PSA: Pinnacle Charges Surprise Fees when Withdrawing

**jtoler** · 02-23-18, 07:55 PM

Sounds pretty comical. Wonder why they took the "unnecessary deposit" thenl

**imblake3** · 02-23-18, 08:09 PM

I know, a friend and I were saying it is actually funny how ridiculous of a stance they are taking...but it's definitely not $300 worth of entertainment!

**Krashman** · 02-23-18, 08:23 PM

I ran into this rule back in 2013, after Skrill pulled out of Canadian gambling market and I dumped my Skrill balance into Pinny which already had a healthy balance.

However they gave me the option to withdraw only my original balance plus winnings, then continue wagering with the 'unnecessary' deposits until rollover was completed and was allowed to withdraw them eventually.

**Foxx** · 02-24-18, 01:00 AM

Interesting. I can see their side of it on one hand, but there should be a warning when making the deposit so players are not caught by surprise.

So what was the reason for the unnecessary deposit?

**imblake3** · 02-24-18, 01:53 AM

Originally posted by Foxx

Interesting. I can see their side of it on one hand, but there should be a warning when making the deposit so players are not caught by surprise.

So what was the reason for the unnecessary deposit?

I agree that rollovers make complete sense so the business doesn’t incur transaction processing expenses for people who aren’t betting. But I far exceeded the rollover, and this “unnecessary deposit” rule is a very unique requirement that isn’t explained anywhere in their terms. I’m not sure how they would expect a customer to know about it before they try to withdraw. Here is part of the email chain that helps explain it:

Let's take a hypothetical example where a customer deposits $1,000. This customer bets many games over the course of a month, with a total risked amount of $12,000 and a profit of $100. Clearly this customer has met the rollover requirement. The customer then deposits an extra $900, bringing his bankroll up to $2,000. Regardless of how much he bets, there is no possible way this customer can meet the rollover criteria unless he either:
A. loses enough of his bankroll to exhaust his initial deposit + winnings of $1,100
B. places simultaneous bets large enough to bet his entire bankroll
As this example illustrates, that is a requirement that no reasonable person would assume.

I deposited additional funds because I was betting a very large amount daily (sometimes above $50,000). If I were to have one bad day, that could significantly drain my bankroll, so I needed to have additional bankroll available to continue betting. I would think Pinnacle wants its customers to continue betting after a day of losses.

**Optional** · 02-24-18, 05:43 AM

It's the one thing they are funny about there.

Too many banking transactions in or out.

Can't really see how an extra fee is justified if you really have turned over all of them 3 times before making a withdraw request though. That sounds strange. I'd bet their system does not think you have.

**Krashman** · 02-27-18, 01:05 AM

This was the email I received in 2013, the rule falls under general rule 30 in the T&C:

Dear Client,

Your withdrawal has been declined as your last deposits of (deleted) were deemed unnecessary.

Please understand the wagers are calculated from the previous balance before each deposit made. This previous amount has to be completely depleted before the additional deposit is even considered.

If all your wagers are continuously made within the amount of the previous balance, then the deposit amount keeps getting carried along with any winnings as it was never required to begin with.

Please refer to our General rule 30 where we state that any deposit made to an account which is not rolled (bet) one time will incur both the withdrawal fee and a 5% processing fee.

At this time, according to your current balance ( deleted ), the following options are available to you:

A - Withdraw your current winning amount of ( USD ********* ) without fees, and leave the unused deposit amount ( USD ********* ) to wager further.

B - Withdraw current balance in full ( USD ********* ) and pay the withdrawal fee ( USD 15 ) and the 5% processing fee ( USD ********* ).

C- Your next wager(s) should be made is such a way that it includes both the winning amount plus the additional deposit amounts before winnings. This would allow a full balance withdrawal without the processing fees.

Please keep in mind for future reference, if your balance can already support any additional wagers, then is it not necessary to keep adding deposits which will not be used, as they will incur fees.

Kind regards,

Customer Service Department
Pinnacle Sports

**HeeeHAWWWW** · 02-27-18, 08:46 AM

They really should have this displayed on the withdraw page. "Make $XXX more bets to complete rollover for free withdrawal."

**dynamite140** · 02-27-18, 02:00 PM

This rule is ridiculous on so many levels. For example you deposit 10k into pinnacle. Rollover is 3x now as oppose to 5x. So 30k in rollover. Let say after 10k in rollover, you have about 2k left. Well you need to deposit more. Well they first you need to wager the entire first 2k first before you deposit more into the account. The issue comes when let say your balance is then something ridiculous like 50.22. Well you are going to make a few 500 dollars wagers to make it simple. The issue here is they want you to wager the rest of the 50.22 first instead of depositing say another 5k first and then making the wager. I mean you want someone to risk 50.22 to win like 45.45 and then when they deposit 5000 again, put like 410 to win 400 etc on that previous wager and then make the rest of your bets? Obviously someone with that balance of 50.22 would then deposit around 5000 or 4949.18 so they can have a balance of 5k there to make it simple.

