What to do to have a correct in-play betting service with Pinbet88 ????

[tristan]

I'm posting a new thread because i'm not far from being desesperate about Pinbet88 in-play lines for tennis matches... I have, for the last weeks, contacted several times my agent (Asian Connect) to signal them an important issue concerning in-play lines for tennis on Pinbet88:
When a tennis match is starting, in-play lines normally are immediately displayed. On old Pinnacle website for example, in-play lines are displayed from the very first point. But on Pinbet88, things are different: in-play lines are most often displayed 15 minutes after the start of the match !? Of course there are matches too when lines are displayed at the beginning,as on old Pinnacle. But unfortunately, most often lines are displayed very very late, much later than on old Pinnacle for sure. Is it a technical issue or a will from Pinbet88 to propose lines later for customers using agents??

So as i told before i contacted several times Asianconnect for the last weeks asking them to forward to Pinnacle. They forwarded the issue, and i received then an update by email , AC telling me that according to Pinnacle they had found what the issue was and it had been fixed now. I was pleased to read it, but unfortunately that was false, no issue was fixed at all: in-play lines for tennis on Pinbet88 continue being displayed much later than on old Pinnacle.

So i contacted AsianConnect again, explaining there was always the same issue with in-play lines, tennis. They answered me Pinnacle needed screenshots to see the problem exactly.I didn't really see the need of screenshots, i mean i said them in-play lines were very long to be displayed on Pinbet88 compared with pinnacle, they could easily have verified it, however i sent them 2 screenshots : one from old Pinnacle in-play lines and the other from Pinbet88 in-play lines at the same moment. To show them the problem i took the example of match Donaldson / Goffin, which was displayed in-play on old Pinnacle, but not on Pinbet88 (we were at the beginning of the 3rd game of set 1 when i took screenshots...Pinbet88 started displaying lines at the beginning of game 5...)
I sent the 2 screenshots, AsianConnect noticed indeed the match appeared on old Pinnacl but not on Pinbet88, they forwarded to Pinnacle... And i let you guess what was Pinnacle answer...???

They said they could not take these 2 screenshots into consideration because there was a sligh difference of time on the "refresh button" between the 2 screenshots (about 2 seconds, as i made the second screenshot 2 seconds after the first 1), so for them that doesn't show/proove anything, time on "refresh button" should be exactly the same... Are they serious??? Do they laugh at me?? Is it so complicated for them to understand that tennis in-play lines on Pinbet88 are displayed much too late? Don't they understand or don't they rather want to fix the issue?

I keep much money on Pinbet88, much money, as i especially appreciate live betting for tennis, but impossible to use that money with their catastrophic service! Has someone any reasonable explanation??Why are in-play lines displayed later on Pinbet88? And why do they obviously have no will to fix it??

[rangerz2478]

This is not just tennis, this is with all of their ingame odds. They will show them even though the odds are off the board. So you click on odds that show available and they say "unavailable" even though they are still up.

[dealer wins]

Its the same nn pre-match lines, they stay there until you click on the sport again, rather than disappear when the match starts. Problem number 1657 I believe.

[Optional]

I'm posting a new thread because i'm not far from being desesperate about Pinbet88 in-play lines for tennis matches... I have, for the last weeks, contacted several times my agent (Asian Connect) to signal them an important issue concerning in-play lines for tennis on Pinbet88:
When a tennis match is starting, in-play lines normally are immediately displayed. On old Pinnacle website for example, in-play lines are displayed from the very first point. But on Pinbet88, things are different: in-play lines are most often displayed 15 minutes after the start of the match !? Of course there are matches too when lines are displayed at the beginning,as on old Pinnacle. But unfortunately, most often lines are displayed very very late, much later than on old Pinnacle for sure. Is it a technical issue or a will from Pinbet88 to propose lines later for customers using agents??

So as i told before i contacted several times Asianconnect for the last weeks asking them to forward to Pinnacle. They forwarded the issue, and i received then an update by email , AC telling me that according to Pinnacle they had found what the issue was and it had been fixed now. I was pleased to read it, but unfortunately that was false, no issue was fixed at all: in-play lines for tennis on Pinbet88 continue being displayed much later than on old Pinnacle.

So i contacted AsianConnect again, explaining there was always the same issue with in-play lines, tennis. They answered me Pinnacle needed screenshots to see the problem exactly.I didn't really see the need of screenshots, i mean i said them in-play lines were very long to be displayed on Pinbet88 compared with pinnacle, they could easily have verified it, however i sent them 2 screenshots : one from old Pinnacle in-play lines and the other from Pinbet88 in-play lines at the same moment. To show them the problem i took the example of match Donaldson / Goffin, which was displayed in-play on old Pinnacle, but not on Pinbet88 (we were at the beginning of the 3rd game of set 1 when i took screenshots...Pinbet88 started displaying lines at the beginning of game 5...)
I sent the 2 screenshots, AsianConnect noticed indeed the match appeared on old Pinnacl but not on Pinbet88, they forwarded to Pinnacle... And i let you guess what was Pinnacle answer...???

