Did the Postle claimants shoot too high?

**Optional** · 01-28-22, 04:31 PM

Sounds like the judge is saying the only claim can be for the rake Stones collected.

**ChuckyTheGoat** · 01-29-22, 01:15 PM

Would like to see a Key Hand analysis of how much $$ he saved on tough Call-downs. Ridiculous:

**blankoblanco** · 01-29-22, 10:32 PM

I don't know much about these types of lawsuits, not sure if there is some strategy behind asking for so much, but I agree it does seem like an insane amount

What also sucks is how blatantly obvious it is that he cheated to any experienced poker player with a brain who's viewed a decent amount of the hands... but how do you explain/convince it to a court? That may not have had much bearing on this particular judgment, but it's been a general obstacle to begin with

It definitely sucks for all the people who lost money to him, but I'm at least a little satisfied that Postle will likely never be a wealthy man again and that thousands of people can now instantly recognize him for the scum bag he is. I just wish it were way more. He deserves to get called a piece of shit at least once every time he shows his face in public

**blankoblanco** · 01-29-22, 10:42 PM

Originally posted by ChuckyTheGoat

Would like to see a Key Hand analysis of how much $$ he saved on tough Call-downs. Ridiculous:

Yep. Reminder that this is the same guy who overbet shoved ~3k into a 1k pot with AK on K high board on the river to get his opponent who also had AK off of a chop. The literal only hand his opponent could have where that bet makes any sense at all...... yet Postle doesn't want to put more than 140 in on the river with the nut flush because the board is paired. And he looked SAD putting the call in. lmao

**Optional** · 01-30-22, 12:41 AM

Originally posted by blankoblanco

What also sucks is how blatantly obvious it is that he cheated to any experienced poker player with a brain who's viewed a decent amount of the hands... but how do you explain/convince it to a court?

No use even trying to explain it to a Cali court.

Judge says law there specifically says courts will not get involved in gambling disputes between players.

Only the card house is liable, and only for the amount of rake collected.

What they asked for is irrelevant as far as I am seeing it.

**ChuckyTheGoat** · 01-30-22, 01:01 PM

Originally posted by blankoblanco

Yep. Reminder that this is the same guy who overbet shoved ~3k into a 1k pot with AK on K high board on the river to get his opponent who also had AK off of a chop. The literal only hand his opponent could have where that bet makes any sense at all...... yet Postle doesn't want to put more than 140 in on the river with the nut flush because the board is paired. And he looked SAD putting the call in. lmao

Yes, insane. Blanko, I really think he felt compelled to call there just to not set off any MORE red-flags on the video stream.

**ChuckyTheGoat** · 01-30-22, 01:04 PM

Originally posted by Optional

No use even trying to explain it to a Cali court.

Judge says law there specifically says courts will not get involved in gambling disputes between players.

Only the card house is liable, and only for the amount of rake collected.

What they asked for is irrelevant as far as I am seeing it.

Yes, Opti. There's what they called an "antiquated" law on the books that excludes gambling losses from recovery.

IMHO, this case would be worthy of exclusion. Best way I could think about it would be line up Mike's Actual Profit/Loss vs a theoretical average Profit/Loss. MikeP is so far ahead of the curve.

Props to Polk for making some of these videos. Top pair on Turn when he is drawing dead to a set. He folds.

**ChuckyTheGoat** · 01-30-22, 01:06 PM

Joe Ingram should win a Pulitzer Prize for disclosing the MikeP scam. And commentator Veronica gets high marks for pointing out that something is not right. Veronica mentioned how he never stacked off to the Nuts...and even great players get in sticky-spots that they have to do that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dH5uaaCmvpM

**ChuckyTheGoat** · 01-30-22, 01:12 PM

blanko:

There are some other really interesting hands to watch. Postle is playing with perfect information.

Some of his opponents picked up on his playing strategy. If Postle is behind on River AND he thinks he can get his opponent off a modest holding, he is over-betting the pot. The GOOD opponents picked up on this and sometimes called down with Ace-hi.

In MikeP's world, the SKILL is what to do with this Info. There's an acronym called EVPI = Expected Value of Perfect Information. Mike's dilemma is WHAT TO DO with Perfect Information.