They already have the 3x rollover and before they had 5x rollover. No books make you rollover more than 1x unless its for a bonus.

In the OP situation, he wagered 600k total and deposited around 60k total. So basically he rolled it over 10x. The other issue comes is let say your balance is 50.22 and you cleared 15k of the 30k rollover on the 10k deposit. Now he then deposits another 5k. Well if that first wager with the 50.22 in the account wins... then well you now cleared 15050.22 in the rollover and have to clear the remaining 30000 left from the next 10k deposit. But let say you lose that 50.22 wager. Well according to them, your previous rollover does not count and its 30000 only etc. So imagine you make 6 wagers total for 550 each. Well if you were to lose any wager, which one would you rather lose? The one where you wagered 50.22 to win 47.50 with the remaining balance left and the 460 to win 400 to make a full 500 dollar wager? Or you rather lose the other 525 to win 500 bets if you had to pick? Obviously you rather lose the wager that is broken down in 2 parts with the 50.22... because that deducts 15k off your rollover.

Now imagine you had something ridiculous like 1 dollar in your balance after you cleared 10k off your 30k rollover. You going to deposit 5k or 10k. Well if thats how they do things, you might as well tell pinnacle just take that 1 dollar off so i dont have to clear another 20k in rollover because im going to deposit another 5k or 10k soon.

The thing that im still unsure of is do you need to wager your remaining amount first before you make a deposit. For example imagine someone has 1.10 in their account. They going to deposit 1k to make a few wagers. Well if you deposit first and then make your wagers with a 1001.10 balance, apparently your rollover never ends assuming your first wager of at least 1.10 wins? Thus if you are planning to make any more wagers, you have to make sure your balance is zero first? Now what happens if your balance is somehow 0.25. Well the min bet is at least 1 or 2 dollars i believe.

Pinnacle should fix this issue by saying 3x rollover regardless even if you deposit when you have a sufficient balance. You just add the rollover. The only exception is obviously if your balance goes exactly to 0. But when your balance is under 10 dollars or even 100 and your are betting a lot more than that, there are lot of issues with their policy on this.

**Optional** · 02-27-18, 04:22 PM

Originally posted by dynamite140

Well they first you need to wager the entire first 2k first before you deposit more into the account.

You have misunderstood. This is not correct.

If you have 2k available balance and deposit another 2k to make a 4k bet, that's just fine.

If you deposit an additional 5k then only bet 2k of it before asking for a withdrawal, they will impose the rule.

**dynamite140** · 05-26-18, 07:17 PM

I understand why pinnacle did this because it was due to players depositing and withdrawing for the ewallets. Thus there would be players that deposit 5 figures and then withdraw after rolling over it once. Then they deposit again for those ewallet rewards. However, the thing is pinnacle is excluded from ewallet bonuses. The only thing would be for them to get vip status which is probably the reason.

However, this rule is still very bad for many reasons. First off, if you have a guy that just wants to make one wager... whether its for 10 dollars or 1000 dollars or 10000 dollars etc, let say they bet 1100 to win 1000 on a game. If they lose, well they have 0 in their balance now. But if they win the bet, their balance is 2100. Now they want to cash out but they cannot do this because the rollover is 3300. So basically that is telling them you going to have to make 3 wagers of that size if you want to cashout unless you want to pay that withdraw fee. No recreational or your average Joe would want to deal with that. For ppl that bet a lot, this is not that big of a deal. What pinnacle should do is have a 1x rollover like normal. However, if any player is seen abusing the deposit/withdraw thing, then they would have the 3x rollover or 5x. For example someone deposits 10k. Make 10k in wagers. Now withdraw. Then deposits 10000 in a few days. That obviously is a no no. Now if this person deposits again in a few weeks etc, that should be no problem. The other thing is say someone deposit 10000 dollars in their account. Make a few $500 wagers. Then their balance is still sufficient as its around 8500-11500 etc. Now if they decide to deposit 5k or 10k again etc, well that is a no no and would definitely make that player 3x or even 5x their deposit.

The issue here is for the regular player who are only making 1 bet or a few bets, this 3x rollover is ridiculous. No sportsbook out there that is an A or better requires you to rollover your deposit more than once unless you take a bonus. Many people would deposit funds into a book and make 1 wager and then withdraw if they win.