[kero214]

Not here to bash 5dimes, just posting this situation publicly to let players see situation and outcome. Basically, last night was playing at 5dimes live casino and the software bugged out and me and one other player didn't get a chance to play our hand. Instead of explaining everything, I will just post the chat log I had with Tony today.

Please wait for a site operator to respond.
You are now chatting with 'Joyce'
Joyce: Hello. How may I assist you today?
Terrence: I was told to ask for the General Manager Tony
Joyce: Can you please confirm your account number and password?
Terrence: 3D Poker 5D1893******
Terrence: sorry 5D19*******
Joyce: Just a moment please
Joyce: ok, thanks
Joyce: Just a moment please
Terrence: Ok
Please wait while I transfer the chat to 'Tony'.
You are now chatting with 'Tony'
Tony: how can I help you today?
Terrence: Hello Tony. I had a problem in the live casino last night and was told only you could help.
Tony: please give me the amount of the play in dispute
Terrence: $85 a little after 11:00 at the first $10 table. Julie was dealing.
Terrence: 11o central time
Tony: we've sent an e-mail to the livedealer network requesting their version of what happened
Terrence: Oh, ok. you are already aware of the situation?
Tony: i expect an answer from them shortly, then we'll finalize a decision
Tony: yes, but while waiting for their reply, please give me your version of what happened
Terrence: Something went wrong where everything was lagging behind really bad, and then it sped up real fast, and by the time real time caught up, I missed my turn to do anything. Then it happened again during third players turn. We all typed up complaining that this was happening, but got ignored as she kept dealing. Next thing we know, we all lost.
Tony: ok, the biggest key to me is if your hand was not played in the proper "standard" way of completing a hand
Tony: then 100% you'll be compensated
Tony: was that the case?
Terrence: Yea, I lose alot and never complain, but this was just too bad a situation not to speak up about.
Terrence: Thanks for your help Tony
Tony: what hand did you have?
Terrence: I believe 16, not a good hand, but I still had no option to do anything even surrender. Also as you know the other player not having ability to hit correctly affects the outcome of the dealers hand.
Tony: you have the same chance of winning on your hand regardless if the other player hands are played correctly
Tony: so a 16 that was beaten by the dealer
Tony: so it comes down to if the dealer had a 10 or an Ace
Tony: or really 9 8 or 7
Tony: as one would potentially hit on any of those hands
Tony: or as you said, possibly surrender
Terrence: Don't know what happened, as I said everything slowed down and sped up again during another players turn. Didn't even see what dealer had. Wish it was recorded so you could see what happened.
Tony: so you saw what you had, then everything sped up?
Terrence: No, everything was slow motion at first, then when real time caught up my turn had passed, but I did see what I had.
Tony: ok, so you had a 16
Terrence: Yes sir.
Tony: but you don't know what the dealer had?
Tony: yes to both?
Terrence: Don't remember. I believe everything was going buggy again while dealer was getting cards, but I really don't remember. I may have been typing asking for pitboss to help, telling her I got no options. It's in the chat log. I was typing saying something was wrong before I even got my cards. Check the log.
Terrence: I'm trying to be as honest as possible here
Tony: i'm pulling up the card history now
Terrence: Not trying to over
Terrence: get over
Terrence: Thanks
Tony: you were dealt a 6-diamonds J-diamonds
Tony: dealer 2-diamonds 4-hearts 5-diamonds 10-clubs
Tony: so i have to wait for the livedealer people
Tony: as your hand was properly played based on the hand histories
Tony: if it had not been, then I could have handled this now
Tony: so i have to wait for the livedealer version of this to piece it all together
Terrence: The point Tony is that I was unable to play my hand. I know I had a shitty hand, but if I can't even make any decisions or play my hand, it is not a fair situation.
Tony: all i can do is observe if the hand was properly completed with basic strategy
Tony: and it was
Tony: if it was not, then i can handle it
Tony: but it was completed properly
Tony: so i have to wait for the report of what happened from the livedealer network
Terrence: Ok, thanks for your time, and if there is a way for you to check the chat logs, please do as that will show you the situation was happening before cards were even dealt.
Tony: i'll have all the infomation needed once livedealer provides me with the report
Terrence: Thanks for your time.
Tony: not a problem at all
Tony: if you don't receive a credit or a e-mail by noon tomorrow, ask for me on the chat again
Tony: but i hope to have this solved within an hour of receiving the details from the network
Terrence: Sounds good. Take care.

[LostBankroll]

You wont get shit. I once had something similar happen to me. I was playing at the $500 roulette table and placed $50 on the 1st dozen to win $100 plus my $50. It hit but for some reason everything was frozen all I could see is the number 6 land. Next thing I know I was flat out broke and talked to Tonie where he told me the same shit he told you. You will receive an email that will state there was NO ERROR and you will not be compensated.

[LVHerbie]

If the dealer had a 2 showing the player should stand with a 16 anyhow... I can't see why 5dimes would be required to give a refund as the software error just insured the player wouldn't make a mathematical mistake...