They said they could not take these 2 screenshots into consideration because there was a sligh difference of time on the "refresh button" between the 2 screenshots (about 2 seconds, as i made the second screenshot 2 seconds after the first 1), so for them that doesn't show/proove anything, time on "refresh button" should be exactly the same... Are they serious??? Do they laugh at me?? Is it so complicated for them to understand that tennis in-play lines on Pinbet88 are displayed much too late? Don't they understand or don't they rather want to fix the issue?

I keep much money on Pinbet88, much money, as i especially appreciate live betting for tennis, but impossible to use that money with their catastrophic service! Has someone any reasonable explanation??Why are in-play lines displayed later on Pinbet88? And why do they obviously have no will to fix it??

I don't know but it kind of sounds like first line CS do not know the answer basically.

I doubt it is intentional but there is some chance they had been hurt on live betting openers through agents and are delaying opening some live games on the agent site... but it's probably just a teething error they still havent sorted out imho.

[tristan]

weeks pass... But problems remains the same... I think i don't make any mistake when i say there was absolutely no improvement at all in Pinbet88 live/in-play betting for tennis... Lines continues to be displayed 20 minutes after they are on old Pinnacle, when matches have started for a while and 4-5 games have already been played. So either they are totally incompetent not to have been able to fix that issue after all that time, or they intentionnaly delay lines display on Pinbet88. Considering Pinbet88 was created 2-3 months ago now, i can't believe they're so incompetent they can't even display lines at the same time on both websites, so my opinion is clear now: that new Pinbet88 website was created to "control" customers from agents, the ones who "hurt" them the most. In other words the fact to have a Pinbet88 account through agents now is a clear disadvantage compared with having an old Pinnacle account. That makes no doubt.

[luctens]

weeks pass... But problems remains the same... I think i don't make any mistake when i say there was absolutely no improvement at all in Pinbet88 live/in-play betting for tennis... Lines continues to be displayed 20 minutes after they are on old Pinnacle, when matches have started for a while and 4-5 games have already been played. So either they are totally incompetent not to have been able to fix that issue after all that time, or they intentionnaly delay lines display on Pinbet88. Considering Pinbet88 was created 2-3 months ago now, i can't believe they're so incompetent they can't even display lines at the same time on both websites, so my opinion is clear now: that new Pinbet88 website was created to "control" customers from agents, the ones who "hurt" them the most. In other words the fact to have a Pinbet88 account through agents now is a clear disadvantage compared with having an old Pinnacle account. That makes no doubt.

What you are saying is complete rubbish. Pinnacle have taken bets from everybody without discriminating against any customers for the best part of 20 years, and nothing has changed. It is very likely that they created this Pinbet88 site to ringfence the customers from grey market countries etc as a requirement of the application process for them to get a UK Gambling Commission licence which they are expected to get soon, but it most certainly wasn't anything to do with them intentionally putting agent customers at a disadvantage.

You go on about live betting that is behind, but I expect that not all betting is behind, especially pre-match, so it's probably an issue with them migrating the in-play data feed across from the Pinnacle.com site to the Pinbet88 site or something similar to that kind of issue. Although something like a data feed issue should be quick and easy to sort out, with how long it took them to get the Pinbet88 site up and running in the first place, don't expect them to sort anything out any time soon.

One thing is for sure, Pinnacle aren't displaying delayed live odds on purpose to disadvantage their agent customers, it is simply a case that Pinnacle are crap at IT, which everybody has known for a long time.

I'm sure you have already contacted your agent, Pinnacle, SBR and whoever else about this already so I'm sure the powers that be know that there is this issue that you speak of, but there's no point in you going on about it over and over, you have informed everybody that needs to know that this issue needs sorting out, and now all you can do is wait, but it will most probably be an extremely long wait.

[tristan]

What you are saying is complete rubbish. Pinnacle have taken bets from everybody without discriminating against any customers for the best part of 20 years, and nothing has changed

Are you serious ?? Sorry but you have a totally wrong idea of what Pinnacle is. Saying Pinnacle takes bets from everybody without discriminating against any customers, that is complete rubbish. Do you ignore that Pinnacle applies restrictions for customers they consider as being too sharp ?? Pinnacle applies different treatments to some accounts/customers, that is a fact, that is known for sure, so stop thinking and saying they act without discrimination against any customers, that is misinformation.

[Optional]

Are you serious ?? Sorry but you have a totally wrong idea of what Pinnacle is. Saying Pinnacle takes bets from everybody without discriminating against any customers, that is complete rubbish. Do you ignore that Pinnacle applies restrictions for customers they consider as being too sharp ?? Pinnacle applies different treatments to some accounts/customers, that is a fact, that is known for sure, so stop thinking and saying they act without discrimination against any customers, that is misinformation.

This is not true.

Pinny give every customer the same starting limits and only ever raise them above that level, or bring them back to that level. Sharps are not restricted or penalized to anything lower than the standard level we all start on.




