1. #71
    JoeCool20
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    Quote Originally Posted by PunterLog View Post
    I said i'd try it out with Orbit, 9 wickets and Mountbet not direct account from Bet-IBC. I'd never use a service like Bet-IBC that provides accounts on others names. That's too risky.

    If it turns out that agent accounts via Orbit, 9 Wickets are also not safe, then it'd be crystal clear that you can't trust any account other than a real Betfair one. And yes i'd personally like to try it myself with clean wagering and see if i get paid or not. It's absolutely worth it for me.
    But there is no doubt that BET-IBC made up the fake account because the guy couldn't bet from Germany,

    which is the whole reason he used them, and then turned around and stole his money. Right?


    EDIT, No that is wrong, BET-IBC made up the fake account through an agent,

    because he is from Germany and can't bet, then Betfair found out and used it as

    a reason to steal the guys money. Right? Or are they just stealing his money and calling it

    a "business decision"?? LOL
    Last edited by JoeCool20; 10-20-19 at 06:37 PM.

  2. #72
    PunterLog
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeCool20 View Post
    But there is no doubt that BET-IBC made up the fake account because the guy couldn't bet from Germany,

    which is the whole reason he used them, and then turned around and stole his money. Right?
    I'd blame both BetFair and IBC.

    If Betfair were aware of Ibc's tactics and were ok with it, then betfair are to blame more than Ibc. Which by the look of things seems to be the case.

  3. #73
    JoeCool20
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    Quote Originally Posted by PunterLog View Post
    I'd blame both BetFair and IBC.

    If Betfair were aware of Ibc's tactics and were ok with it, then betfair are to blame more than Ibc. Which by the look of things seems to be the case.
    Sorry, I edited it. Read my edit. WHY is Betfair saying they all of a sudden stole the money?

    Nothing more than a "business decision"? LOL

  4. #74
    PunterLog
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeCool20 View Post
    Sorry, I edited it. Read my edit. WHY is Betfair saying they all of a sudden stole the money?

    Nothing more than a "business decision"? LOL
    The truth is one of two things

    1) Betfair knows that IBC opens accounts on other's names and still is ok with IBC doing it.

    2) Betfair doesn't know IBC does this and hence IBC are to blame solely.

    Looking at the way ************ (Bet-ibc's partner when it comes to offering direct betfair accounts) promotes themselves about offering "Real" betfair accounts both on their website and twitter feed, i think that Betfair knows about this stuff and selectively seizes funds from winning players.
    Last edited by Optional; 10-20-19 at 08:06 PM. Reason: removed link. we don't help people find that.
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  5. #75
    RedApples
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    Two things are really bothering me in this thread.

    First is the idea that the OP blackmailed bet-ibc, and the 2nd is the idea that there's some sort of issue with the OP calling what bet-ibc is doing a scam.

    Both notions are absurd, and I'm surprised to see both originating from a Mod.

    I get that bet-ibc said that the OP was blackmailing them, but how can you support that? Not only was it supported, but it was reported back to the OP as a good defense for why the OP wasn't being dealt with. As if he actually did step out of bounds. Letting others know that they are operating a scam is not blackmail. The OP is rightfully owed the money by the party that he is requesting it from. To call it blackmail is absurd.

    I can't believe Optional asked if the OP knowingly took part in the scam if he's calling what bet-ibc is doing as a scam. The scam is the way in which the OP isn't getting paid. I mean, I thought that was what Sportsbookreview was for. To mitigate issues with people/books who try to scam. Historically when you bet with an offshore Sportsbook (because it isn't legal to do it in your Country), and they don't pay you, you need to figure out a way so that they will. You either let others know that they are a scam, or you turn a blind eye. In letting others know that its a scam you are preventing them from doing the same to other people. Just because you engaged in something that wasn't permitted by some technicality, doesn't mean that you weren't scammed. The OP was scammed in the same way that any contract is broken by means of false pretenses.