[kero214]

So you think it is fair to be dealt cards, and not have any decision? So what about the 3rd player at the table this happened to that split there cards and then was unable to hit correctly after the split? Does this not have any bearing on the outcome of the dealers hand?

[TheMoneyShot]

[/COLOR] Tony: all i can do is observe if the hand was properly completed with basic strategy Tony: and it was Tony: if it was not, then i can handle it Tony: [COLOR=black]but it was completed properly.

This is where there's a major issue. Tony can't assume what a player/user was thinking in his head. Tony is offering a casino game to a player. That player must have all options available to use... just like if he was sitting LIVE AT A TABLE. To assume basic strategy shouldn't constitute as default. A dealer is responsible for basic "RULE" strategy... a Player/User is not. If said player wants to hit at 18 he should have an option to hit. Player's hand and/or consecutive hands (if errors were presented) should be refunded to the player.

[shari91]

Ignore Moderator under my name for a moment

I'm actually really interested in this because I used to play way too much live blackjack in casinos and this is the only game that could ever entice me to play an online casino.

This is the rule that I found in 5Dimes live casino rules.

• If a player's connection is lost or he misses his wager opportunity due to external factors, the hand is continued and not cancelled. If the game is blackjack, the hand in question will be considered a "stand" and the game will continue on to its conclusion.

Does this apply here? As in the dealer has to play out basic strategy and kero would just have to sit on whatever he was dealt regardless of what it was?

If that's the case, then fair enough because that's the rule but I'd be a bit ticked if I had 7 4 or something showing.

[kero214]

This is where there's a major issue. Tony can't assume what a player/user was thinking in his head. Tony is offering a casino game to a player. That player must have all options available to use... just like if he was sitting LIVE AT A TABLE. To assume basic strategy shouldn't constitute as default. A dealer is responsible for basic "RULE" strategy... a Player/User is not. If said player wants to hit at 18 he should have an option to hit. Player's hand and/or consecutive hands (if errors were presented) should be refunded to the player.

My point exactly.

[TheMoneyShot]

Ignore Moderator under my name for a moment

I just ignored it. =) LOL Well hello there.... LOL

Well if 5dimes has it in writing... apparently there is nothing you can do? Kero... use my advice and contact Tony again in a nice tone and suggest what I wrote. Again, do it nicely.

As for what is posted at 5dimes... that protects them in a lot of areas in which honestly... they are over protected... which is not fair to the player. That's why I stay away from casino games... it's hard beating the dealer and excessive rules. GL Kero.

[shari91]

I just ignored it. =) LOL Well hello there.... LOL Well if 5dimes has it in writing... apparently there is nothing you can do? Kero... use my advice and contact Tony again in a nice tone and suggest what I wrote. Again, do it nicely. As for what is posted at 5dimes... that protects them in a lot of areas in which honestly... they are over protected... which is not fair to the player. That's why I stay away from casino games... it's hard beating the dealer and excessive rules. GL Kero.

Ok, so this is another reason why online casinos probably would never work for me as I can't even maintain a connection to SBR Poker and there's no money involved in that. I wouldn't risk it with this dodgy Internet I have. I can see how it could work in your favour - you don't draw the card you would've and that would've busted you, instead the dealer busts out and because you're forced to stand, you win. But on the flip side, I'd be angry if I had a decent drawing hand and was forced to just sit there.

Then again, I tried to think of what a Vegas casino would do but I couldn't think of a comparable example. If the lights went out, they'd go out for everyone - the dealer wouldn't be able to continue either.

Good luck with this kero

[Justin7]

The few times something screwy happened to me when playing Blackjack in a casino, I was offered the option to play my hand, or pull my wager back. This is obviously a player-favorable rule -- you keep any hand where you have equity, and pull your bet back if you don't.

I don't know what 5dimes' rules are on this, but if it was a software error, and he wants to keep your business, he might consider doing that here...

[boatboatboat]

I would think if a player has a clean history, for 85 bucks they would EAT it, no matter what the situation.

once again, assuming the player hasn't had other situations with 5 dimes, like bad lines, deposit issues, blah blah blah.

[kero214]

********UPDATE********

Just got this email

Dear Terrence,

Greetings! The Live Dealer support team has replied to our email and it has been determined that you were in fact not able to take action on the game.
A refund for the $85 has been issued by Live Dealer and is right now available in your Live Dealer balance.

Please let us know of there is anything else we may assist you with.

Best Regards,
Ernest
Customer Service
5Dimes Group
1-800-305-3517

[boatboatboat]

Good job Ernie

[lt56]

If the dealer had a 2 showing the player should stand with a 16 anyhow... I can't see why 5dimes would be required to give a refund as the software error just insured the player wouldn't make a mathematical mistake...

that makes sense in communist Russia. Glad player was refunded. 5 Dimes is great book

[fury]

Nice to see Tony do the right thing.