As far as the live betting issue. An AC88 manager promised to chase Pinny up about the delay in live betting commencement on the agent site again last week. AC said a handful of player accounts were still not fixed and thought that part was still the main focus of techs though.

[tristan]

This is not true.

Pinny give every customer the same starting limits and only ever raise them above that level, or bring them back to that level. Sharps are not restricted or penalized to anything lower than the standard level we all start on.

Sorry optionnal but what i said is nothing but the truth. Restriction is not only a question of limits, there are different ways to "limit"/"restrict" a customer for Pinnacle. When a customer starts with Pinnacle, his bets have no real effects on the odds/lines.But if Pinnacle determines this customer is too sharp, they can apply restrictions on his account so that lines move immediately after his bets (whereas they wouldn't move after the bet of a "normal" customer. That way the too sharp customer won't place many consecutive good value bets, as everyone of his bets considerably makes the odd fall. That is not a restriction that exists at the beginning, that is a restriction that is set up only for sharp customers later...Considering that, i confirm this is totally wrong to say Pinnacle takes bets from everybody without discrimnation against any customers. And what i described you clearly shows that Sharps are penalized lower than the standard level we all start on.

[Optional]

I agree that they profile sharp bettors and move on their play. But it moves for everyone when they bet, not just the individual.

This is not a penalty on sharps.

[tristan]

I agree that they profile sharp bettors and move on their play. But it moves for everyone when they bet, not just the individual.

This is not a penalty on sharps.

How can you say that is not a penalty on sharps whereas it clearly is ???
Let's take a clear example: when a "normal" bettor places a bet (max bet) on a selection with odd 1.952 for example, odd will almost be the same after his bet and so he will be able to place a second consecutive bet with the same good odd. On the contrary, when a "sharp" bettor ("restricted" by pinnacle) places a bet (max bet) on a selection odd 1.952, odd will immediately decrease and the sharp bettor will be unable so to place a second bet (unless, of course, he accepts to place this second bet with a much worst odd). Isn't that a penalty on sharps??
Of course when lines move after sharp bettors bets, they move for everyone, but in that situation the one that is the most annoyed is the one who's just placed a bet and certainly would have wanted to repeat his bet with the same good odd !

I don't criticize the fact Pinnacle applies restrictions on sharp bettors, that is totally normal. I mean they do what any other bookmaker does, they protect themselves, they're not there to lose money but to earn some. I simply didn't want to let say that they don't make any discrimation against any customer, because that is obviously false. Once they detect a customer as being "sharp", they will apply restrictions on his account and he will receive different treatment from others, that's as simple as that. However, i have to admit that the restrictions they apply are much more acceptable than the restriction from most of other bookmakers, but there are restrictions all the same.

[dealer wins]

How can you say that is not a penalty on sharps whereas it clearly is ???
Let's take a clear example: when a "normal" bettor places a bet (max bet) on a selection with odd 1.952 for example, odd will almost be the same after his bet and so he will be able to place a second consecutive bet with the same good odd. On the contrary, when a "sharp" bettor ("restricted" by pinnacle) places a bet (max bet) on a selection odd 1.952, odd will immediately decrease and the sharp bettor will be unable so to place a second bet (unless, of course, he accepts to place this second bet with a much worst odd). Isn't that a penalty on sharps??
Of course when lines move after sharp bettors bets, they move for everyone, but in that situation the one that is the most annoyed is the one who's just placed a bet and certainly would have wanted to repeat his bet with the same good odd !

I don't criticize the fact Pinnacle applies restrictions on sharp bettors, that is totally normal. I mean they do what any other bookmaker does, they protect themselves, they're not there to lose money but to earn some. I simply didn't want to let say that they don't make any discrimation against any customer, because that is obviously false. Once they detect a customer as being "sharp", they will apply restrictions on his account and he will receive different treatment from others, that's as simple as that. However, i have to admit that the restrictions they apply are much more acceptable than the restriction from most of other bookmakers, but there are restrictions all the same.

Its absolutely not a penalty on sharps. Sharps can bet the same amount at the same odds as any other player. How any why pinnacle move their lines after a max bet is up to them.

[luctens]

Pinnacle offers the same odds for everybody, the same standard bet limits for everybody, they never restrict any customer to below those standard bet limits, and every customer has the opportunity to bet up to that standard bet limit on any particular line. That's Pinnacle showing that they don't discriminate against any customers whatsoever.

Also I don't see that you are defending the rubbish you were claiming previously that Pinnacle had opened this Pinbet88 site to "control customers from agents". What a load of tosh.

[tristan]

Pinnacle offers the same odds for everybody, the same standard bet limits for everybody, they never restrict any customer to below those standard bet limits, and every customer has the opportunity to bet up to that standard bet limit on any particular line. That's Pinnacle showing that they don't discriminate against any customers whatsoever.

Also I don't see that you are defending the rubbish you were claiming previously that Pinnacle had opened this Pinbet88 site to "control customers from agents". What a load of tosh.