    Anyways, again I just don't get it. The OP is getting ran over. bet-ibc owes it to the OP to have a much better explanation at minimum. At this point he is getting scammed. Simply not paying him and saying they don't want to deal with him because of blackmail is the biggest cop out ever. They deserve all of the heat they've gotten and anyone supporting these actions is brainless.
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  6. #76
    Brooklyn
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    Did BET-IBC recently remove an option to register a direct Betfair account?

    Because "Betfair account" is not listed under "OPEN ACCOUNT" any more.


    If it would be still possible to open it, I think I have an idea how to get an official and direct answer from Betfair,
    to make it clear what they think and feel about those "fake Betfair accounts" opened through BET-IBC.

  7. #77
    infotimbo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brooklyn View Post
    Did BET-IBC recently remove an option to register a direct Betfair account?
    Because "Betfair account" is not listed under "OPEN ACCOUNT" any more.
    I didn't check recently, but I as far as I can remember, they stopped offering Betfair accounts three or four years ago. Later on they became available again, but only under certain conditions (high rollover, VPN use etc), and they never advertised it.
    Last edited by infotimbo; 10-21-19 at 02:35 AM.

  8. #78
    arie1985
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedApples View Post
    Anyways, again I just don't get it. The OP is getting ran over. bet-ibc owes it to the OP to have a much better explanation at minimum. At this point he is getting scammed. Simply not paying him and saying they don't want to deal with him because of blackmail is the biggest cop out ever. They deserve all of the heat they've gotten and anyone supporting these actions is brainless.
    Totally seconded.
    Bet-IBC has done the bare minimum here trying to help the OP, this is unacceptable if you ask me.
    I also don't think Optional should have attacked the OP here neither - the ones to blame is Bet-IBC firstly before anyone else for incompetence!

  9. #79
    Optional
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedApples View Post
    I can't believe Optional asked if the OP knowingly took part in the scam
    Sarkarmi was saying it was a scam, that he wanted to take them down over in revenge.

    I replied to him that if YOU think it is a scam, then surely you chose to take part in it.


    Plus, anyone who thinks they can choose to sign up for a service, accept the rules, play there for many years, and then start screaming scam when the book follows those exact terms, is a fool who should be ridiculed!

    So tell me, do you really think Sarkarmi was scammed by the broker here?

    Before you answer, as you don't seem to have much clue about this, I will help you out and post the VERY FIRST rule shown on the Bet-IBC terms page;

    General Conditions

    You hereby acknowledge and affirm that:

    1. BET-IBC shall not be held liable under any circumstances for any technical or human errors that might occur at any and all bookmakers, as well as any actions they may undertake, including - but not limited to: delayed cashouts, delayed bet settlement, freezing of funds, market closures, voiding of bets. For the consequences of any such action to your account, you - as the owner - shall bear the full responsibility.






    Also @ Sarkarmi and Arie who nominated the post I am responding too. Do you believe Bet-IBC scammed Sarkarmi? Because thats the suggestion from your nominations.

    @Sarkarmi, you seem to be changing your position from where you said they had not scammed you a few posts above



    People who take zero personal responsibility for your choices are a blight on our industry. You guys work against the rest of us players basically.

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  10. #80
    Optional
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    Repeating an ignored question and now posing it to RedApple and Arie as well...

    Quote Originally Posted by Optional View Post
    I guess you don't care that the same thing could happen to other users like yourself.

    But imagine you are still there doing what you have been doing for years and some other turkey took it upon themselves to get your account suspended, just because theirs was?

    Would you wonder what the point of them doing that even was?

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  11. #81
    Poisec
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    I remember using Bet IBC back in 2016 to have a direct Betfair account, the fact that you get an account in someone else's name is super fishy already, placed a few bets, won a bit and withdrew immediately (ridiculous fees too).
    Bet IBC are linked with acc-ex (probably the same people) who offer Bet365 accounts. Stay away from these guys.


    If you are a consistent winner then why not move temporarily to a country where you can get a proof of residence and have a direct and legal Betfair account? Best thing to do IMO.

