Keith Hernandez

[BuddyBear]

IMGV it's people that me who makes this country great and people like you who i am thankful I only come across online...i am committed to working toward an egalitarian society, working for individual freedoms, limited government intervention, a secular nation, supporting local and American businesses, and social justice causes.

it's apparent that you don't stand for anything other than age-old stereotypes against minority groups.

[BuddyBear]

Greatone...trust me, girls flock to me and even though I don't know you very well i've heard from a very reliable source on here that you are one of the stupidest posters to ever grace SBR. Your opinions only exist in the online world and not the real world. If I didn't know any better i would guess you are an alias of IMGV.

[scottyy11]

what a joke ........
please answer this question below would love to hear your response

bubby what if a player made this comment in a interview after the game, should mlb suspend him????????????? I guess so if I buy your reasoning there is no diofference.



what if a hot dog vendor in the stands said this should they take him to center field for a public flogging??????????????

I remember charles barkley said women shouldnt be nba ref's and caused a similar stir.




stating that she has a legal right to be there ????????????????? has anyone denied her this right????????? no she is still there......now if he was the owner and fired her i would be the first to defend her , this is basically no harm no foul.


what next punishing thought crime.

[The Great One]

Greatone...trust me, girls flock to me and even though I don't know you very well i've heard from a very reliable source on here that you are one of the stupidest posters to ever grace SBR. Your opinions only exist in the online world and not the real world. If I didn't know any better i would guess you are an alias of IMGV.

Ahh, but no examples huh. Typical. Everything I say is 100% accurate. Let me guess, I'm a racist because the running QB's don't succeed in the NFL and I said it, so I'm racist. OR that Larry Szonka wasn't real. if he played today, he'd be a 6th round draft pick and be relegated only to special teams.

Just go hug a tree you pantywaste.

[BuddyBear]

what a joke ........
please answer this question below would love to hear your response

bubby what if a player made this comment in a interview after the game, should mlb suspend him????????????? I guess so if I buy your reasoning there is no diofference.



what if a hot dog vendor in the stands said this should they take him to center field for a public flogging??????????????

I remember charles barkley said women shouldnt be nba ref's and caused a similar stir.




stating that she has a legal right to be there ????????????????? has anyone denied her this right????????? no she is still there......now if he was the owner and fired her i would be the first to defend her , this is basically no harm no foul.


what next punishing thought crime.

no MLB should not suspend him....MLB has no role in this. Listen morons, the NYM are a business organiziation. They employee thousands of people. They have an obligation to create a work enviroment that is safe and free from gender, racial, political, and other types of discriminations If the statement is perceived as somehow derogatory then the individual has a right to seek recourse whether through talking with managements or through the U.S. legal system.

It's obvious Keith Hernandaz is an idiot for making the comment...what he meant who knows but if he apologized and the individual receive that apology in good faith then there is no reason to seek any action which i believe to be the case. It was a poor choice of words by Hernandaz.

What if some guy told your wife that she shouldn't work here or told your daughter you don't belong here b/c of your gender....how would you react? I think you would have a much different take on this situation.

[BuddyBear]

Ahh, but no examples huh. Typical. Everything I say is 100% accurate. Let me guess, I'm a racist because the running QB's don't succeed in the NFL and I said it, so I'm racist. OR that Larry Szonka wasn't real. if he played today, he'd be a 6th round draft pick and be relegated only to special teams.

Just go hug a tree you pantywaste.

Sorry greatone i won't dignify your remarks at all...you are beyond stupid (as noted by certain individuals on here in private) and you have made no effort to engage in real discourse. Your views are horrendously out of date and out of touch with modern views on sex and race. You are merely relegated to posting on forums now b/c your opinions are not part of our society any longer...I am sure occassionaly when the local KKK candidate makes his way to your hometown and campaigns you and other like-minded individuals can go out and support him until then....take care pal!

[scottyy11]

............I cant understand that you dont suspend a player for making comments like that in a interview after the game?? is he not also a mets employee????????????

Please clarify as you give no reason why a player should be able to make public comment but a annoucer should have his ass fired.......both are employees of the mets organization.........seems like a double standard

just be straight with us you have a hate on for keith
no worries i think he was overated

[BuddyBear]

i don't have hate for KH....i barely even remember him.

like i said, the mets have a legal obligation to create a work in enviroment free from discrimination. If this statement was meant as a way to intimidate or create a hostile work enviroment then the NYM have to take action. All members of the organization should be treated the same...i don't recall ever saying players should be treated any differently. Based on that article, it seemed that the players were very receptive to her role on the team.