I don't see what is so difficult to understand for you ? I won't spend more time explaining you the way Pinnacle restricts some sharp bettors, i've already argued before and won't repeat what i've already said. Sharp bettors will easily understand what i mean for sure. And concerning the fact you have difficulties too to understand i say good things about Pinnacle too, sorry but i can't help you. Yes i confirm Pinnacle restricts some customers. And yes at the same time i can say no doubt Pinnacle remains however the best bookmaker in the world. There's no contradiction at all. A bookmaker can restricts some customers and be a top bookmaker at the same time. It's just a question of objectivity to admit both.

[luctens]

I don't see what is so difficult to understand for you ? I won't spend more time explaining you the way Pinnacle restricts some sharp bettors, i've already argued before and won't repeat what i've already said. Sharp bettors will easily understand what i mean for sure. And concerning the fact you have difficulties too to understand i say good things about Pinnacle too, sorry but i can't help you. Yes i confirm Pinnacle restricts some customers. And yes at the same time i can say no doubt Pinnacle remains however the best bookmaker in the world. There's no contradiction at all. A bookmaker can restricts some customers and be a top bookmaker at the same time. It's just a question of objectivity to admit both.

You can only reasonably expect to do one max bet at any bookmaker before you reasonably expect the line to move. The fact is that whether you are a sharp or a dumbo, you can bet up to the standard bet limit on that line. If the line moves after that max bet, then so be it, as customers can only reasonably expect to bet the max bet once on a particular price, and they have to expect the price to change after a max bet, and can't reasonably expect to hammer max bet after max bet without the price changing.

The fact is that if the standard bet limit stated on a price for a particular market is £10k, then anybody, including sharps can bet that £10k at that price. Simple.

[Optional]

How can you say that is not a penalty on sharps whereas it clearly is ???

How can you say that is a penalty on sharps whereas I have explained how it clearly isn't ???

[tristan]

How can you say that is a penalty on sharps whereas I have explained how it clearly isn't ???

Simply because there's absolutely nothing in what you said that prooves me there's no penalty on sharps. I gave you on the contrary clear example of the penalty on sharps! But if you need one more, this is for you and all people that deny the fact sharp bettors are restricted compared to others:

Do you ignore that there are some bettors who are so sharp that, the only way Pinnacle found to "restrict" them, is to cut (offline) the line immediately after each of their bets?? Do you really ignore it? I don't remember if it's here (on SBR) or on other forums, but several times i read testimonies of sharp bettors who explained that, systematically (automatically), after every bet they placed, Pinnacle made the line "offline" for about 30-45 seconds, the time for Pinnacle to adjust their lines if needed and so to prevent the sharp bettor to make several consecutives sharp value bets.
So these are the facts: any "common"/normal customer can make several consecutive bets without being stopped by an "offline" , when some sharp bettors have to face an automatical "offline" on some markets after every one of their bets , and therefore they can't make several consecutive bets. That is another clear example of what i call "penalty" for sharps. Now all of you can think what you want and continue to deny that evidence, that is not a problem for me, i have perfect knowledge of the reality. We all lost time enough on that debate, so this is my last intervention on that debate. Have a good day :-)

[Optional]

No, you are twisting what happens to try and say its a penalty when it's not.

Everyone gets the same minimum limit.

Everyone gets the same odds before and after a sharp account bets.

You need multiple paragraphs to try and explain why that is a penalty and still dont make sense.


Anyway, if you want to say Pinny is bad for sharps... so be it. Go use all the other books that don't "penalize sharps" as badly as you imagine Pinny do. Would like to know if you actually find one book! LOL

[tristan]

No, you are twisting what happens to try and say its a penalty when it's not.

Everyone gets the same minimum limit.

Everyone gets the same odds before and after a sharp account be

You need multiple paragraphs to try and explain why that is a penalty and still dont make sense.


Anyway, if you want to say Pinny is bad for sharps... so be it. Go use all the other books that don't "penalize sharps" as badly as you imagine Pinny do. Would like to know if you actually find one book! LOL

LOL. I perfectly know what a "penalty" is. But you seem to ignore it, so it's a link with all definitions for you:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/penalty

Among definitions you can read " a disadvantage or difficulty you experience". As far as i'm concerned, i consider that when Pinnacle makes "offline" after everyone of your bet, or when Pinnacle decreases so much odds after your bets that place a second bet has no more interest, that is a difficulty you experience. Don't you?
And please don't make me say what i never said: i never said Pinny is bad for sharps, i would even say the contrary :Pinny is the best possible bookmaker for sharps. Despite all the inconvenience they may have (eternal technical issues..), they are and the remain the reference in the world of gambling, so don't put in my mouth words i never pronounced please. I simply said it happens they apply restrictions to sharp bettors too, which represents a real penalty when they do.

[dealer wins]

Tristan its called running a good book. Its the reason Pinnacle can exist, and thrive.

They are the only bookmaker on the planet that manages not to limit their clients, and have huge limits at the same time. Now that shows just how hard it is to run a book.

[tristan]

Tristan its called running a good book. Its the reason Pinnacle can exist, and thrive.

