Rollover bonus requirement info? Need help.

**BigDaddy** · 02-08-06, 11:00 AM

You have to put 5000 in total action, but you can bet any amount you want 5 plays if you want just have to put 1250X4 =5000 in action

**datek23** · 02-08-06, 11:38 AM

I see It has to equal that amount. Thank you.

**BuddyBear** · 02-08-06, 04:16 PM

Datek23...the goal should be for you to scalp that money out of your account and into another.

Since you have $1,250 and you only put in $1,000...you are instantly up $250 but forcing you to roll it over 4x reduces the probability of you keeping that profit therefore the best things to do is scalp that money into another account where you can withdraw it...that's my two cents.

**pags11** · 02-08-06, 05:24 PM

the more and more I realize, rollover requirements really stink, especially at 3x or more...not only do you have to rollover the deposit ammount, but the bonus ammount as well...have realized that in the long run you are just better off at playing with reduce juice books...

**Dead Money** · 02-08-06, 07:00 PM

Screw bonuses.

If I deposit a dime and win I want my 2 dimes out asap. Why get held up for 100 bucks,(10%) bonus?

I could see if you were trying to scalp Like Buddy said ,but Why tie up your cash for a marginal profit?
just my 2 cents.

DM

**isetcap** · 02-08-06, 07:20 PM

Originally posted by Dead Money

Screw bonuses.

If I deposit a dime and win I want my 2 dimes out asap. Why get held up for 100 bucks,(10%) bonus?

I could see if you were trying to scalp Like Buddy said ,but Why tie up your cash for a marginal profit?
just my 2 cents.

DM

DM, you are very good at capping events so you can expect a return simply based on your talents. There are others who are good a capping but only to the extent that they are defeating the juice. For those individuals, receiving a bonus above and beyond the zero sum situation they are generating is real value.

If I am a good enough capper to defeat the juice or come pretty close, let's say I lose 1% of my money overall, then a 5X rollover on a 25% bonus is going to yield me roughly 20% once I'm finished. Plus 20% is much better than minus 5%. Hopefully while you're doing all that work, you're becoming a better capper and eventually you can play like DM.

**Ganchrow** · 02-08-06, 08:47 PM

Originally posted by pags11

the more and more I realize, rollover requirements really stink, especially at 3x or more...not only do you have to rollover the deposit ammount, but the bonus ammount as well...have realized that in the long run you are just better off at playing with reduce juice books...

Here's a link to a post I made a while back regarding the profitability of unadvantaged betting in the face of various rollovers.

More to the point of pags' post, however, the following chart relates various bonus/rollover pairs at -110 books to equivalent lines without bonus and rollover. (Bonus along the vertical axis and rollover aloing the horizontal.)

Example: Betting through a 20% bonus and 4x rollover is equivalent to betting through a deposit without any bonus or rollover at a -104 book.

Example: Betting through a 25% bonus and 4x rollover is equivalent to betting through a deposit without any bonus or rollover at a +105 book (a clearly hypothetical book which would allow you to bet either side at +105). This tells us that even an unadvantaged bettor has a positive expectation with such a bonus and rollover structure.

Example: Betting through a 15% bonus and 4x rollover is equivalent to betting through a deposit without any bonus or rollover at a -113 book. This tells us that an unadvantaged bettor would do better betting through his deposit at a -110 line set without any bonus or rollover than to take this bonus and rollover structure. (Of course if the bettor already planned to bet 4x his deposit anyway without a withdrawal, then he'd certainly be advised to take the bonus as the rollover requirement wouldn't actually be a constraint).

(Remember that this all assumes an unadvantaged bettor at a -110 line set.)

For rollovers of 0x - 10x:

Code:

     |   0x  |   1x  |   2x  |   3x  |   4x  |   5x  |   6x  |   7x  |   8x  |   9x  |  10x
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 0%  |  XXX  | -110  | -120  | -130  | -140  | -150  | -160  | -170  | -180  | -190  | -200
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 5%  |  110  |  100  | -110  | -121  | -131  | -142  | -152  | -163  | -173  | -184  | -194
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
10%  |  120  |  110  |  100  | -111  | -122  | -133  | -144  | -155  | -166  | -177  | -188
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
15%  |  130  |  120  |  109  | -102  | -113  | -125  | -136  | -148  | -159  | -171  | -182
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
20%  |  140  |  129  |  118  |  107  | -104  | -116  | -128  | -140  | -152  | -164  | -176
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
25%  |  150  |  139  |  127  |  116  |  105  | -108  | -120  | -133  | -145  | -158  | -170
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
30%  |  160  |  148  |  136  |  125  |  113  |  101  | -112  | -125  | -138  | -151  | -164
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
35%  |  170  |  158  |  145  |  133  |  121  |  109  | -104  | -118  | -131  | -145  | -158
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
40%  |  180  |  167  |  155  |  142  |  129  |  116  |  104  | -110  | -124  | -138  | -152
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
45%  |  190  |  177  |  164  |  150  |  137  |  124  |  111  | -103  | -117  | -132  | -146
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
50%  |  200  |  186  |  173  |  159  |  145  |  132  |  118  |  105  | -110  | -125  | -140
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
55%  |  210  |  196  |  182  |  168  |  154  |  140  |  125  |  111  | -103  | -119  | -134
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
60%  |  220  |  205  |  191  |  176  |  162  |  147  |  133  |  118  |  104  | -112  | -128
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
65%  |  230  |  215  |  200  |  185  |  170  |  155  |  140  |  125  |  110  | -106  | -122
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
70%  |  240  |  225  |  209  |  194  |  178  |  163  |  147  |  132  |  116  |  101  | -116
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
75%  |  250  |  234  |  218  |  202  |  186  |  170  |  155  |  139  |  123  |  107  | -110
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
80%  |  260  |  244  |  227  |  211  |  195  |  178  |  162  |  145  |  129  |  113  | -104
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
85%  |  270  |  253  |  236  |  220  |  203  |  186  |  169  |  152  |  135  |  119  |  102
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
90%  |  280  |  263  |  245  |  228  |  211  |  194  |  176  |  159  |  142  |  125  |  107
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
95%  |  290  |  272  |  255  |  237  |  219  |  201  |  184  |  166  |  148  |  130  |  113
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
100% |  300  |  282  |  264  |  245  |  227  |  209  |  191  |  173  |  155  |  136  |  118
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For rollovers of 11x - 20x:

Code:

     |  11x  |  12x  |  13x  |  14x  |  15x  |  16x  |  17x  |  18x  |  19x  |  20x
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 0%  | -210  | -220  | -230  | -240  | -250  | -260  | -270  | -280  | -290  | -300
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 5%  | -205  | -215  | -226  | -236  | -247  | -257  | -268  | -278  | -289  | -299
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
10%  | -199  | -210  | -221  | -232  | -243  | -254  | -265  | -276  | -287  | -298
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
15%  | -194  | -205  | -217  | -228  | -240  | -251  | -263  | -274  | -286  | -297
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
20%  | -188  | -200  | -212  | -224  | -236  | -248  | -260  | -272  | -284  | -296
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
25%  | -183  | -195  | -208  | -220  | -233  | -245  | -258  | -270  | -283  | -295
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
30%  | -177  | -190  | -203  | -216  | -229  | -242  | -255  | -268  | -281  | -294
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
35%  | -172  | -185  | -199  | -212  | -226  | -239  | -253  | -266  | -280  | -293
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
40%  | -166  | -180  | -194  | -208  | -222  | -236  | -250  | -264  | -278  | -292
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
45%  | -161  | -175  | -190  | -204  | -219  | -233  | -248  | -262  | -277  | -291
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
50%  | -155  | -170  | -185  | -200  | -215  | -230  | -245  | -260  | -275  | -290
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
55%  | -150  | -165  | -181  | -196  | -212  | -227  | -243  | -258  | -274  | -289
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
60%  | -144  | -160  | -176  | -192  | -208  | -224  | -240  | -256  | -272  | -288
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
65%  | -139  | -155  | -172  | -188  | -205  | -221  | -238  | -254  | -271  | -287
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
70%  | -133  | -150  | -167  | -184  | -201  | -218  | -235  | -252  | -269  | -286
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
75%  | -128  | -145  | -163  | -180  | -198  | -215  | -233  | -250  | -268  | -285
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
80%  | -122  | -140  | -158  | -176  | -194  | -212  | -230  | -248  | -266  | -284
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
85%  | -117  | -135  | -154  | -172  | -191  | -209  | -228  | -246  | -265  | -283
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
90%  | -111  | -130  | -149  | -168  | -187  | -206  | -225  | -244  | -263  | -282
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
95%  | -106  | -125  | -145  | -164  | -184  | -203  | -223  | -242  | -262  | -281
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
100% |  100  | -120  | -140  | -160  | -180  | -200  | -220  | -240  | -260  | -280
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

**Ganchrow** · 02-08-06, 09:16 PM

By the way, due to the fact that if the bettor loses his entire deposit + bonus before the rollover is fully met he typically isn't liable for the additional rollover (and even if he were he could always elect not to redeposit), these numbers won't be 100% accurate. However, this is really only a noticeable effect for bettors who place large bets relative to the size of their stakes. (So technically speaking, the above holds as a strict equality only in the limiting case where bet size approaches 0.)

