Do Any Players Beat Pinnacle??

[flyingillini]

Some say SBOBET has sharper soccer lines than Pinnacle

Heavy action and they moves lines alot like Pinny meaning juice

Sbobet is the book I use for all my soccer.

[rowand13]

Good stuff Rowand

They seem to do a lot of volume too

I wonder if those Pinny Leans apply to soccer also?

Soccer is a game of luck more than a game of skill. In soccer, you see a team gets 10 or 12 shots on target and still not able to score, while the other team gets only 2 shots on target and one of them is a goal and that team ends up winning the game. The average number of shots on target by any team per game is roughly what (7 or 8 maybe). In basketball, a team gets about a 100 or more scoring opportunities each game which makes luck plays a minor role here. Also the weather and the referee play a big role on cotrolling outcomes of soccer games. That's why you will often see it very difficult for a team, that is a -500 or -600 favored, to win the game. In many cases, if the big underdog scores first, the big favored team might not even be able to draw the match. That's obviously not the case in basketball or even American football.

For me, I find it very hard to believe that any expert or sharp player would easliy predict the outcome of any soccer match because any team can easily beat any team, ofcourse at a certain professional level. That's why I doubt that pinny's or even other professional soccer bookmakers' leans would apply to soccer. Although I find it apply to a certain degree to less popular soccer leagues (Japanese J league, Australian A leagues, etc.), I don't think nor do I believe that Pinny leans would apply at all to the more popular leagues (England premier, German Bundesliga, Italian....etc).

[WILLIE]

I'd rather take high juice and weak lines over Pinny any day... but the fact of the matter is that we're living in a time where no money is safe offshore. I like their high limits, high volume, high liquidity, and best of all, I like to know that my money is safe as it can be.

How safe can it 'really' be if 90% of players lose money??

[Vaughany]

Only the Americans.

[donkson]

Soccer is a game of luck more than a game of skill.

if soccer is a luckfest, why do the best teams continually win the majoe leagues/cups?

[indio]

Soccer is a game of luck more than a game of skill. In soccer, you see a team gets 10 or 12 shots on target and still not able to score, while the other team gets only 2 shots on target and one of them is a goal and that team ends up winning the game. The average number of shots on target by any team per game is roughly what (7 or 8 maybe). In basketball, a team gets about a 100 or more scoring opportunities each game which makes luck plays a minor role here. Also the weather and the referee play a big role on cotrolling outcomes of soccer games. That's why you will often see it very difficult for a team, that is a -500 or -600 favored, to win the game. In many cases, if the big underdog scores first, the big favored team might not even be able to draw the match. That's obviously not the case in basketball or even American football.

For me, I find it very hard to believe that any expert or sharp player would easliy predict the outcome of any soccer match because any team can easily beat any team, ofcourse at a certain professional level. That's why I doubt that pinny's or even other professional soccer bookmakers' leans would apply to soccer. Although I find it apply to a certain degree to less popular soccer leagues (Japanese J league, Australian A leagues, etc.), I don't think nor I believe that Pinny leans would apply at all to the more popular leagues (England premier, German Bundesliga, Italian....etc).

This just might be the dumbest thing I've read all year.

[Ruifgalmeida]

just because you lost a lot of money betting on soccer that doesnt mean that is game of luck. there is as much skill as any sport.

[durito]

Soccer is a game of luck more than a game of skill. In soccer, you see a team gets 10 or 12 shots on target and still not able to score, while the other team gets only 2 shots on target and one of them is a goal and that team ends up winning the game. The average number of shots on target by any team per game is roughly what (7 or 8 maybe). In basketball, a team gets about a 100 or more scoring opportunities each game which makes luck plays a minor role here. Also the weather and the referee play a big role on cotrolling outcomes of soccer games. That's why you will often see it very difficult for a team, that is a -500 or -600 favored, to win the game. In many cases, if the big underdog scores first, the big favored team might not even be able to draw the match. That's obviously not the case in basketball or even American football.