  12. #82
    JoeCool20
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedApples View Post
    I can't believe Optional asked if the OP knowingly took part in the scam if he's calling what bet-ibc is doing as a scam. The scam is the way in which the OP isn't getting paid. I mean, I thought that was what Sportsbookreview was for. To mitigate issues with people/books who try to scam.

    LOL I used to feel the same way. I used to bash the crap out of the guy for some of the things he would post!


    But now I realize that it is the his job on here to "take up" for and "make excuses" for the sportsbooks

    because they are the ones that pay money to this site. So I laid off bashing him. Even though some of his

    "attempted excuses" are absurdly ridiculous, once you realize that his job is to try and mitigate all the lying and cheating

    and stealing that these S-books do to people, then you can have a little sympathy for him.

    But yes sometimes it is like the Sunday comics to get on here and see some of the excuses he comes up with

    even when it is painfully obvious to a 9 year old that one of these S-books has cheated somebody or blatantly

    stole a player's money.
    Last edited by JoeCool20; 10-22-19 at 10:15 AM.

  13. #83
    Optional
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    *sigh*

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  14. #84
    arie1985
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optional View Post
    Also @ Sarkarmi and Arie who nominated the post I am responding too. Do you believe Bet-IBC scammed Sarkarmi? Because thats the suggestion from your nominations.
    I'm happy to answer this.
    I'm a full believer in common sense, and for me common sense comes before the judgement itself i.e. before looking at the black & white terms and conditions or rules of a given incident, I am looking for common sense. I believe many judges do the same before they give their judgement - you have (a) an incident, what happened practically - and you have (b) the black & white side of things, the rules aka the terms and conditions.

    Now, before looking at Bet-IBC's terms and conditions - I believe Bet-IBC is to be blamed here for several serious issues:

    (1) Negligence - They failed to communicate properly with the user, they failed to keep him posted and just tried to run the clock so he would "forget"about it.
    (2) Incompetence - they in my opinion, by all means, did not try their best to resolve the conflict with BetFair, they did not try to fight it or ask for other options to resolve the issue with BetFair, they simply shook off any type of responsibility that is linked to them.
    (3) In my opinion from the look of this it can be shown, very clearly, that Bet-IBC doesn't care about its customers, its first goal is to profit and only then, if necessary, they will do the bare minimum to assist their customers.

    Now would I call it a "scam"? With that I agree with you, Optional, that the word scam, might be too extreme, however with an attitude like this from a betting agent - I personally wouldn't go near them anytime soon, and I actually used them in the past and I documented it as well in the forum, but with their high fee structure and the way they operate - I'd definitely put (and raise) a red flag on their business - that's my opinion.
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  15. #85
    arie1985
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poisec View Post
    If you are a consistent winner then why not move temporarily to a country where you can get a proof of residence and have a direct and legal Betfair account? Best thing to do IMO.
    I don't know many "consistent" winners, I've heard of many traders who back/lay (buy/sell) horses or other things before the event in order to profit from it before the event has even started ... but turning BetFair into a "day job" - I personally wouldn't move into a new country to do it unless I'd know for sure that that is what I'm going to do at least for the next 3-4 years, and I feel like it's quite hard to rely on BetFair as your only income ... especially if you add the gambling aspect into it (i.e. randomness) then your income depends on luck, any residence or other things won't help you out here.

  16. #86
    Optional
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    Quote Originally Posted by arie1985 View Post

    I'm happy to answer this.
    I'm a full believer in common sense, and for me common sense comes before the judgement itself i.e. before looking at the black & white terms and conditions or rules of a given incident, I am looking for common sense. I believe many judges do the same before they give their judgement - you have (a) an incident, what happened practically - and you have (b) the black & white side of things, the rules aka the terms and conditions.

    Now, before looking at Bet-IBC's terms and conditions - I believe Bet-IBC is to be blamed here for several serious issues:

    (1) Negligence - They failed to communicate properly with the user, they failed to keep him posted and just tried to run the clock so he would "forget"about it.
    (2) Incompetence - they in my opinion, by all means, did not try their best to resolve the conflict with BetFair, they did not try to fight it or ask for other options to resolve the issue with BetFair, they simply shook off any type of responsibility that is linked to them.
    (3) In my opinion from the look of this it can be shown, very clearly, that Bet-IBC doesn't care about its customers, its first goal is to profit and only then, if necessary, they will do the bare minimum to assist their customers.

