Matchbook Scammers.

**Buffalo Nickle** · 09-02-15, 12:41 PM

Looks like it is in the Terms and Conditions. I'd say you have no case. Always have to check on those things before you withdraw. If you take it for granted, it is on you.

**qwaszx123** · 09-02-15, 01:05 PM

No as I said they added the new 2% withdrawal fee when I already had funds with them.

**Buffalo Nickle** · 09-02-15, 01:10 PM

It doesn't matter. They still disclosed it. Terms are always subject to change and you have check to make certain nothing has.

It's an exchange. They want a certain amount of volume and you didn't give it. You can't get everything for nothing. Even with the 2% fee, you probably still came out ahead of the alternative.

**qwaszx123** · 09-02-15, 01:15 PM

No, they added the fee with no notice and there was no way of me to know.

I always turned over my deposit at least once probably more. The fee was not on winnings but on the whole balance so I've been conned.

**xtrader** · 09-02-15, 01:19 PM

They should have given you a warning prior to processing the withdrawal. As far as I know they do warn players about the fee.
Are you sure they didn't ?

**Buffalo Nickle** · 09-02-15, 01:19 PM

They have it in the Terms & Conditions. You don't usually get notice of fees on withdrawals. That's fair game.

Turning over your deposit with an exchange is not good enough. You are not dealing with a sportsbook offering standard odds that has incentive to keep you as a customer or appreciate your business. This is bare bones. You aren't paying for much and you don't have much to be entitled to.

At worst, this is marginal customers service. But I think we can see from the theatrics that they might have had a legitimate attitude to let you bugger off as believe the Brits say.

**qwaszx123** · 09-02-15, 01:25 PM

They should have given you a warning prior to processing the withdrawal. As far as I know they do warn players about the fee.
Are you sure they didn't ?

They first said I could have 1 free withdrawal. I continued to bet for a week.

They had told me I need to make £275 of commission for a free withdrawal. I made £11.40 and when I asked for an updated figure it had only gone down to £267. I emailed a complaint and they gave no reply.

Then I bet and made £1.20 commission and the figure they quoted me went up instead of down!

I then withdrew my balance and they declined a free withdrawal after before saying I would be entitled to 1 free withdrawal. I phoned to complain and was threateningly told no.

They are scammers.

**Buffalo Nickle** · 09-02-15, 01:29 PM

They aren't scammers. They charged a fee that they disclose to a low volume customer that is very reasonable and completely appropriate in my estimation. I'd just take it as a learning experience and learn how to get a free withdrawal the next time.

**qwaszx123** · 09-02-15, 01:34 PM

Originally posted by Buffalo Nickle

They aren't scammers. They charged a fee that they disclose to a low volume customer that is very reasonable and completely appropriate in my estimation. I'd just take it as a learning experience and learn how to get a free withdrawal the next time.

I am not a low volume customer and hardly ever deposited or withdrew from my matchbook account. My last previous withdrawal was about 6 months ago. The payment rating they use is just all made up. They are a complete scam. If I didn't deposit or withdraw how did the amount of commission I need to generate go up instead of down after I bet.

It's clear they are scammers. They did not respond to emails and were very aggressive when I tried to deal with them on the phone.

**Buffalo Nickle** · 09-02-15, 01:39 PM

Originally posted by qwaszx123

I am not a low volume customer and hardly ever deposited or withdrew from my matchbook account. My last previous withdrawal was about 6 months ago. The payment rating they use is just all made up. They are a complete scam. If I didn't deposit or withdraw how did the amount of commission I need to generate go up instead of down after I bet.

It's clear they are scammers. They did not respond to emails and were very aggressive when I tried to deal with them on the phone.

Maybe so. But you don't seem to even understand how their business works. I still say you got a decent deal. I wouldn't complain too much. Live and learn.

**qwaszx123** · 09-02-15, 01:45 PM

I don't need to understand how their business works as long as I bet fairly. And do not excessively deposit and withdraw which I didn't.