They are the only bookmaker on the planet that manages not to limit their clients, and have huge limits at the same time. Now that shows just how hard it is to run a book.

But we share the same opinion about pinnacle DW ! I don't stop claiming they're the Bookmaker number 1 ! And i added too that this is normal they put some restrictions on some too sharp bettors, they have to protect themselves as any other bookmaker, there's nothing i blame them for that. I simply want to signal the fact they put some restrictions too sometimes! Ok limits are the same for all , i never contested it. But there are other kinds of restrictions that exist as i explained sooner (automatical offline after a bet, anormal decrease of odd after each bet,...), and for a reason i ignore many here refuse to understand that represents a penalty for the bettors who experience it...

[luctens]

Simply because there's absolutely nothing in what you said that prooves me there's no penalty on sharps. I gave you on the contrary clear example of the penalty on sharps! But if you need one more, this is for you and all people that deny the fact sharp bettors are restricted compared to others:

Do you ignore that there are some bettors who are so sharp that, the only way Pinnacle found to "restrict" them, is to cut (offline) the line immediately after each of their bets?? Do you really ignore it? I don't remember if it's here (on SBR) or on other forums, but several times i read testimonies of sharp bettors who explained that, systematically (automatically), after every bet they placed, Pinnacle made the line "offline" for about 30-45 seconds, the time for Pinnacle to adjust their lines if needed and so to prevent the sharp bettor to make several consecutives sharp value bets.
So these are the facts: any "common"/normal customer can make several consecutive bets without being stopped by an "offline" , when some sharp bettors have to face an automatical "offline" on some markets after every one of their bets , and therefore they can't make several consecutive bets. That is another clear example of what i call "penalty" for sharps. Now all of you can think what you want and continue to deny that evidence, that is not a problem for me, i have perfect knowledge of the reality. We all lost time enough on that debate, so this is my last intervention on that debate. Have a good day :-)

LOL. I perfectly know what a "penalty" is. But you seem to ignore it, so it's a link with all definitions for you:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/penalty

Among definitions you can read " a disadvantage or difficulty you experience". As far as i'm concerned, i consider that when Pinnacle makes "offline" after everyone of your bet, or when Pinnacle decreases so much odds after your bets that place a second bet has no more interest, that is a difficulty you experience. Don't you?
And please don't make me say what i never said: i never said Pinny is bad for sharps, i would even say the contrary :Pinny is the best possible bookmaker for sharps. Despite all the inconvenience they may have (eternal technical issues..), they are and the remain the reference in the world of gambling, so don't put in my mouth words i never pronounced please. I simply said it happens they apply restrictions to sharp bettors too, which represents a real penalty when they do.

But we share the same opinion about pinnacle DW ! I don't stop claiming they're the Bookmaker number 1 ! And i added too that this is normal they put some restrictions on some too sharp bettors, they have to protect themselves as any other bookmaker, there's nothing i blame them for that. I simply want to signal the fact they put some restrictions too sometimes! Ok limits are the same for all , i never contested it. But there are other kinds of restrictions that exist as i explained sooner (automatical offline after a bet, anormal decrease of odd after each bet,...), and for a reason i ignore many here refuse to understand that represents a penalty for the bettors who experience it...

If people need to make a max bet 2 or 3 times to get the stake amount they want to get on and they find that the price has changed between placing each max bet, then so be it, but if you want to bet up to the maximum once at a particular price which is all you can reasonably expect, then you get the same standard limit and the same price as everybody, even if you are a sharp. So if you want £30k on but the max bet is £10k, then you have to expect if you're going to bet £10k three times over then the price is not going to be the same for all of those bets.

Again with what you're saying about the market going offline after a bet and then the price changing, so what, Pinnacle have given you a high limit for the first bet and if the market goes offline or the price changes, then that's just the way it is and you will already have had the chance to get a big bet on prior to the market going offline or the price changing.

You really are crying over spilt milk here, and it's pathetic.

[tristan]

If people need to make a max bet 2 or 3 times to get the stake amount they want to get on and they find that the price has changed between placing each max bet, then so be it, but if you want to bet up to the maximum once at a particular price which is all you can reasonably expect, then you get the same standard limit and the same price as everybody, even if you are a sharp. So if you want £30k on but the max bet is £10k, then you have to expect if you're going to bet £10k three times over then the price is not going to be the same for all of those bets.

Again with what you're saying about the market going offline after a bet and then the price changing, so what, Pinnacle have given you a high limit for the first bet and if the market goes offline or the price changes, then that's just the way it is and you will already have had the chance to get a big bet on prior to the market going offline or the price changing.

You really are crying over spilt milk here, and it's pathetic.

I think you 're on the wrong road: you totally forgot the subject of the debate which brings us into conflict! The question was not to know if Pinnacle 's offer is good or enough, we all agree on this point, and i'm the 1st one to admit one can't find as good as Pinnacle in the world of gambling. The question was to know if Pinnacle makes different treatment with some customers (as you affirmed there was no discrimination with any customer), and so i tried to teach you that some customers may be restricted in some ways by Pinnacle. Even being restricted, the offer they have with Pinnacle is great, i'm ok, but they're restricted, for sure, even if you refuse to admit it whereas it is evidence.

