The opponents of the AZ immigration bill have been had...

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  • curious
    Restricted User
    • 07-20-07
    • 9093

    #1
    The opponents of the AZ immigration bill have been had...
    I spent several hours CAREFULLY reading the entire AZ immigration bill. I had read it before but I didn't get the full impact of everything that it says.

    The opponents of the immigration bill are celebrating too soon. I think they were had. I think that the AZ legislature put things in the bill that they didn't much care about knowing that those things would be challenged.

    I didn't understand why illegals were getting out of AZ as fast they can at first, but after reading the bill, now I understand it.

    If you get arrested under this bill your life is over. You won't be deported. Well, not at first. Let me just describe the BEST CASE scenario for someone who is arrested under this bill.

    One section of the bill makes it a crime for a person to be in Arizona without legal status. The actual crime is trespass. That doesn't sound like a big deal, trespass is usually more or less a civil matter. Oh, and the bill defines trespass as being on any private or public property without proper documentation as to your legal status. That means anywhere in AZ.

    So, a person is arrested under this law and charged with criminal trespass. One thing you have to understand about this law, all sentences are mandatory, there is no probation or parole allowed. For the trespass there is an automatic $500 fine plus jail time, let's say 30 days. It doesn't stop there though. There are mitigating circumstances that can make the trespass a class 4 felony. That's right, a class 4 felony. That is two and a half years mandatory sentence. Let's say that this person doesn't fall into that category and pays their $500 fine and serves their (mandatory) 30 day sentence. Now they are turned over to ICE/INS and deported. No big deal, the immigrant thinks, just come back in a few days.

    Now the immigrant is caught again somehow (and this can be years later) and goes to court again. One of the circumstances that makes the trespass a class 4 felony is having been deported before for immigration violation. So, now the immigrant is facing a mandatory 2 1/2 year sentence plus a fine and they cannot be turned over to ICE/INS until AFTER they serve their sentence.

    There are several mitigating circumstances that can make the criminal trespass a class 2 felony.

    Basically if you are in Arizona and you do not have legal status and you get involved with the police somehow, your life is over, there is no probation, no parole, no appeal, no plea bargain. You are going to do jail time, pay fine, and then be deported, and if you get caught a second time, well give your family some pictures of yourself because they are not seeing you again for a LONG time.

    One of the mitigating circumstances that can make your trespass charge a felony is human trafficking/smuggling. But, trafficking is defined as aiding ANYONE into the country. So, let's say that you are in your car and you have your cousins with you and they are not legal. Not only are you guilty of trespass, you are also guilty of human trafficking/smuggling. Mandatory class 2 felony, no parole, no probation, no plea bargain. And after you do your five years hard time you get deported.

    The thing that most people don't realize is that the trespass clause is a STATE law, not a federal law, so Arizona gets to punish you before they are obligated to turn you over to INS/ICE.

    This "victory" that the pro illegal immigration lobby is celebrating is hollow. This law has real teeth. The pro illegal immigration crowd has been had.
  • itchypickle
    SBR Posting Legend
    • 11-05-09
    • 21452

    #2
    Originally posted by curious
    I spent several hours CAREFULLY reading the entire AZ immigration bill. I had read it before but I didn't get the full impact of everything that it says.

    The opponents of the immigration bill are celebrating too soon. I think they were had. I think that the AZ legislature put things in the bill that they didn't much care about knowing that those things would be challenged.

    I didn't understand why illegals were getting out of AZ as fast they can at first, but after reading the bill, now I understand it.

    If you get arrested under this bill your life is over. You won't be deported. Well, not at first. Let me just describe the BEST CASE scenario for someone who is arrested under this bill.

    One section of the bill makes it a crime for a person to be in Arizona without legal status. The actual crime is trespass. That doesn't sound like a big deal, trespass is usually more or less a civil matter. Oh, and the bill defines trespass as being on any private or public property without proper documentation as to your legal status. That means anywhere in AZ.