Look any way you look at it, KH's comments were inappropriate. You guys can argue all you want whether you were offended or not but let me be very blunt nobody cares about your opinoin. The only opinion that matters here is her's and if she wants to she can take legal action. What she does is up to her...

But you didn't answer my question...what if it was your wife or daughter or girlfriend or mother....would you react any differently?

[The Great One]

Sorry greatone i won't dignify your remarks at all...you are beyond stupid (as noted by certain individuals on here in private) and you have made no effort to engage in real discourse. Your views are horrendously out of date and out of touch with modern views on sex and race. You are merely relegated to posting on forums now b/c your opinions are not part of our society any longer...I am sure occassionaly when the local KKK candidate makes his way to your hometown and campaigns you and other like-minded individuals can go out and support him until then....take care pal!

You said just what I said you would. Call me a racist and attack my credilbility because you can't engage in any kind of conversation.

You said there are people on here that think I'm a moron, i'm sure there are. But I know i'm right and I know my opinions are absolute fact. On this thread alone, you have about 10 people calling you a moron. You can't even debate any points that have beem made. You just call people racists and act like they are "out of touch with reality". You remind me of one of those long haired weeny skinny type counselors that tell everyone how to manage their life, yet can't mange their own.

[scottyy11]

to me i would do nothing even if it was my wife unless it was a repeated action......or there were damages i see zero damages. In fact her career has probably benifited from the publicity.

[The Great One]

But you didn't answer my question...what if it was your wife or daughter or girlfriend or mother....would you react any differently?

NO, why would anyone even care? You make absolutely horrendous points and can't back-up any claims you make. i say worse things than what KH said everyday. All is he said is girls don't belong in the dugout. If I was watching it live, I wouldn't even give it a second thought.

People get too damn easily offended these days. That just shows their own weakness and insecurity with themselves.

[BuddyBear]

You said just what I said you would. Call me a racist and attack my credilbility because you can't engage in any kind of conversation.

You said there are people on here that think I'm a moron, i'm sure there are. But I know i'm right and I know my opinions are absolute fact. On this thread alone, you have about 10 people calling you a moron. You can't even debate any points that have beem made. You just call people racists and act like they are "out of touch with reality". You remind me of one of those long haired weeny skinny type counselors that tell everyone how to manage their life, yet can't mange their own.

i have short hair...a lot like Tom Hanks actually....maybe more like Pete Samprass though

I have people calling morons...let's see who...one IMGV the forum clown and resident anti-semite, you the resident racist...i should be able to sleep okay though tonight.

[The Great One]

Why are we racists and now I guess we hate Jews. Hahahaha. Tell me, where do you get this? I've given you facts. You think you make some intelligent points by acting like you are so sensitive, but you just keep looking like a moron more and more by every post. But, what would I know, because according to you, i'm a racist and hate Jews even though i don't think i've referred to Jews once in my 568 posts. I'm LOl as I type this. You are 1 whopping overly sensitive panzified moron.

[Winston Smith]

great Winston...thanks for that meaningless rant....all you loony conservatives are alike.

Who said I was a conservative? The fact that I demand a consistent stance on an issue? I thought that only made me logical, not conservative. But congratulations nonetheless on trying to make this about my supposed political leanings instead of actually addressing what I said. Productive.

Her title is of little importance...the fact remains she has a right to be in the dugout and should not be called out b/c of her gender.

I didn't say she didn't have the right to be in the dugout. I said Keith has a right to make a buffon of himself in your eyes if he likes. He has a right to say something you disagree with without being fired for that simple fact.

I am sure KH would not have said anything had she been a man...

Umm, no. I miss your point. Yes, if she was a man, he probably would not have been spurred to make a comment about women in the dugout. Did you read this as you typed it?

her presence was called out b/c she was a woman. That's called gender discrimination.

No. Not hiring her because she was a woman would be gender discrimination. If she filled a role typically (<--this is an important word in this particular "meaningless" rant) represented on the bench but was not allowed to because she was a woman, that would be sex discrimination. Nothing about her position was altered because she was a woman.


