like anyone on SBR knows what cases the feds are working on. Thats the only thing that matters.
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I'd agree with those who say this won't affect us (well, it won't affect most of you; it affects me because I have significant (to me) funds in these sites; and I'm not even an online reg degen grinder, I just have it on there because I'm retarded)
These poker sites didn't just have US-facing business, they had US banking. And even then, the DOJ could make their move only because they caught the lucky break of getting a huge rat. That's the main thing here: they had a huge rat. Without the kid (Iceman linked the article, Businessinsider I think) the DOJ can't make this hit.
This is not even like Neteller. This won't affect sportsbetting even that much. The sportsbetting sites will be fine. They might even be better off, in that there might be more players on their poker tables.
Also, remember that the best sportsbooks don't really need ANY payout options, just agents for credit players.
May be time for poker sites to switch to that model, too.Comment -
Ask me Monday after I pull out 50% of my cash. Im only funded at one book, and have been there for a decade. I normally get fed ex checks in less than 48 hours, if that hasnt changed I will keep playing.
laterComment -
if you have a significant amount of money in one of these sites. set up an offshore bank account so you can continue to play or withdraw the money.Comment -
This is not like Neteller, these guys are in serious deep trouble. When I deposit at UB with DC, bank was told it was for computer equipment. When I withdrew it was directly into my bank account. This was fraud and on top of that they purchased their own bank to laundry and process the money. I do not believe books will be effected but very good chance ALL of U.S. poker will be shut down immediately. I lost plenty at UB and do not expect to see my money.Comment -
what happen to neteller in 2007? _( sorry to ask i am not american)Comment -
I am not worried one bit.המוסד
המוסד למודיעין ולתפקידים מיוחדים
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I have just read all RIVAL white label casinos have withdrawn from the US market as from today. So it does look like this raid is having a big effect already.
I doubt money is unsafe but maybe it will reach the point where the processing costs get so high there is no profit in dealing with US customers. That could be the biggest problem.Comment -
Voted on the 2nd option but really will only be limiting my exposure to online books that serve Americans atm.Comment -
Looking at the poll, it appears many sportsbooks will be experiencing a minor to semi-significant run on their banks this coming week.Comment -
great poll - thread -thanksComment -
The government needs money so they go after a couple of big players with made up laws. It's an easy way to do it.Comment -
Taking a break until things are a little more clear.Comment -
I agree with BillDozer in that the bigger issue for the future of the industry is the relative ease that the DOJ can seize domain names (I think that was his point).
What's the next logical step for the DOJ if a site just keeps changing its name?
We may see regulation of the internet similar to China in the very near future.Comment -
Feds can seize domains with .com...try some third world domain with non friendly us relations
like cu for cuba or something like thatComment -
Just makes life more boring...Comment -
i think this is all about the 2006 UIGEA act. not only did they violate it, they bought a bank to do soComment -
with the amount of money that is involved with poker and sports, we will have an avenue to make our playsComment -
OMFG POKERSTARS AND FULLTILT ARE SHUT DOWN?!!?!?!
But seriously, Am I the only person so far who has learned this in this thread? lol. Anyone got a link to a succinct article/info about it? Prefer no tl;dr stuff. Maybe someone can give me a quick run down of important facts. Are player funds in those sites frozen and or GONE? And since those two were so HUGE and you got so many online poker *addicts* surely books that have poker (Bodog, etc) will see lets of increased traffic - should already be happening, I'd think.Comment -
They should have closed them down. Online poker is crooked. And anybody who doesn't think so isnt too bright.
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Around 50% of those playing offshore will be reducing their exposure.........that's a big hit folks.Comment -
I used to think that and then after i got used to it, I was up thousands. I've played so many hands it feels like I know what is coming.
I think the software definitely has issues.Comment -
Bodog lost their domain for a little while. I think they set up newbodog.com, then bodoglife.com, and now they're back at bodog.com.Comment -
Fishhead gamblers like to gamble. They ain't going anywhere. Sure some will but not many.Comment -
I think in the near future Uncle Sam will make it allot tougher to move money in and out of books.Comment -
I would be very wary...not wise to spit in the face of an organization that needs $$$ and has a chip on it's shoulder.Comment -
Here are some useful links related to the situation:
The full indictment
The snitch/ story of how the feds got the info they needed to take Pokerstars, Full Tilt, and Absolute/UB.
More on the snitch.
As far as money being safe, Pokerstars and Full Tilt continue to assure players that their funds are safe and secure. I read on 2+2 that since PS and FT are regulated by the Isle of Man gaming commission, funds, as required by the commission, must be kept in a trust that cannot be touched by any government for any reason. Here is the post from 2+2:
PS spend a lot of money on city of London lawyers who advise them on gaming regulation compliance.
They are licensed by the IOM Gaming Commission which is pretty legit and has some pretty strong customer protection regs.
Most notable are the Online Gambling Participants' Money Regs 2010
These provide that all customer money has to be kept in a segregated bank account and is deemed to be held in trust.
The concept of trust monies is very important under UK Insolvency Law as monies held in trust fall outside the estate of a bankrupt individual or insolvent corporate entity and the liquidator can't get his hands on them.
Also as they are not the site's monies judicial orders purporting to seize the site's monies won't affect them.
I suppose the US government can effectively stop payments out to the US player base by banning the banks within their jurisdiction from handling such payments, but I am really struggling to see how they can realistically stop payments out to non-US players of what is legally their money in anything other than the very short term panic that might cause banks holding such funds to freeze funds whilst they go get an order from an IOM or UK court to clarify what they should do with them.
If PS are governed by the Regs and if they have complied then they SHOULD be no issue in non-US players getting money back out of PS in fairly short order.
FT is governed by Channel Island regs which will be similar.Comment -
Nothing will change for ppl playing at Pinny, Greek, BM etc.
I don't know about sites like 5D thou, never trusted them and never will.
These pokersites were full of shit, public TV shows...advertising...illegal banking activities...
The same thing happened to Bodog, to Mr. showbiz Calvin Ayre.
The lesson to be learned here remains the same: Avoid places not smart enuf to at least try to hide the illegal biz they do.
Going with that, it is obvious that f.e. Pinnacle is safer than the Greek. Simply cos Greek still allows US players.Comment