    So, a person is arrested under this law and charged with criminal trespass. One thing you have to understand about this law, all sentences are mandatory, there is no probation or parole allowed. For the trespass there is an automatic $500 fine plus jail time, let's say 30 days. It doesn't stop there though. There are mitigating circumstances that can make the trespass a class 4 felony. That's right, a class 4 felony. That is two and a half years mandatory sentence. Let's say that this person doesn't fall into that category and pays their $500 fine and serves their (mandatory) 30 day sentence. Now they are turned over to ICE/INS and deported. No big deal, the immigrant thinks, just come back in a few days.

    Now the immigrant is caught again somehow (and this can be years later) and goes to court again. One of the circumstances that makes the trespass a class 4 felony is having been deported before for immigration violation. So, now the immigrant is facing a mandatory 2 1/2 year sentence plus a fine and they cannot be turned over to ICE/INS until AFTER they serve their sentence.

    There are several mitigating circumstances that can make the criminal trespass a class 2 felony.

    Basically if you are in Arizona and you do not have legal status and you get involved with the police somehow, your life is over, there is no probation, no parole, no appeal, no plea bargain. You are going to do jail time, pay fine, and then be deported, and if you get caught a second time, well give your family some pictures of yourself because they are not seeing you again for a LONG time.

    One of the mitigating circumstances that can make your trespass charge a felony is human trafficking/smuggling. But, trafficking is defined as aiding ANYONE into the country. So, let's say that you are in your car and you have your cousins with you and they are not legal. Not only are you guilty of trespass, you are also guilty of human trafficking/smuggling. Mandatory class 2 felony, no parole, no probation, no plea bargain. And after you do your five years hard time you get deported.

    The thing that most people don't realize is that the trespass clause is a STATE law, not a federal law, so Arizona gets to punish you before they are obligated to turn you over to INS/ICE.

    This "victory" that the pro illegal immigration lobby is celebrating is hollow. This law has real teeth. The pro illegal immigration crowd has been had.
    Judge placed injunction on the section 'requiring' LEOs to inquire on immigration status...not banning them from it. Also merely said they aren't 'required to carry papers'....so thats no biggie seeing as how if they dont have any documents...the cops still have to figure out who they are...so...the process continues.
    Comment
    • Emily_Haines
      SBR Posting Legend
      • 04-14-09
      • 15917

      #3
      2.5 years in jail for trespassing

      They going to have to build more jails. At a cost of 15K per year to jail people. Sounds like one hell of a solution you got there.
      Comment
      • DrunkHorseplayer
        SBR Hall of Famer
        • 05-15-10
        • 7719

        #4
        The solution is to build WWII-style internment camps and house them there; it would be cheap and easy.
        Comment
        • curious
          Restricted User
          • 07-20-07
          • 9093

          #5
          Originally posted by Emily_Haines
          2.5 years in jail for trespassing

          They going to have to build more jails. At a cost of 15K per year to jail people. Sounds like one hell of a solution you got there.
          It's not my solution crackhead. And AZ has already shown how they plan to deal with this issue. They are building internment camps with tents. And the detainees will have to do hard labor. Won't cost anywhere near 15K a year.

          The point is that there won't be any repeat offenders of immigration law, no one is going to risk serving 2.5 years at hard labor in a tent in the desert after they have been deported from AZ. That person won't be back.

          This Emily character must be a teenager.
          Comment
          • Data
            SBR MVP
            • 11-27-07
            • 2236

            #6
            Originally posted by curious
            I spent several hours CAREFULLY reading the entire AZ immigration bill.
            Curious, thank you for sharing your findings. I alaways read your posts with interest. Please keep posting and do not disappear again.
            Comment
            • Emily_Haines
              SBR Posting Legend
              • 04-14-09
              • 15917

              #7
              interment camps and hard labor

              WTF??? is it 1943 and we suddenly turned into Nazi Germany

              Some people here have wild imaginations
              Comment
              • curious
                Restricted User
                • 07-20-07
                • 9093

                #8
                Originally posted by Emily_Haines
                interment camps and hard labor

                WTF??? is it 1943 and we suddenly turned into Nazi Germany

                Some people here have wild imaginations
                Yes, you certainly have a wild imagination. And you don't know how to read. This isn't a secret. it is all over the news.