[luctens]

I think you 're on the wrong road: you totally forgot the subject of the debate which brings us into conflict! The question was not to know if Pinnacle 's offer is good or enough, we all agree on this point, and i'm the 1st one to admit one can't find as good as Pinnacle in the world of gambling. The question was to know if Pinnacle makes different treatment with some customers (as you affirmed there was no discrimination with any customer), and so i tried to teach you that some customers may be restricted in some ways by Pinnacle. Even being restricted, the offer they have with Pinnacle is great, i'm ok, but they're restricted, for sure, even if you refuse to admit it whereas it is evidence.

The subject that "brought us into conflict", was you saying that Pinnacle had created this Pinbet88 site to intentionally disadvantage its agent customers, and from you not defending that ridiculous claim since you first said it, we'll take it as a given that you accept that was a stupid thing to say.

Your view of what "restrictions" that you think Pinnacle puts on customers are not "restrictions" in the mind of any sane person that knows anything about the bookmaking industry. Pinnacle offer the same minimum standard betting terms to all customers. Simple.

[tristan]

The subject that "brought us into conflict", was you saying that Pinnacle had created this Pinbet88 site to intentionally disadvantage its agent customers, and from you not defending that ridiculous claim since you first said it, we'll take it as a given that you accept that was a stupid thing to say.

Your view of what "restrictions" that you think Pinnacle puts on customers are not "restrictions" in the mind of any sane person that knows anything about the bookmaking industry. Pinnacle offer the same minimum standard betting terms to all customers. Simple.

Ignorant you are on the subject , and ignorant you will remain. I wish you become one day a sharp bettor so that Pinnacle applies you some restrictions and you realize how wrong you were...And concerning the fact that PinnacleSports might have been created to better control customers from agents, you shouldn't be so categorical. Even Optionnal, whose opinion is different from mine on that subject, admits there's a possibility it is exact,as it may be wrong too: "I doubt it is intentional but there is some chance they had been hurt on live betting openers through agents and are delaying opening some live games on the agent site...". So don't be so categorical...

[SBE]

This is not true.

Pinny give every customer the same starting limits and only ever raise them above that level, or bring them back to that level. Sharps are not restricted or penalized to anything lower than the standard level we all start on.




As far as the live betting issue. An AC88 manager promised to chase Pinny up about the delay in live betting commencement on the agent site again last week. AC said a handful of player accounts were still not fixed and thought that part was still the main focus of techs though.

Pinnacle (probably) does not limit customers as for stakes.

But as for, that I know in 100 %, they hate big amounts arbers. If an odds is "on the queue" - is potentially "close to an arb situation" (people who know - they understand this), Pinnacle (probably their software) immediately lowers their odds, moving it to the next nearest (a little bit) lower position, as not to be "in the arb danger" anymore. And this repeats as much as they need. Biggest moves (everybody knows) are just few minutes before the event starts.

Yes, they are saying: "we do not manage customers (here arbers) but we manage odds". It is "partially" true.

There are only a few situations, when Pinnacle allows you to play (complete) an arb successfully.

For example, this is at the time, when they have just accepted big amounts on the opposite side (from such called "sharp players"), and Pinnacle needs to have the event "balanced" - it means, eqaul "wins" (=earnings for Pinnacle) on both sides. I am talking now about tennis (it is easier than soccer, as for only 2 possibilities, 1 and 2, not also X, as in football/soccer).


So if the question is, do Pinnacle limit/restrict customers ?

The answer: "Not directly, but thru managing their odds" .

Some 5-6 years ago, they were not so much "scared" of arbers. But now - they do not allow you to play 95 % of possible arbs.

Yes, they are happy to accept bets (covering an arb), for example, if anybody play home win on a soccer odds 2.0 at (let's say) Bet365 and at Pinnacle 2.02 on +0.5 (or X2 if you prefer). They are happy in this situation. As they even know, that B365 is "the wrong" side and they will (earn in a long run) that +0.5 (X2) side placed at their company.

Believe me, I am over 17 years in this "business" and I clearly know, how the situation is getting worse and worse, everywhere ...

[luctens]

Ignorant you are on the subject , and ignorant you will remain. I wish you become one day a sharp bettor so that Pinnacle applies you some restrictions and you realize how wrong you were...And concerning the fact that PinnacleSports might have been created to better control customers from agents, you shouldn't be so categorical. Even Optionnal, whose opinion is different from mine on that subject, admits there's a possibility it is exact,as it may be wrong too: "I doubt it is intentional but there is some chance they had been hurt on live betting openers through agents and are delaying opening some live games on the agent site...". So don't be so categorical...

If the price is 2.00 and the standard maximum bet is £10k, then for a sharp they can bet £10k at 2.00. If it is a dumbo, then maybe they can bet £12k on 2.00, big wow. And if a sharp bets the £10k at 2.00, maybe the line moves to 1.97, whilst the dumbo's £12k may only move the line to 1.99, again big wow. Pinnacle will still have let the sharp get on the 2.00 for £10k, hardly "restricting" the sharps.