And to boot, Postle has given interviews where talks about being a "great poker player."

**blankoblanco** · 01-30-22, 01:32 PM

Originally posted by ChuckyTheGoat

Yes, insane. Blanko, I really think he felt compelled to call there just to not set off any MORE red-flags on the video stream.

Oh yeah, for sure. I think if he folds there he makes it like 100% obvious something's fishy. Check/calling you can at least sort of explain with being paranoid about a full house/some sort of God read. Even though it obviously makes zero sense compared to his other plays

I would have loved to see this hand play out but without the board pairing. If only the 7c was a 6c. Would Postle have had the discipline to let himself get stacked this once to keep from blowing his cover? Putting your opponent on the exact straight flush is just not something you would ever do, especially in that game. But he was so greedy (and stupid?), he might have given it away completely

**JAKEPEAVY21** · 01-30-22, 01:37 PM

Originally posted by blankoblanco

Oh yeah, for sure. I think if he folds there he makes it like 100% obvious something's fishy. Check/calling you can at least sort of explain with being paranoid about a full house/some sort of God read. Even though it obviously makes zero sense compared to his other plays

I would have loved to see this hand play out but without the board pairing. If only the 7c was a 6c. Would Postle have had the discipline to let himself get stacked this once to keep from blowing his cover? Putting your opponent on the exact straight flush is just not something you would ever do, especially in that game. But he was so greedy (and stupid?), he might have given it away completely

He should have done this often and he wouldn't have drawn so many red flags. Lose some hands and have some losing sessions would have been very smart as he could've turned the tables whenever he wanted.

**blankoblanco** · 01-30-22, 01:47 PM

Originally posted by ChuckyTheGoat

blanko:

There are some other really interesting hands to watch. Postle is playing with perfect information.

Some of his opponents picked up on his playing strategy. If Postle is behind on River AND he thinks he can get his opponent off a modest holding, he is over-betting the pot. The GOOD opponents picked up on this and sometimes called down with Ace-hi.

In MikeP's world, the SKILL is what to do with this Info. There's an acronym called EVPI = Expected Value of Perfect Information. Mike's dilemma is WHAT TO DO with Perfect Information.

And to boot, Postle has given interviews where talks about being a "great poker player."

I've watched more Postle hands than I care to admit, followed a lot of Chicago Joey's coverage of it when the scandal broke. Seen enough crotch-staring for a lifetime

What you say about his strategy and a few players adjusting to it is right. It's actually amazing how transparent he was in retrospect.

During the later parts of his big run he was being hailed as this unbeatable poker God by all the commentators. What's funny is, if you fully bought into that and simply played against him with the assumption that he knew your hand, you'd have exploited the crap out of him. If he bets full pot or more on the river when you have bottom pair, it was only ever a bluff so you call. If he bets 1/3 pot when you have top pair good kicker, he's always value betting so you fold. I don't think I ever saw him even attempt to balance this

**blankoblanco** · 01-30-22, 02:03 PM

Originally posted by JAKEPEAVY21

He should have done this often and he wouldn't have drawn so many red flags. Lose some hands and have some losing sessions would have been very smart as he could've turned the tables whenever he wanted.

Yeah, no doubt. I think part of why he was so stupid and greedy about it is because it wasn't the highest of stakes and he had at least one co-conspirator to split profits with (Justin K). The other part is because he's stupid and greedy. But I guess when you're just getting away with murder and being called a God by everyone, it's easy to go deeper and deeper down the rabbit-hole and justify any play that makes you more money. It is scary to think how long he could have gotten away with it if he'd been subtle, though. Forever?

**ChuckyTheGoat** · 01-31-22, 12:00 PM

Here's the link to the Federal Judge throwing out the case:

Just a moment...

https://www.casino.org/news/federal-judge-dismisses-poker-lawsuit-against-mike-postle/

“Unlike damages stemming from the rake, these damages are quintessential gambling losses that are barred for recovery by California public policy… Accordingly, California’s strong public policy against judicial resolution of civil claims arising out of gambling disputes mandates the dismissal with prejudice,” the judge ordered.