The lesson here is that if you're just trying to run through a deposit + rollover as quickly as possible you'd be best served to bet in the largest increments you can given your stake and the book's limits.

**magnavox** · 02-08-06, 09:19 PM

ganchrow, do you have a life?

**tacomax** · 02-08-06, 09:25 PM

Originally posted by magnavox

ganchrow, do you have a life?

He might not.

But he's a bloody good poster.

**Ganchrow** · 02-08-06, 09:30 PM

Originally posted by magnavox

ganchrow, do you have a life?

I suspect you already know the answer to that question.

**BuddyBear** · 02-08-06, 11:12 PM

wtf...a poster who provides really good info that is grounded in statistics and helpful to an entire forum is getting called out???? Am I missing something here?

Ganchrow keep up the good work!

**pags11** · 02-09-06, 04:30 AM

ganchrow,

outstanding stuff here bro...I have never seen anyone break it down like you have...basically, unless I can get a bonus that will give me the equivalent of -105, I'm better off sticking to making 95% my plays with pinnacle, mansion, matchbook, betcascade and hollywood...thanks again...

**imgv94** · 02-09-06, 04:41 AM

ganchrow you are the man bro! you broke it down like a sawed off
shotgun!! ganchrow please post more!!

**datek23** · 02-09-06, 08:53 AM

Originally posted by ganchrow

Here's a link to a post I made a while back regarding the profitability of unadvantaged betting in the face of various rollovers.

More to the point of pags' post, however, the following chart relates various bonus/rollover pairs at -110 books to equivalent lines without bonus and rollover. (Bonus along the vertical axis and rollover aloing the horizontal.)

Example: Betting through a 20% bonus and 4x rollover is equivalent to betting through a deposit without any bonus or rollover at a -104 book.

Example: Betting through a 25% bonus and 4x rollover is equivalent to betting through a deposit without any bonus or rollover at a +105 book (a clearly hypothetical book which would allow you to bet either side at +105). This tells us that even an unadvantaged bettor has a positive expectation with such a bonus and rollover structure.

Example: Betting through a 15% bonus and 4x rollover is equivalent to betting through a deposit without any bonus or rollover at a -113 book. This tells us that an unadvantaged bettor would do better betting through his deposit at a -110 line set without any bonus or rollover than to take this bonus and rollover structure. (Of course if the bettor already planned to bet 4x his deposit anyway without a withdrawal, then he'd certainly be advised to take the bonus as the rollover requirement wouldn't actually be a constraint).

(Remember that this all assumes an unadvantaged bettor at a -110 line set.)

For rollovers of 0x - 10x:

Code:

     |   0x  |   1x  |   2x  |   3x  |   4x  |   5x  |   6x  |   7x  |   8x  |   9x  |  10x
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 0%  |  XXX  | -110  | -120  | -130  | -140  | -150  | -160  | -170  | -180  | -190  | -200
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 5%  |  110  |  100  | -110  | -121  | -131  | -142  | -152  | -163  | -173  | -184  | -194
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
10%  |  120  |  110  |  100  | -111  | -122  | -133  | -144  | -155  | -166  | -177  | -188
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
15%  |  130  |  120  |  109  | -102  | -113  | -125  | -136  | -148  | -159  | -171  | -182
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
20%  |  140  |  129  |  118  |  107  | -104  | -116  | -128  | -140  | -152  | -164  | -176
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
25%  |  150  |  139  |  127  |  116  |  105  | -108  | -120  | -133  | -145  | -158  | -170
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
30%  |  160  |  148  |  136  |  125  |  113  |  101  | -112  | -125  | -138  | -151  | -164
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
35%  |  170  |  158  |  145  |  133  |  121  |  109  | -104  | -118  | -131  | -145  | -158
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
40%  |  180  |  167  |  155  |  142  |  129  |  116  |  104  | -110  | -124  | -138  | -152
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
45%  |  190  |  177  |  164  |  150  |  137  |  124  |  111  | -103  | -117  | -132  | -146
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
50%  |  200  |  186  |  173  |  159  |  145  |  132  |  118  |  105  | -110  | -125  | -140
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
55%  |  210  |  196  |  182  |  168  |  154  |  140  |  125  |  111  | -103  | -119  | -134
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
60%  |  220  |  205  |  191  |  176  |  162  |  147  |  133  |  118  |  104  | -112  | -128
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
65%  |  230  |  215  |  200  |  185  |  170  |  155  |  140  |  125  |  110  | -106  | -122
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
70%  |  240  |  225  |  209  |  194  |  178  |  163  |  147  |  132  |  116  |  101  | -116
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
75%  |  250  |  234  |  218  |  202  |  186  |  170  |  155  |  139  |  123  |  107  | -110
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
80%  |  260  |  244  |  227  |  211  |  195  |  178  |  162  |  145  |  129  |  113  | -104
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
85%  |  270  |  253  |  236  |  220  |  203  |  186  |  169  |  152  |  135  |  119  |  102
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
90%  |  280  |  263  |  245  |  228  |  211  |  194  |  176  |  159  |  142  |  125  |  107
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
95%  |  290  |  272  |  255  |  237  |  219  |  201  |  184  |  166  |  148  |  130  |  113
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
100% |  300  |  282  |  264  |  245  |  227  |  209  |  191  |  173  |  155  |  136  |  118
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For rollovers of 11x - 20x:

Code:

     |  11x  |  12x  |  13x  |  14x  |  15x  |  16x  |  17x  |  18x  |  19x  |  20x
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 0%  | -210  | -220  | -230  | -240  | -250  | -260  | -270  | -280  | -290  | -300
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 5%  | -205  | -215  | -226  | -236  | -247  | -257  | -268  | -278  | -289  | -299
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
10%  | -199  | -210  | -221  | -232  | -243  | -254  | -265  | -276  | -287  | -298
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
15%  | -194  | -205  | -217  | -228  | -240  | -251  | -263  | -274  | -286  | -297
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
20%  | -188  | -200  | -212  | -224  | -236  | -248  | -260  | -272  | -284  | -296
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
25%  | -183  | -195  | -208  | -220  | -233  | -245  | -258  | -270  | -283  | -295
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
30%  | -177  | -190  | -203  | -216  | -229  | -242  | -255  | -268  | -281  | -294
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
35%  | -172  | -185  | -199  | -212  | -226  | -239  | -253  | -266  | -280  | -293
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
40%  | -166  | -180  | -194  | -208  | -222  | -236  | -250  | -264  | -278  | -292
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
45%  | -161  | -175  | -190  | -204  | -219  | -233  | -248  | -262  | -277  | -291
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
50%  | -155  | -170  | -185  | -200  | -215  | -230  | -245  | -260  | -275  | -290
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
55%  | -150  | -165  | -181  | -196  | -212  | -227  | -243  | -258  | -274  | -289
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
60%  | -144  | -160  | -176  | -192  | -208  | -224  | -240  | -256  | -272  | -288
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
65%  | -139  | -155  | -172  | -188  | -205  | -221  | -238  | -254  | -271  | -287
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
70%  | -133  | -150  | -167  | -184  | -201  | -218  | -235  | -252  | -269  | -286
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
75%  | -128  | -145  | -163  | -180  | -198  | -215  | -233  | -250  | -268  | -285
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
80%  | -122  | -140  | -158  | -176  | -194  | -212  | -230  | -248  | -266  | -284
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
85%  | -117  | -135  | -154  | -172  | -191  | -209  | -228  | -246  | -265  | -283
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
90%  | -111  | -130  | -149  | -168  | -187  | -206  | -225  | -244  | -263  | -282
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
95%  | -106  | -125  | -145  | -164  | -184  | -203  | -223  | -242  | -262  | -281
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
100% |  100  | -120  | -140  | -160  | -180  | -200  | -220  | -240  | -260  | -280
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks a lot Ganchrow, this is good solid stuff.

**raiders72001** · 02-09-06, 10:07 AM

Ganch- Your chart shows a 50/50 bettor at -110. Can you make it interactive so that guys could punch in a 52% winner or 47% along with being able to enter the vig such as -107 or -105.

**Ganchrow** · 02-09-06, 12:57 PM

Originally posted by raiders72001

Ganch- Your chart shows a 50/50 bettor at -110. Can you make it interactive so that guys could punch in a 52% winner or 47% along with being able to enter the vig such as -107 or -105.

At some I'll try to put together a spreadsheet on this.