You are playing semantics here. The dumbo may have a little higher max bet and may be able to bet the line again with less of a line move than a sharp, but in the grand scheme of things that's nothing to worry about. You want to know about restrictions then you only have to look at the European bookmakers restricting bets down to 10p, and you're saying Pinnacle who routinely take bets such as £10k from sharps, are "restricting" customers. You seriously need to get into the real world.

And about Pinnacle being hurt by live betting openers, that's a load of crap. Pinnacle have a policy of taking all customers, professional or not so they aren't going to be worried enough about live betting openers to hatch up a plan to open up a site to ringfence the agent customers so they couldn't bet on live betting openers. What a load of utter tosh. There are people with accounts directly with Pinnacle.com you know, and they're not all dumbos, so if there was something up with their live betting openers then the customers directly with Pinnacle will have been hammering them on this anyway so that theory is complete rubbish.

As I said previously, the very likely reason for the opening of the Pinbet88 site would be to ringfence agent customers from grey markets etc to help with their UK Gambling Commission licence application, and the very likely reason there are problems with the live betting is that Pinnacle are crap at IT, so stop with your pointless and stupid conspiracy theories.

[tristan]

If the price is 2.00 and the standard maximum bet is £10k, then for a sharp they can bet £10k at 2.00. If it is a dumbo, then maybe they can bet £12k on 2.00, big wow. And if a sharp bets the £10k at 2.00, maybe the line moves to 1.97, whilst the dumbo's £12k may only move the line to 1.99, again big wow. Pinnacle will still have let the sharp get on the 2.00 for £10k, hardly "restricting" the sharps.

You are playing semantics here. The dumbo may have a little higher max bet and may be able to bet the line again with less of a line move than a sharp, but in the grand scheme of things that's nothing to worry about. You want to know about restrictions then you only have to look at the European bookmakers restricting bets down to 10p, and you're saying Pinnacle who routinely take bets such as £10k from sharps, are "restricting" customers. You seriously need to get into the real world.

And about Pinnacle being hurt by live betting openers, that's a load of crap. Pinnacle have a policy of taking all customers, professional or not so they aren't going to be worried enough about live betting openers to hatch up a plan to open up a site to ringfence the agent customers so they couldn't bet on live betting openers. What a load of utter tosh. There are people with accounts directly with Pinnacle.com you know, and they're not all dumbos, so if there was something up with their live betting openers then the customers directly with Pinnacle will have been hammering them on this anyway so that theory is complete rubbish.

As I said previously, the very likely reason for the opening of the Pinbet88 site would be to ringfence agent customers from grey markets etc to help with their UK Gambling Commission licence application, and the very likely reason there are problems with the live betting is that Pinnacle are crap at IT, so stop with your pointless and stupid conspiracy theories.

It would have been a pleasure Luctens to discuss with you about it more and more, hours and hours again.. But time is MONEY ! So i'll rather spend my time earning money instead of continuing that ridiculous childish battle. If you wish continuing alone, i leave you the last word. Have a good day and enjoy your bets !

[luctens]

Pinnacle (probably) does not limit customers as for stakes.

But as for, that I know in 100 %, they hate big amounts arbers. If an odds is "on the queue" - is potentially "close to an arb situation" (people who know - they understand this), Pinnacle (probably their software) immediately lowers their odds, moving it to the next nearest (a little bit) lower position, as not to be "in the arb danger" anymore. And this repeats as much as they need. Biggest moves (everybody knows) are just few minutes before the event starts.

Yes, they are saying: "we do not manage customers (here arbers) but we manage odds". It is "partially" true.

There are only a few situations, when Pinnacle allows you to play (complete) an arb successfully.

For example, this is at the time, when they have just accepted big amounts on the opposite side (from such called "sharp players"), and Pinnacle needs to have the event "balanced" - it means, eqaul "wins" (=earnings for Pinnacle) on both sides. I am talking now about tennis (it is easier than soccer, as for only 2 possibilities, 1 and 2, not also X, as in football/soccer).


So if the question is, do Pinnacle limit/restrict customers ?

The answer: "Not directly, but thru managing their odds" .

Some 5-6 years ago, they were not so much "scared" of arbers. But now - they do not allow you to play 95 % of possible arbs.

Yes, they are happy to accept bets (covering an arb), for example, if anybody play home win on a soccer odds 2.0 at (let's say) Bet365 and at Pinnacle 2.02 on +0.5 (or X2 if you prefer). They are happy in this situation. As they even know, that B365 is "the wrong" side and they will (earn in a long run) that +0.5 (X2) side placed at their company.

Believe me, I am over 17 years in this "business" and I clearly know, how the situation is getting worse and worse, everywhere ...

Pinnacle doesn't restrict any customers to below the standard maximum bet limit, that's for certain, not "(probably)".