**ChuckyTheGoat** · 01-31-22, 12:11 PM

I understand the precedent the judge used. Surely the INTENT of the law was to protect the casino against players who acted irresponsibly and later regretted their losses. Of course, a casino should not be on the hook for the poor decisions of the player.

The key word I'd emphasize is GAMBLING loss. Gambling loss implies some combination of skill and luck that leads to an fortuitous outcome. Use of an electronic aid violates the spirit of the game. It's no longer a fortuitous game that's played on equal footing.

This guy (Postle) absolutely should be on the hook to pay back his VICTIMS. I mentioned how I thought the $10M value was shooting for the moon. The $10M implies some combination of Actual Damages and Punitive Damages.

Postle accumulated an estimated gain of $250,000, by some accounts. I saw a Joe Ingram post that more accurately calculated this figure at $325,000. My opinion is that the VICTIMS should seek out the ACTUAL DAMAGES of $325,000.

It's very hard to calculate a punitive damage amount related to "pain and suffering." Seek out a recoup of the $325,000. Estimate the Other Player time at the table.

That may well be $325k over 30 victims. $11,000 per head would bring the average player back to pre-loss state. This guy absolutely should be held accountable.

**ChuckyTheGoat** · 01-31-22, 12:42 PM

Link w/ Polk and Jeff Boski:

**ChuckyTheGoat** · 01-31-22, 04:16 PM

Originally posted by ChuckyTheGoat

Joe Ingram should win a Pulitzer Prize for disclosing the MikeP scam. And commentator Veronica gets high marks for pointing out that something is not right. Veronica mentioned how he never stacked off to the Nuts...and even great players get in sticky-spots that they have to do that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dH5uaaCmvpM

Repeat. Joe Ingram's efforts on this scandal deserve an award. Expose this douche:

**Optional** · 01-31-22, 05:00 PM

Originally posted by ChuckyTheGoat

I understand the precedent the judge used. Surely the INTENT of the law was to protect the casino against players who acted irresponsibly and later regretted their losses. Of course, a casino should not be on the hook for the poor decisions of the player.

The key word I'd emphasize is GAMBLING loss. Gambling loss implies some combination of skill and luck that leads to an fortuitous outcome. Use of an electronic aid violates the spirit of the game. It's no longer a fortuitous game that's played on equal footing.

This guy (Postle) absolutely should be on the hook to pay back his VICTIMS. I mentioned how I thought the $10M value was shooting for the moon. The $10M implies some combination of Actual Damages and Punitive Damages.

Postle accumulated an estimated gain of $250,000, by some accounts. I saw a Joe Ingram post that more accurately calculated this figure at $325,000. My opinion is that the VICTIMS should seek out the ACTUAL DAMAGES of $325,000.

It's very hard to calculate a punitive damage amount related to "pain and suffering." Seek out a recoup of the $325,000. Estimate the Other Player time at the table.

That may well be $325k over 30 victims. $11,000 per head would bring the average player back to pre-loss state. This guy absolutely should be held accountable.

I doubt that statute actually had casinos in mind.

Especially considering the lack of them back in those days in Cali.

I think it was to stop private people clogging up courts arguing over personal bets.

Kind of think it's not a bad idea.

Although also not aware of courts clogged up anywhere else with betting disputes. So maybe it's not needed.

**ChuckyTheGoat** · 02-19-22, 05:59 PM

See this video (from 2019):

If you go to 7:38, they list the Causes of Action:

1) Violation of Racketeering law
2) Fraud
3) Negligent Misrepresentation
4) Negligence per Se
5) Unjust Enrichment
6) Negligence
7) Constructive Fraud
8) Fraud
9) Libel

That looks like a pretty good list. I'd argue that the judge didn't understand the game and was quick to throw it out.

It's amazing how much of a PIG Postle was. In his mind, he REALLY thought that seeing the cards was OK. In his mind, the SKILL factor was extracting the most value (like River-bluffs).

Remember how smiley Postle was 99% of the time? The only times that smile disappeared were:
1) When the video-feed wasn't working, and
2) When his opponent cunningly called him down on attempted river-bluffs.