    Now would I call it a "scam"? With that I agree with you, Optional, that the word scam, might be too extreme, however with an attitude like this from a betting agent - I personally wouldn't go near them anytime soon, and I actually used them in the past and I documented it as well in the forum, but with their high fee structure and the way they operate - I'd definitely put (and raise) a red flag on their business - that's my opinion.
    I agree this is a tough term. But they justify it by saying that if the rule was not this way, users take advantage of them by running errant bots, or trying to launder or pass money through Betfair knowing that they are doing it risk free in comparison with them using a direct Betfair account the same way.

    That seems like a pretty good explanation to me?


    And apart from that, if a player seems reasonable and discrete, then as I said to start with IBC have been known to look after them whatever the terms say.

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  17. #87
    arie1985
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optional View Post
    I agree this is a tough term. But they justify it by saying that if the rule was not this way, users take advantage of them by running errant bots, or trying to launder or pass money through Betfair knowing that they are doing it risk free in comparison with them using a direct Betfair account the same way.

    That seems like a pretty good explanation to me?


    And apart from that, if a player seems reasonable and discrete, then as I said to start with IBC have been known to look after them whatever the terms say.
    I once asked for a withdrawal via Bet-IBC and my account was short of a few euros because of a pending horse racing bet (that was settled within minutes) - then Bet-IBC charged me additional 5% for the withdrawal for the attempt of trying to withdraw balance that wasn't available in my account (it was but it just took longer for that horse race to settle).

    I personally think charging 5% of the entire withdrawal amount is not okay - so I cannot really recommend or say Bet-IBC is the best one out there.

    I am not sure if your definition of "running errant bots, or trying to launder or pass money through Betfair" is 100% correct, it sounds to me like the user (OP) was making genuine and legitimate bets and wasn't passing funds to other accounts (if he did then by all means he needs to "pay" for this).

    I would expect Bet-IBC for their high fee structure to take at least 2-3 additional steps towards the player, the way they communicated with the OP in my opinion was unacceptable neither.

  18. #88
    Optional
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    I agree Arie. Their fees are way too high and they have too many different types for my taste too. But some people want the service even with those fees, and this complaint was not about if their terms compare well to other brokers, just if they had a right to act as they did.

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  19. #89
    Optional
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    Quote Originally Posted by arie1985 View Post
    I am not sure if your definition of "running errant bots, or trying to launder or pass money through Betfair" is 100% correct, it sounds to me like the user (OP) was making genuine and legitimate bets and wasn't passing funds to other accounts (if he did then by all means he needs to "pay" for this).
    Realized that I had better add. I was not suggesting that I think the OP did any of those things. He sounds genuine to me too.

    That was just why the rule was needed to be as it is. To prevent attracting or rewarding people trying to do those things.

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  20. #90
    arie1985
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optional View Post
    Realized that I had better add. I was not suggesting that I think the OP did any of those things. He sounds genuine to me too.

    That was just why the rule was needed to be as it is. To prevent attracting or rewarding people trying to do those things.
    Yes, I agree with this, the rules are there in place, but Bet-IBC control the identity of the "real" account holder (from BetFair's perspective) and I'm not sure they did their best to fight the issue with BetFair, if I had to grade their efforts in this regards it would be 3 out of 10 at best. That's my main issue with them (and not their terms).

  21. #91
    JoeCool20
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    Let me ask optional or anyone else this: I am unfamiliar with this "AGENT" crap!!

    Doesn't Bet IBC make "fake accounts" at sportsbooks for people in countries where wagering is illegal?

    And then charge them an arm and a leg to place the bets for them and make deposits and get withdrawals?

    So in that regard you can't "blame" the OP and say: "You knew what you were doing." Because the whole point of

    Bet-IBC is to make an (fake) account on somebody's behalf because they can't open an account themselves!