Of course Pinnacle like arbers as arbing brings in a big proportion of the volume they have, and to say that they conspire to block 95% of arb situations is such a completely ludicrous and inaccurate thing to say. Pinnacle are the backbone of all arbers, and I don't hear any arbers complaining of Pinnacle moving their lines to avoid arbs and such rubbish like that, because it's simply not happening. It's simply a mad conspiracy theory that you've dreamt up.

If the line moves at Pinnacle before you can place a bet, it's almost certainly because other bettors got their bets on before you, so you need to look closer to home and you'll have to make yourself that much quicker next time rather than blaming Pinnacle for changing the odds too fast. Take some responsibility yourself for not being quick enough to place a bet rather than blaming the bookmaker for goodness sake.

Pinnacle have the same policy as they've had for almost 20 years, whether that's how they treat arbers, dumbos or any other kind of bettor. Those values of Pinnacle have never changed so stop playing the doom-monger and improve your own betting rather than looking for excuses and conspiracy theories by claiming that the "situation is getting worse" and that it is the the bookmakers' fault rather than blaming your own shortcomings.

[luctens]

It would have been a pleasure Luctens to discuss with you about it more and more, hours and hours again.. But time is MONEY ! So i'll rather spend my time earning money instead of continuing that ridiculous childish battle. If you wish continuing alone, i leave you the last word. Have a good day and enjoy your bets !

You can come back with a valid answer in a few days or weeks if you like, doesn't have to be anytime soon, but I don't think you will be doing that as you know you have no valid answer to the absolute crap you have been talking about, so you have therefore given up. Oh dear.

[dealer wins]

On a side note there is a long period of maintenance planned for tomorrow on Pinbet88.

Our site is performing some essential maintenance work from09/22/2016 13:00 PM to 09/22/2016 16:00 AM (GMT+8)and it will not be available during this time

[SBE]

Pinnacle doesn't restrict any customers to below the standard maximum bet limit, that's for certain, not "(probably)".

Of course Pinnacle like arbers as arbing brings in a big proportion of the volume they have, and to say that they conspire to block 95% of arb situations is such a completely ludicrous and inaccurate thing to say. Pinnacle are the backbone of all arbers, and I don't hear any arbers complaining of Pinnacle moving their lines to avoid arbs and such rubbish like that, because it's simply not happening. It's simply a mad conspiracy theory that you've dreamt up.

There is one guy (one arber, not me, I wish it was me :-) ) who is "covering" = trying to play (I do not know how he manages it, maybe a software using) almost all available tennis (ATP and WTA, not challengers) all the time. Especially the Grand Slams, but also 99 % of all tennis events thru the year long.

These days (after US open) he is not here (I see him clearly there, laying his positions), maybe a vacation :-) .

It is a pity - he probably does not vist this forum. And if so, I doubt he would comment this...

But if he was here - (and had a will to react) he would 100 % confirm my words ! Be sure.

[luctens]

There is one guy (one arber, not me, I wish it was me :-) ) who is "covering" = trying to play (I do not know how he manages it, maybe a software using) almost all available tennis (ATP and WTA, not challengers) all the time. Especially the Grand Slams, but also 99 % of all tennis events thru the year long.

These days (after US open) he is not here (I see him clearly there, laying his positions), maybe a vacation :-) .

It is a pity - he probably does not vist this forum. And if so, I doubt he would comment this...

But if he was here - (and had a will to react) he would 100 % confirm my words ! Be sure.

So there's a guy that you don't know who they are, but they bet a lot of tennis at Pinnacle, and you see him clearly on the site laying his bets?!

You're out of your mind. You are either hallucinating or maybe it is a hobby of yours to come up with random imaginations of people betting at Pinnacle by looking at Pinnacle's website. You really need to go for a lie down.

[dealer wins]

There is one guy (one arber, not me, I wish it was me :-) ) who is "covering" = trying to play (I do not know how he manages it, maybe a software using) almost all available tennis (ATP and WTA, not challengers) all the time. Especially the Grand Slams, but also 99 % of all tennis events thru the year long.

These days (after US open) he is not here (I see him clearly there, laying his positions), maybe a vacation :-) .

It is a pity - he probably does not vist this forum. And if so, I doubt he would comment this...

But if he was here - (and had a will to react) he would 100 % confirm my words ! Be sure.

He wont visit this forum, because he has gone broke lol

[Alfa1234]

Ignorant you are on the subject , and ignorant you will remain. I wish you become one day a sharp bettor so that Pinnacle applies you some restrictions and you realize how wrong you were...And concerning the fact that PinnacleSports might have been created to better control customers from agents, you shouldn't be so categorical. Even Optionnal, whose opinion is different from mine on that subject, admits there's a possibility it is exact,as it may be wrong too: "I doubt it is intentional but there is some chance they had been hurt on live betting openers through agents and are delaying opening some live games on the agent site...". So don't be so categorical...

If you think you are being discriminated against, ask your agent to open you a new account. Problem solved. You'll probably think this "new" account is somehow linked to your old one though...as it may have the same "restrictions" you have now.