For me, I find it very hard to believe that any expert or sharp player would easliy predict the outcome of any soccer match because any team can easily beat any team, ofcourse at a certain professional level. That's why I doubt that pinny's or even other professional soccer bookmakers' leans would apply to soccer. Although I find it apply to a certain degree to less popular soccer leagues (Japanese J league, Australian A leagues, etc.), I don't think nor I believe that Pinny leans would apply at all to the more popular leagues (England premier, German Bundesliga, Italian....etc).

so why don't you get rich betting dogs on big soccer leagues at pinny

[lukahh]

there is always a degree of luck in basketball as it is in football.

if in basketball team A has 35% realization of shots and team B has 50+%, team B may win despite less capable players.

in most cases, the market odds are realistic indicator of true odds.

[jjgold]

Every sport is luck except maybe golf and tennis where individuals control their destiny

[rowand13]

so why don't you get rich betting dogs on big soccer leagues at pinny

What does this have to do with the subject here? I was just trying to explain that a -500 favored in Basketball or American football will most likely EASILY win the game. In the mean time, a -500 favored in soccer will very likely have you sweat your bet tell the final minutes, simply because the over/under on most of these games is 2.5 goals, In which case if the big underdog scores first which may very well happen, would make it way easier for you to win your bet had you taken the over 2.5 at -110 instead of taking the money line on the big favored at -500 to outright win the game.

I have had to sweat most of these games and wait tell the final minutes, when I took the -400 or -500 or even -700 on soccer games as a part of a parlay. That had rarely happened taking those big favored in many other sports.

[rowand13]

just because you lost a lot of money betting on soccer that doesnt mean that is game of luck. there is as much skill as any sport.

I agree, not only that there is as much skill as any other sport, but I would say that there is even more skills in soccer than most other sports. What I was trying to say is that luck has a bigger impact on the outcome of soccer games than it has on many other sports. As I mentioned, many factors can easily affect the outcome of games. Weather, the referee, a red card, which team scores first and defend tightly after scoring for the rest of the game,....etc. And btw, I haven't lost a lot of money betting on soccer, but rather won about 65% of those plays. But I have to admit, it has never been easy with soccer.

[durito]

Your point is nonsense. A -500 in soccer wins the same as in any other sports.

Soccer lines in big leagues at pinny/sbo etc are very efficient. You will win if you are getting #'s better than the closers at those books.

[rowand13]

How safe can it 'really' be if 90% of players lose money??

90% of players lose money??? Ofcourse, not.
It is that 90% of arbiters' bets would lose at pinny. There is a huge difference.

[rowand13]

Your point is nonsense. A -500 in soccer wins the same as in any other sports.

Soccer lines in big leagues at pinny/sbo etc are very efficient. You will win if you are getting #'s better than the closers at those books.

Yes, ok they win as any other sport may be. But how many times do they easily win compared to how many times would a rugby team or a tennis player that is a -500 easily win. Percentages are that 50% of these games will be decided by one goal as a -500 moneyline favored would be a -1.5 goals favored in most cases.

[jgilmartin]

Yes, ok they win as any other sport may be. But how many times do they easily win compared to how many times would a rugby team or a tennis player that is a -500 easily win. Percentages are that 50% of these games will be decided by one goal as a -500 moneyline favored would be a -1.5 goals favored in most cases.

What do you mean 'win easily' then? A -500 rugby favorite wins by more points (goals) than a -500 soccer favorite, due to the fact that rugby is a higher scoring sport than soccer?