My point, which you seemed to have not read at all was two-fold:

1. She fills a position that should not be represented in the dugout. That position being "masseuse", not "woman."

2. Hernandez has the right to hold an opinion different than yours.



If you'd like to address what I've actually said in my two posts on the topic, feel free. If you'd like to continue to address that which I didn't say or even imply, please refrain.

[Winston Smith]

For the record: I don't find what Hernandez said all that enlightening or inspiring. I'm just tired of everyone demanding somebody be fired or because something hurt their ears. (Think Ward Churchill from your perspective.) Consistent stance, consistent stance.

[BuddyBear]

sorry winston but he doesn't have the right to make comments that create a hostile work environment...he is entitled to his opinions but not the point that it is considred sexual harrassment...you know that though I assume. In American employment law, sexual harrassument is defined as any unwelcome sexual advance or conduct on the job, having the effect of making the workplace intimidating or hostile.

The commetn was made b/c she was a woman and nothing else if she was a man the comment would not have been made. Thus her gender is the central issue. In this instance, her gender was degraded...what he did is generally considered sexual harrassment wouldn't you think?

in response two you two points i really think you are missing the thrust of the debate:

1. It doesn't matter what her title is you need to reread the original article and note that MLB permits her to be in the dugout. That is, she has legal standing to be in there regardless of her gender. It is striclty your opinion whether she should be there or not and clearly you are at odds with MLB not me.

2. Hernandaz does indeed have the right to hold any opinion he wishes. However, those opinions must be called into question when they are inappropriate or serve no other purpose then to create a hostile work environment for the indivdiual the comments are directed toward.

It would be like me going into work and saying that blacks or Asians should not be allowed to be in the same work setting as me.

It's really not a complicated argument I am advancing here. You guys feel free to continue to believe what you want and applaud your new hero Keith Hernandaz.

[Winston Smith]

sorry winston but he doesn't have the right to make comments that create a hostile work environment...he is entitled to his opinions but not the point that it is considred sexual harrassment...you know that thought I assume. In American employment law, secual harrassument is defined as any unwelcome sexual advance or conduct on the job, having the effect of making the workplace intimidating or hostile

Umm, they don't work together. Small technicality, I'm sure.

Unless she happened to be watching the Mets' broadcast in the Padres' dugout, she was none the wiser that he was even in the building or talking, muchless about her. Again, minor issue for "hostile work environment," but who needs facts when you've got convictions, right?

The commetn was made b/c she was a woman and nothing else if she was a man the comment would not have been made. Thus her gender is the central issue. In this instance, her gender was degraded...what he did is generally considered sexual harrassment wouldn't you think?

No. I'd consider it as having a somewhat misguided misogynistic view on life. Distasteful? Yes. Illegal? Absolutely not.

1. It doesn't matter what her title is you need to reread the original article and note that MLB permits her to be in the dugout. That is, she has legal standing to be in there regardless of her gender. It is striclty your opinion whether she should be there or not and clearly you are at odds with MLB not me.

Um....Yeah, I know. I didn't say she wasn't allowed in the dugout. I said the massage therapist shouldn't be in the dugout. If you recall, I said the same thing about a male actor. I never addressed or even feigned to care about the legality of her presence.

2. Hernandaz does indeed have the right to hold any opinion he wishes. However, those opinions must be called into question when they are inappropriate or serve no other purpose then to create a hostile work environment for the indivdiual the comments are directed toward.

They don't work together. She wasn't watching. She wasn't directly addressed.

It would be like me going into work and saying that blacks or Asians should not be allowed to be in the same work setting as me.

No, by the argument you've advanced here, it would be like you going into work, saying that, and somebody who works 3,000 miles away claiming that you've created a hostile work environment for them.

[BuddyBear]

yikes...that's right they don't work together...my bad....that nullifies some if not all of my claims then. Geez...what was I thinking....anyway I am glad you disowned those comments by KH and saw them for what they are worth pointless comments made by an individual trying to reassure his perceived superiority. my bad on this one...i do sincerely apologize as I overlooked an important detail.

[imgv94]

Out of the 258 people that viewed this. 257 have been witness to buddybear's
ignorance. Thanks for showing me what the word ignoramus means.

[scottyy11]

geez i wonder what bubba thinks when a player on another team tells another to go fk himself? talk about hostile work enviroment........i once saw ziggy palffy kiss one of his teamates after a goal that was definately sexual harrassment. lololol

this poor girl dont know how she made it through this...........its almost like kh grabbed her by the hair and pulled her out of the dugout. She was treated worse than a walmart employee and i think when mike high fived her it was sexual harrassment again ......oh that'll be next week

[Willie Bee]

What about lakerfan, Mudcat, OWNED, Willie Bee and bigboydan - should they "use their brains" as well?