How did I get a decent deal when they took 2% off the entire balance and not just the winnings, aswell as 1.15% commission win or lose. I could have used smarkets for 2% commission and no other charges.

**Buffalo Nickle** · 09-02-15, 01:47 PM

BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T BET ENOUGH TO EARN A FREE WITHDRAWAL. The fee applied and was charged. You've got nothing to complain about possibly poor communication. Nonetheless, if the fee applies, it applies. This is not the kind of business that gives you a freebie as a customer service.

**qwaszx123** · 09-02-15, 01:53 PM

They never told me how much I needed to bet to get a free withdrawal. They just kept plucking figures from the sky and they didn't correspond to the commission I was generating. They made it impossible to withdraw for free and ignored any emails of complaint about this.

You sound like a troll so I am going to ignore you now.

**Buffalo Nickle** · 09-02-15, 01:57 PM

So just take your business to smarkets. 2% is not outrageous at those odds. Good luck to you.

**SBR Forum** · 09-02-15, 02:08 PM

Thanks for sharing your feedback. Buffalo Nickle has the right idea, policy is subject to change but usually major changes are made transparently at the top betting sites. At the end of the day, is your Matchbook account worth the 2% is the question you should ask?

**xtrader** · 09-02-15, 02:11 PM

Originally posted by qwaszx123

They should have given you a warning prior to processing the withdrawal. As far as I know they do warn players about the fee.
Are you sure they didn't ?

They first said I could have 1 free withdrawal. I continued to bet for a week.

They had told me I need to make £275 of commission for a free withdrawal. I made £11.40 and when I asked for an updated figure it had only gone down to £267. I emailed a complaint and they gave no reply.

Then I bet and made £1.20 commission and the figure they quoted me went up instead of down!

I then withdrew my balance and they declined a free withdrawal after before saying I would be entitled to 1 free withdrawal. I phoned to complain and was threateningly told no.

They are scammers.

So they did give you a warning , even though they made a mess with the details... You didn't get anywhere near the amount of commission they requested. I don't think you have a case here.

**qwaszx123** · 09-02-15, 02:19 PM

Originally posted by SBR Forum

Thanks for sharing your feedback. Buffalo Nickle has the right idea, policy is subject to change but usually major changes are made transparently at the top betting sites. At the end of the day, is your Matchbook account worth the 2% is the question you should ask?

No it's not I can use Smarkets as it is cheaper.

So they did give you a warning , even though they made a mess with the details... You didn't get anywhere near the amount of commission they requested. I don't think you have a case here.

When I first went to make a withdrawal they told me they have a new 2% withdrawal fee and that I need to generate £275 of commission to have a free withdrawal and that I could have 1 free withdrawal.

So there is no warning as they lied to me and declined a free withdrawal when I tried to withdraw.

**Hareeba!** · 09-02-15, 03:01 PM

I've been a regular player at Matchbook for years.
I have no recollection of any notification regarding a withdrawal fee being introduced.
It is just not acceptable to introduce such a fee without clear notification to players.
It is simply not reasonable to expect players to read the T&C every time they use a site.
And it is also not at all acceptable to subject a deposit to T&C which were not in place at the time.

I've just taken a look at what the deal is and find the following very confusing:

Fees and Charges

All withdrawal and deposit requests should be submitted via the deposit/withdraw page of our website.

Unless otherwise stated in the deposit/withdraw page of our website, Matchbook will absorb the cost of deposit and withdrawal fees. We reserve the right to withdraw this offer at any time, without prior notice.
Up to date information on which funding methods incur charges is published on the deposit/withdraw page of our website.
This does not affect your right to withdraw all or part of your balance at any time, less any relevant fee charges.
Absorption of payment method processing costs on deposit and withdrawal activity is on the assumption that Customers will wager deposited funds on the Matchbook.
Deposited funds must be rolled over at least once prior to withdrawal.
In situations where Customers wish to withdraw funds without having placed a real money bet on our website Matchbook will apply a processing fee as detailed in this section of the T’s and C’s to their withdrawal.
Customer accounts each have a payment rating. This is calculated based on wagering and funding activity. Processing fees are absorbed by Matchbook or passed on to the Customer based on the following rating:
- Payment rating of 1.1 or greater - Matchbook absorbs processing fees.
- Payment rating of less than 1.1 - Processing fees passed to Customer.
Payment processing fees will be charged at 2% on the requested withdrawal amount.

