head to head matchups only when there is a final result from the governing body of the event."

reading that it's pretty clear elliott should have been the winner at bookmaker... why do they always wait until after the inspections to grade bets, if the official results don't matter

[Optional]

"Bets are considered official on the outright winner & head to head matchups only when there is a final result from the governing body of the event."

reading that it's pretty clear elliott should have been the winner at bookmaker... why do they always wait until after the inspections to grade bets, if the official results don't matter

I also think it is very clear.

And do not think the clause they sent you to justify the grading is relevant;

https://get.bookmaker.help/hc/en-us/...turned-results

[Fishhead]

"bets are considered official on the outright winner & head to head matchups only when there is a final result from the governing body of the event."

reading that it's pretty clear elliott should have been the winner at bookmaker... Why do they always wait until after the inspections to grade bets, if the official results don't matter

boom!!!!

[infotimbo]

I also think it is very clear.
And do not think the clause they sent you to justify the grading is relevant

I've had another discussion with Bookmaker after yesterday's F1 race, where Alonso was penalized after the podium, but before the official result. Personally, I still think those two rules contradict each other, so I asked for clarification:

- General rule: Bets are considered official on the outright winner & head to head matchups only when there is a final result from the governing body of the event

- Matchbet rule: Bets on Formula One (F1), Motor and Auto races are decided based on the podium positions on the day prizes are announced for the particular event, and any change in position after this time is not considered for settling purposes.

But according to the staff I talked to, "Bets are considered official [...]" isn't supposed to mean that settlement changes with a result change. It just means that the bet turns "official". For grading purposes, only the 2nd rule counts.

[milwaukee mike]

let's see if we get any nascar drama this year!

i'm still gonna play at bookmaker, hopefully they are at least consistent (since they didn't change their rules wording) and pay as they cross the line

[Fishhead]

let's see if we get any nascar drama this year!

i'm still gonna play at bookmaker, hopefully they are at least consistent (since they didn't change their rules wording) and pay as they cross the line

There will certainly be DRAMA

[pavyracer]

Can you bet on the over/under of crashes? I'd bet that.

[Fishhead]

Can you bet on the over/under of crashes? I'd bet that.

One can bet over/under CAUTION FLAGS at many shops

[Pigpen]

Would not surprise me if MGM only book in Vegas not stepping up and paying ELLIOT winners

Trash sportsbook form an ethical standpoint as well as in other ways.

The book's rule is graded on finish line crossing and you call it unethical? Not sure I am following this correctly.