[rowand13]

Was just saying your 90% number is silly
Try 55%

The 55% might be true for those sides where pinny offers a -112 or -113 line when other bookmakers are at -110 both ways. The 90% number is more than true for those lines when pinny and other sharp bookmakers would persist on giving you the worst price ever compared to most other bookmakers. I swear to you that I have gone on a winning streak of 13 straight wins on one occasion, and 14 straight wins on the second, with 1 loss only and a push on both streaks combined. Surprisingly, most of these plays had coverd easily, usually in the first half of the game. This had all happened in a 2 week period, that I am getting sick of losing all wagers at the A rated book while winning all of them at the lower rated shop. Amazingly, the ratio on most other occasions, has been 8 wins to 2 losses on each 10 tries !!!

[rowand13]

What do you mean 'win easily' then? A -500 rugby favorite wins by more points (goals) than a -500 soccer favorite, due to the fact that rugby is a higher scoring sport than soccer?

I mean that in 50% of soccer games the -500 favored will win by one goal or less according to the -1.5 spread. Do you think, in rugby, that a -500 favored team would be a one score away from losing the game in 50% of those games?

[jjgold]

I doubt 90% of Arbs lose at Pinny

I would think has to be more broken down than that

When Pinny is like -440 and the arb is like +460 do those +460's really win much vs Pinny??

[durito]

they win about 20% of the time

[durito]

90% of players lose money??? Ofcourse, not.
It is that 90% of arbiters' bets would lose at pinny. There is a huge difference.

so why aren't you the richest person in the world

[jjgold]

If you just bet the other side of the Arb vs Pinny it does not win all the time

Its not that easy

[Smoke]

no such thing as a winning gambler

[JK]

Well, like an arber, i need to say that i have a very big negative record there (something like -60k) over the past 4 years. And talking to some friends arbers, absolute 100% has negative record there too, what's, by the way, the only reason arbers are welcome at pinnacle, they are very fast to adjust their odds and you will hit the weakers books in the long run.

I'm an arber too and I'm +1.69% at Pinny in five years period, so it's not that simple.

[jjgold]

JK how many of your Arbs involve Pinny??

[JK]

In first two years I would say it was 50/50 (Betfair was the second one). After that 99% Pinny.
This first two years were also only years in which I was down at Pinny. Most of my bets were soccer bets at this time. In opposite to my current action, which includes US Sports about 9 in 10 times.

[jjgold]

Problem with Arbing as far as betfair most of time is betfair does not have a lot in the pool pre game on the arbs so not worth it

So many like this
146
159
98
106

Rarely do you see 1200, 950, etc

Matchbook you might catch more because it is more of a pree game exchange vs Betfair more of a live betting exchange

[Winner_13]

Ask the ppl who bet the pinny lean in the NFL how they did the last couple of years.


"If the pinny lean hit 55% no1 would work"- Mike Corbin, Player Relations, SBR

[jjgold]

Ask the ppl who bet the pinny lean in the NFL how they did the last couple of years.


"If the pinny lean hit 55% no1 would work"- Mike Corbin, Player Relations, SBR

[shaunovery]

you cant win long term arbing its ok to maybe intially increase your bankroll but long term too much hard work for not alot

[jjgold]

you cant win long term arbing its ok to maybe intially increase your bankroll but long term too much hard work for not alot

I think your right sir

[durito]

Ask the ppl who bet the pinny lean in the NFL how they did the last couple of years.


"If the pinny lean hit 55% no1 would work"- Mike Corbin, Player Relations, SBR

wtf are you talking about

[jjgold]

It's not even about a lean

It's the weakest line that is important vs the market

[Hareeba!]

you cant win long term arbing its ok to maybe intially increase your bankroll but long term too much hard work for not alot

I think for most of us that is quite true. I certainly found that I could do a whole lot better just betting for value than arbing.

But don't say anything is impossible. I've seen posters here say it's impossible to win betting on greyhounds, or soccer, or a number of other things. Just because you don't know the best ways to do those things doesn't mean that there aren't others who've specialised in them and found ways to beat the books and other players.

[Winner_13]

LOL just wanted to qoute a JJ line.
I have not seen pinny do well in NFL the last couple years.

Fill me in