    Isn't this Bet IBC's business model? "If your country is not allowed and you can't bet at a S-book legally,

    then call us and we will make you an (fake) account and move your money and place your bets for you for a giant fee."


    Isn't that what they do?

  22. #92
    RedApples
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeCool20 View Post
    LOL I used to feel the same way. I used to bash the crap out of the guy for some of the things he would post!


    But now I realize that it is the his job on here to "take up" for and "make excuses" for the sportsbooks

    because they are the ones that pay money to this site. So I laid off bashing him. Even though some of his

    "attempted excuses" are absurdly ridiculous, once you realize that his job is to try and mitigate all the lying and cheating

    and stealing that these S-books do to people, then you can have a little sympathy for him.

    But yes sometimes it is like the Sunday comics to get on here and see some of the excuses he comes up with

    even when it is painfully obvious to a 9 year old that one of these S-books has cheated somebody or blatantly

    stole a player's money.
    I legitimately cannot even respond to his last few posts because he is conflating so many issues and making so little sense that if I respond to them then we will go down some ridiculous rabbit hole he's creating. I will let what I have written on the issue at hand to stand for itself. His postulates are mind numbing. He is doing a huge disservice to this entire situation.

    This post here is not to make a personal attack in any way. I just have really no ability to respond to any of that and I don't want it to be looked at as my not wanting to answer questions. There is just a difference between being constructive and staying on point, and not being constructive and answering questions of scenarios that are too off point to address.

  23. #93
    ShanghaiBeijing1
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeCool20 View Post
    Let me ask optional or anyone else this: I am unfamiliar with this "AGENT" crap!!

    Doesn't Bet IBC make "fake accounts" at sportsbooks for people in countries where wagering is illegal?

    And then charge them an arm and a leg to place the bets for them and make deposits and get withdrawals?

    So in that regard you can't "blame" the OP and say: "You knew what you were doing." Because the whole point of

    Bet-IBC is to make an (fake) account on somebody's behalf because they can't open an account themselves!

    Isn't this Bet IBC's business model? "If your country is not allowed and you can't bet at a S-book legally,

    then call us and we will make you an (fake) account and move your money and place your bets for you for a giant fee."


    Isn't that what they do?
    I think facilitating access to betting markets is probably a more accurate way of describing the bettor/agent/sbook/exchange relationship. They do this through many different methods, including the one the OP found himself using.

    It's not surprising to me that he would not have known what sort of risk/exposure this created for him. To have your money seized with no explanation is obviously always an incredible situation. With that said, the only thing you can fault the OP for is not performing any sort of due diligence against BET-IBC. This is his only critical error IMO.
    Last edited by ShanghaiBeijing1; 10-23-19 at 03:51 PM. Reason: Forgot to include quote

  24. #94
    JoeCool20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShanghaiBeijing1 View Post
    I think facilitating access to betting markets is probably a more accurate way of describing the bettor/agent/sbook/exchange relationship. They do this through many different methods, including the one the OP found himself using.

    It's not surprising to me that he would not have known what sort of risk/exposure this created for him. To have your money seized with no explanation is obviously always an incredible situation. With that said, the only thing you can fault the OP for is not performing any sort of due diligence against BET-IBC. This is his only critical error IMO.
    Thank you!

  25. #95
    dealer wins
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    I use an agent to bet with Pinnacle (PS3838 or whatever it is these days) I have been allocated an account with letters and numbers.

    Pinnacle obviously know its via their agent as they would I am sure set the whole thing up to operate like that, and are happy to accept bets knowing and agreeing that the agent will verify my identity and ID etc.

    This surely must have happened with Bet-IBC when they signed a contract with Betfair to supply them with their clients accounts, and Betfair surely must have been aware of the fact that these clients accounts would be in false names as part of the setup.

    If they wernt then Bet-IBC need to pay the player, if they were then Betfair needs to pay the player, or supply irrefutable proof that there was a funds passing incident. This would be easy to prove as the bet would be sizeable, and on a quiet market at way out of line odds, and the funds receiver would attempt to withdraw said funds.
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  26. #96
    Poisec
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    Quote Originally Posted by dealer wins View Post
    I use an agent to bet with Pinnacle (PS3838 or whatever it is these days) I have been allocated an account with letters and numbers.