The Payment rating is calculated as follows:
- (Net Customer Exchange Commission + Other Product Volume * 5%)/(Deposit Volume * 2.5% - Processing Fees Charged)

Where:

Net Customer Exchange Commission = Commission Paid - Administrative Costs
Other Product Volume = Volume staked on non-exchange products (e.g. MB Casino)
Deposit Volume = Amount deposited to a Customer account
Processing Fees Charged = Previous fees charged on withdrawals

The provisions which I've bolded appear to be saying that so long as you bet the amount of your deposit there are no fees payable?

If so that is what I'd regard as a quite acceptable industry standard.

**potless** · 09-02-15, 05:36 PM

Nope Hareeba - rolling over the deposit doesn't make it free.
(or certainly didn't in my case having been rolled multiple times)
They now apply an obscure calculation unless you happen to know their costs which they apply.

As the op says ask one day and you'll get a fig for comms paid to qualify for a free withdrawal.
Ask again later on and you'll quite likely get another figure - in my case the comms figure increased AFTER further wagering.
Used them for years and never had any problems before - something has changed with their operation.
Moved on from them now.

(as the 2% is on withdrawal amount didn't fancy hitting a hot streak, running up a decent balance and being stung)

**Hareeba!** · 09-02-15, 05:55 PM

Originally posted by potless

Nope Hareeba - rolling over the deposit doesn't make it free.
(or certainly didn't in my case having been rolled multiple times)
They now apply an obscure calculation unless you happen to know their costs which they apply.

As the op says ask one day and you'll get a fig for comms paid to qualify for a free withdrawal.
Ask again later on and you'll quite likely get another figure - in my case the comms figure increased AFTER further wagering.
Used them for years and never had any problems before - something has changed with their operation.
Moved on from them now.

(as the 2% is on withdrawal amount didn't fancy hitting a hot streak, running up a decent balance and being stung)

I can't explain what's happened to you but to my way of reading it the text I highlighted seems pretty clear to me.
It is saying that if you bet your deposit in full then there are no deposit or withdrawal fees.
All that stuff about calculating a fee surely is only relevant if you don't bet your deposit in full?
Am I missing something?
I'm going to seek clarification from Matchbook.

**Optional** · 09-02-15, 06:04 PM

Originally posted by Hareeba!

I can't explain what's happened to you but to my way of reading it the text I highlighted seems pretty clear to me.
It is saying that if you bet your deposit in full then there are no deposit or withdrawal fees.
All that stuff about calculating a fee surely is only relevant if you don't bet your deposit in full?
Am I missing something?
I'm going to seek clarification from Matchbook.

I beleive your account has to meet the 1.1 rating as well Hareeba

**potless** · 09-02-15, 06:07 PM

1x rollover is just for starters.

You seemingly need to cover an arbitarily calculated cost figure now as well.
I know of many cases of the charge being applied recently - some with comically high comm figures

**Optional** · 09-02-15, 06:11 PM

Originally posted by potless

1x rollover is just for starters.

You seemingly need to cover an arbitarily calculated cost figure now as well.
I know of many cases of the charge being applied recently - some with comically high comm figures

If you know all these affected people then how can you claim to be unaware of it?

We would have heard about it here if this had been such a big problem for so many people as you claim.

**potless** · 09-02-15, 06:28 PM

Originally posted by Optional

If you know all these affected people then how can you claim to be unaware of it?

We would have heard about it here if this had been such a big problem for so many people as you claim.

I haven't claimed I was unaware of it (came as a 'surprise' to the OP not me)

Perhaps you need to cast your net a little wider if you weren't aware that the application of this charging structure had become more routine.
Maybe folk don't think a complaint is worth the bother these days?