[TheMoneyShot]

I'm happy for you Kero! Hope that's what you were expecting?

[cjwatsonfan32]

sped up-cocaine. slowed down-marijuana. youre an addict

[kero214]

I am actually very interested, because I play 21 games coach tote bags in the casino too many activities, this is the only attraction, I can not play online casino...

WTF?

[kero214]

I'm happy for you Kero! Hope that's what you were expecting?

Thanks money. The 85 bucks wasn't that big a deal, it was more principle and seeing if they would do the right thing.

[Kaabee]

The few times something screwy happened to me when playing Blackjack in a casino, I was offered the option to play my hand, or pull my wager back. This is obviously a player-favorable rule -- you keep any hand where you have equity, and pull your bet back if you don't. I don't know what 5dimes' rules are on this, but if it was a software error, and he wants to keep your business, he might consider doing that here...

that's how they do it in my local casino. dealer screws up = player advantage.

[LegitBet]

If the dealer had a 2 showing the player should stand with a 16 anyhow... I can't see why 5dimes would be required to give a refund as the software error just insured the player wouldn't make a mathematical mistake...

Actually I didn't see where in the hand history Tony stated did it indicate what the dealer's up card was.
Could have been either the 2 or 4, right?

[louis]

Basic Strategy may say to stand, 16 vs. 2, but not all players play basic strategy. The players money should be refunded in this case if it is true he was not given sufficient opportunity to make a decision.

[DblDeuce]

Basic Strategy may say to stand, 16 vs. 2, but not all players play basic strategy. The players money should be refunded in this case if it is true he was not given sufficient opportunity to make a decision.

He was refunded, he posted the email in post #12 above.

[DblDeuce]

Forgot to add, I went to the casino yesterday and a player there didn't play basic strategy at all. He played the "never bust" method, he would never hit when he had 12 or higher. He didn't last long at the table.

[kero214]

Let me guess, he doubled up after every loss too...

[bettilimbroke999]

Ignore Moderator under my name for a moment

I'm actually really interested in this because I used to play way too much live blackjack in casinos and this is the only game that could ever entice me to play an online casino.

This is the rule that I found in 5Dimes live casino rules.

• If a player's connection is lost or he misses his wager opportunity due to external factors, the hand is continued and not cancelled. If the game is blackjack, the hand in question will be considered a "stand" and the game will continue on to its conclusion.

Does this apply here? As in the dealer has to play out basic strategy and kero would just have to sit on whatever he was dealt regardless of what it was?

If that's the case, then fair enough because that's the rule but I'd be a bit ticked if I had 7 4 or something showing.

How could a rule that a computer error on the casino's end results in you having to stand on 11 for example and thus losing the hand be justified? Just being "ticked off" about being robbed is your conclusion, boy its nice to know SBR has logical moderators on staff to sort out problems . I would say all hands should be refunded unless the player or dealer got a blackjack in which it wouldnt have mattered.

[robertg]

good to see a problem resolved in favor of customer......

[shari91]

How could a rule that a computer error on the casino's end results in you having to stand on 11 for example and thus losing the hand be justified? Just being "ticked off" about being robbed is your conclusion, boy its nice to know SBR has logical moderators on staff to sort out problems . I would say all hands should be refunded unless the player or dealer got a blackjack in which it wouldnt have mattered.

That's the point: What you "would say" doesn't mean jack. As neither does what I say. And I never said the rule was justified - I said if that's the rule posted, then "fair enough". As in, they posted a rule - it explains their position in a certain situation. It's our responsibility to know the rules before we play. And if you actually read what I said you would see that was my whole point - I'd be frightened to play in any online casino if that rule was enforced without common sense being allowed to enter the discussion considering I can't even establish stable connections to SBR Poker.

I'm happy to hear common sense was applied here and you were refunded kero.

[wrongturn]

When the connection is lost, it is very rare the error is on the casino's end. This rule is also for protection against intentional disconnect on bad hands.

[shari91]

When the connection is lost, it is very rare the error is on the casino's end. This rule is also for protection against intentional disconnect on bad hands.

Thank you. Your explanation makes sense.

[Saunders FTW]

When the connection is lost, it is very rare the error is on the casino's end. This rule is also for protection against intentional disconnect on bad hands.

Well put Wrong

[Killakrzydav]

I'm glad you got it refunded.

[stikymess]

Glad you got your money back, stay out of there! There has to be a blackjack table for you within driving distance, go play at a real table.

[kero214]

Glad you got your money back, stay out of there! There has to be a blackjack table for you within driving distance, go play at a real table.

Agreed. I'm convinced it's rigged anyway. Don't know how they do it, but I've seen things done at this live casino that I have never seen done playing Blackjack in real Casinos.

[mvp123]

i wonder if it was for 860.00 bucks and not 86 or 8600 bucks not 86 they would have came to the same conclusion , because right or wrong wats 86 bucks to tony, nothing but bad pub if he dont pay
im glad kero got paid tho