    Pinnacle obviously know its via their agent as they would I am sure set the whole thing up to operate like that, and are happy to accept bets knowing and agreeing that the agent will verify my identity and ID etc.

    This surely must have happened with Bet-IBC when they signed a contract with Betfair to supply them with their clients accounts, and Betfair surely must have been aware of the fact that these clients accounts would be in false names as part of the setup.

    If they wernt then Bet-IBC need to pay the player, if they were then Betfair needs to pay the player, or supply irrefutable proof that there was a funds passing incident. This would be easy to prove as the bet would be sizeable, and on a quiet market at way out of line odds, and the funds receiver would attempt to withdraw said funds.
    Pinnacle accounts through agents are legit, I mean it's obvious the brokers have an agreement with Pinnacle, on the other hand what makes you believe Betfair are aware of what Bet IBC do? do you really think they have any sort of mutual agreement?

  27. #97
    pythonic
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    Betfair may be aware of and tolerate this fake account scheme to some degree, but it would be crazy of them to enter into a written agreement about fake accounts.
    That's a different story to normal agents where you have KYC procedures and so on.

  28. #98
    Optional
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    Bet-IBC have contacted SBR to say that Betfair have been back in touch with them and say that they have finished their investigation and have now decided to allow withdrawal of the account funds.

    IBC say they have sent the money directly to the OP.

    Please confirm Sarkarmi.
    Points Awarded:

    PunterLog gave Optional 2 Betpoint(s) for this post.

    Nomination(s):
    This post was nominated 1 time . To view the nominated thread please click here. People who nominated: sarkami

    $20
    Angelman
    donation 02/17/2020

    SBR Bash
    Punta Cana
    Attendee 2/4/2017


  29. #99
    ouzoun
    ouzoun's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 10-21-12
    Posts: 203
    Betpoints: 7123

    Going public makes a difference.
    Congrats to everyone.

  30. #100
    sarkami
    sarkami's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 06-29-18
    Posts: 27
    Betpoints: 372

    [case solved]


    Yes, it is true, i can confirm this. Finally.


    Yesterday evening Bet-Ibc sent me my money,


    thank you Bet-Ibc!


    And thank you all for believing in me!

  31. #101
    dealer wins
    dealer wins's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 02-03-09
    Posts: 812
    Betpoints: 11669

    This sums up how completely rotten this industry is. The OP is completely innocent, yet he is told his account is closed and 5500 confiscated without any reason or justification whatsoever. Only because the OP posted on a big forum he has now been absolved of any wrongdoing and received his funds back.

    The whole thing stinks if you ask me!!

  32. #102
    Poisec
    Poisec's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 07-22-18
    Posts: 1,145
    Betpoints: 2838

    Quote Originally Posted by dealer wins View Post
    This sums up how completely rotten this industry is. The OP is completely innocent, yet he is told his account is closed and 5500 confiscated without any reason or justification whatsoever. Only because the OP posted on a big forum he has now been absolved of any wrongdoing and received his funds back.

    The whole thing stinks if you ask me!!
    This.

  33. #103
    RedApples
    sup
    RedApples's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 10-02-18
    Posts: 674
    Betpoints: 1285

    Quote Originally Posted by sarkami View Post
    [case solved]


    Yes, it is true, i can confirm this. Finally.


    Yesterday evening Bet-Ibc sent me my money,


    thank you Bet-Ibc!


    And thank you all for believing in me!
    You're welcome.

  34. #104
    king7811
    king7811's Avatar Become A Pro!
    Join Date: 08-19-16
    Posts: 142
    Betpoints: 487

    Glad your issue was solved!

    I'm glad your issue was solved! Personally I never had any problems with BET-IBC. I mainly use their VIP platform for weekend bets, just good fun. But I can see how it may be different if you have single accounts with the bookmakers.

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