Think of me as the Scarecrow in Wizard of Oz, taco...can't use a tool that so many claim I don't have to begin with

I could while away the hours
conferring with the flowers
consulting with the rain.
And my head I'd be scratching
while the thoughts were a hatching,
if I only had a brain.

Now tell me that tune doesn't get stuck in your head for a while today.



What I wonder about is why nobody has mentioned Hernandez' hair color for men commercials with Walt Frazier? Isn't the notion that women are so shallow they reject any man with gray hair while instantly spreading their legs for men who don't have gray in their beards equally or even more degrading than Hernandez' comments about a gal in the dugout?

Or is there the old double standard that corporate advertising can poke fun at such a thought while a baseball announcer can't? If you believe that's okey-dokey fine-&-dandy, then I must object to such debate with the single word, "Rejected!"

[tacomax]

Or is there the old double standard that corporate advertising can poke fun at such a thought while a baseball announcer can't? If you believe that's okey-dokey fine-&-dandy, then I must object to such debate with the single word, "Rejected!"

And what about baseball itself? When Pedro's beaning the batters, doesn't that create a hostile work environment? I think something should be done about that.

[isetcap]

I wonder how many men show up in WNBA locker rooms.

[Mudcat]

LOL! I get the feeling we're winding down here.

[BuddyBear]

Out of the 258 people that viewed this. 257 have been witness to buddybear's
ignorance. Thanks for showing me what the word ignoramus means.

Thanks IMGV...you sure are a great guy. Here is the classic anti-semitic thread of IMGV calling one of the top posters on SBR a jew-bastard. Everyone can take a look at IMGV make an ass of himself and even bash his new best friend TACO.

http://forum.sbrforum.com/showthread.php?t=5773

[Willie Bee]

4. Hernandaz has a short memory....he is hispanic....there was a period in MLB where Hispanics weren't allowed in dugouts...

Let me split this into two parts...

Hernandez is as much Hispanic as I am. His paternal grandfather was Spanish born; my maternal grandfather was Mexican, or as he called himself, 'Texican.' But Hernandez' mother was Scots-Irish; the Irish on my side of the family comes from my father. I am utterly proud of the 'Hispanic' blood in me, just as I'm sure Hernandez is of his. Hernandez has been quoted several times as hating the nickname 'Mex' hung on him because that made him out to being 'California Mexican' as most people assume by his name and birthplace. I can only assume this is due to the same feelings I've found to be prevalent in most Spaniards I've met over the years who do not like to be lumped into some giant, catch-all Hispanic group that most folks on this side of the pond associate with Central or South America.

Secondly, Hispanics/Latins were never kept out of MLB; blacks, including those with Latin surnames, were barred from the majors. Think Lefty Gomez, like Hernandez born in California, Chile Gomez, Mexican born, Chico Hernandez, Cuban born, the late-great Al Lopez, born to Cuban parents in Florida and Mike Gonzalez, another Cuban born player. All of them played in the majors before Jackie Robinson broke the color line, not the geneaology line.

[tacomax]

.

[imgv94]

Time to ignore buddybear now. I think we all should do the same.
He has really turned out to be the worst POS that ever logged in
to SBR.

[BuddyBear]

doesn't matter what you say or how you want to rationalize it Williebee....Latinos who were blacks were not always welcome in MLB. There may have been more progressive policies toward such individuals than some of their black counterparts or less strict rules when it came to Latinos who were black and such....stop trying to rationalize what KH was saying and being an apologist for him.

http://www.aafla.org/SportsLibrary/NASSH_Proceedings/NP1983/NP1983zq.pdf#search='latino%20discrimina tion%20in%20major%20league%20baseball'

[Willie Bee]

We'll just have to agree to disagree on some of this, BuddyBear.

Thought this was a bit interesting once I started to think about Keith Hernandez' Just For Men adverts...

http://www.justformen.com/whyuse/index.shtml

BECAUSE MEN ARE DIFFERENT
Women's haircolor is designed to be dramatic, to help a woman get noticed. Just For Men is exactly the opposite.

[pags11]

this was a topic on Leykis yesterday...was pretty entertaining to listen to...