**Optional** · 09-02-15, 06:41 PM

Originally posted by potless

I haven't claimed I was unaware of it (came as a 'surprise' to the OP not me)

Perhaps you need to cast your net a little wider if you weren't aware that the application of this charging structure had become more routine.
Maybe folk don't think a complaint is worth the bother these days?

Sorry Potless. Thought you were the OP when I typed that.

**Hareeba!** · 09-02-15, 06:55 PM

Originally posted by Optional

I beleive your account has to meet the 1.1 rating as well Hareeba

I would hope not!
There is a variable in that equation which we have no way of knowing or monitoring! (Administrative Costs)
That is just plain unacceptable. Matchbook might be about to lose a hitherto very regular player.

**Optional** · 09-02-15, 07:12 PM

Originally posted by Hareeba!

I would hope not!
There is a variable in that equation which we have no way of knowing or monitoring! (Administrative Costs)
That is just plain unacceptable. Matchbook might be about to lose a hitherto very regular player.

I don't like that we are unable to independently calculate it either but not sure how else to incorporate a variable fee figure in otherwise.

**tradeout** · 09-02-15, 08:07 PM

Originally posted by qwaszx123

Matchbook have taken a new 2% withdrawal fee from my account with no warning or notice, when I already had substantial funds with them.

...

**tradeout** · 09-02-15, 08:25 PM

Originally posted by qwaszx123

They should have given you a warning prior to processing the withdrawal. As far as I know they do warn players about the fee.
Are you sure they didn't ?

They first said I could have 1 free withdrawal. I continued to bet for a week.

They had told me I need to make £275 of commission for a free withdrawal. I made £11.40 and when I asked for an updated figure it had only gone down to £267.

So they gave you an approximate figure of how much commission to generate. Why didn't you do it, and then go from there? 275 is reasonably easy to achieve.

**jjgold** · 09-02-15, 08:26 PM

smart markets

dead as a door knob

Matchbook one of best in industry

**tradeout** · 09-02-15, 08:27 PM

SBR MODS,

Change the title of the thread!!!

**Hareeba!** · 09-03-15, 03:50 AM

I've received clarification from Matchbook which has put me at ease over this issue.
It's clearly designed to make the likes of arbers pay for the costs incurred by their deposit and withdraw behaviour.
My account is a long way above the 1.1 threshold which attracts the withdrawal fee.

**potless** · 09-03-15, 04:45 AM

fwiw the deposit and withdraw behaviour on mine was quite unremarkable - one deposit in the last 6 months and first withdrawal request this year. Can quite understand charges being applied to multiple dep/withdrawals for folk churning these.
arbing should earn them a decent amount of comms - you'd think they'd be encouraging arbers.

The lack of clarity of charging structure and variabilty of the supposed comms needed were the most troubling for me.
Maybe that was just down to poor support staff not being able to make the calculations but the amount needed INCREASING after substantial further wagering was odd to say the least.

Anyway, hopefully when you want to make a withdrawal they'll come back with the same answer for your particular calculation.
To be fair, after just 3 requests confirming I'd pay, they did make the payout on the same day as the third one.
Not worth a possible future charge to factor in for me but ymmv

good luck

**Grivas_Digeni** · 09-03-15, 10:05 AM

Never had a problem with them. Sometimes I deposit on Sunday, make several bets and withdraw on Monday. I believe their 1.1 ratio 'has a memory'. It's not calculated on each and every deposit. If you have a good history with them (you do not deposit, make one bet and withdraw the next day very often, and you give them regular action most of the time), you will never have this problem.

My guess is OP expected everything for nothing. I get on average 4 cents better lines than anywhere else in the world on baseball. If they wanted a fee to have access to this MAJOR advantage, I would still pay it. Whichever way you cut it, matchbook is the best. I'm surprised they make any money, so please get a reality check if you think you've been scammed. Even the man who 'never has and never will pay fees to deposit or withdraw my own funds', said this fee is OKAY.