                How is arresting and detaining ILLEGAL immigrants being like Nazi Germany?
                Comment
                • Emily_Haines
                  SBR Posting Legend
                  • 04-14-09
                  • 15917

                  #9
                  Originally posted by curious
                  Yes, you certainly have a wild imagination. And you don't know how to read. This isn't a secret. it is all over the news.

                  How is arresting and detaining ILLEGAL immigrants being like Nazi Germany?
                  I guess the judge agrees with me and see's these stupid new laws are a joke despite what the rest of you think.
                  Comment
                  • curious
                    Restricted User
                    • 07-20-07
                    • 9093

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Emily_Haines
                    I guess the judge agrees with me and see's these stupid new laws are a joke despite what the rest of you think.
                    So a law which required that federal law be enforced is "stupid"? So, you think that the federal immigration laws are stupid? So, I guess you think that we should have no immigration laws then? And no borders either? Third worlders should be ablel to just run loose in our country at will?
                    Comment
                    • GonzosDirtyTrail
                      SBR Wise Guy
                      • 06-26-10
                      • 714

                      #11
                      You do realize that it is logically possible for one to support legal immigration reform and closed borders at the same time, right? The two are not mutually exclusive.

                      Also, is it definitive that Arizona plans to intern illegal immigrants in camps? I googled this and wasn't able to find any credible sources. (Granted I am squeezing this into a break from work, so not a whole lot of time)
                      Comment
                      • DrunkHorseplayer
                        SBR Hall of Famer
                        • 05-15-10
                        • 7719

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Emily_Haines
                        interment camps and hard labor

                        WTF??? is it 1943 and we suddenly turned into Nazi Germany

                        Some people here have wild imaginations
                        I never said anything about hard labor. The fact is that the costs of jailing scumbags has gone through the roof and costs have to be cut; no better way than by establishing internment camps and housing them there. This should apply to anybody in jail and prison, not just illegal filth.
                        Comment
                        • Winnipeg Jets
                          SBR MVP
                          • 05-16-09
                          • 1723

                          #13
                          Originally posted by curious
                          It's not my solution crackhead. And AZ has already shown how they plan to deal with this issue. They are building internment camps with tents. And the detainees will have to do hard labor. Won't cost anywhere near 15K a year.

                          The point is that there won't be any repeat offenders of immigration law, no one is going to risk serving 2.5 years at hard labor in a tent in the desert after they have been deported from AZ. That person won't be back.

                          This Emily character must be a teenager.
                          total attention whore. Big fukken time!!!
                          Comment
                          • Waterstpub87
                            SBR MVP
                            • 09-09-09
                            • 4102

                            #14
                            Maybe instead of putting them in jail, AZ could use them to build a border wall. That would kill two birds with one stone
                            Comment
                            • itchypickle
                              SBR Posting Legend
                              • 11-05-09
                              • 21452

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Waterstpub87
                              Maybe instead of putting them in jail, AZ could use them to build a border wall. That would kill two birds with one stone

                              OR....cheaper target practice for the UAVs along the border...before they fly over in Pakistan
                              Comment
                              • Waterstpub87
                                SBR MVP
                                • 09-09-09
                                • 4102

                                #16
                                Originally posted by itchypickle
                                OR....cheaper target practice for the UAVs along the border...before they fly over in Pakistan
                                That is a little too far. Any illegals who volunteer to build the wall should get the ability to apply for amnesty.
                                Comment
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