1. #1
    slayer14
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    Derek Jeter

    Was he one of the best shortstops of all time or was he overrated what do you guys think.

  2. #2
    stevenash
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    Quote Originally Posted by slayer14 View Post
    Was he one of the best shortstops of all time or was he overrated what do you guys think.
    Top ten, so yeah I guess it's safe to say he was one of the GOAT's, not the GOAT, but up there.

  3. #3
    pologq
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    as a yankees fan i watched him his whole career. i liked him, glad to have had him. i def took him for granted. all those late 90's teams i took for granted really.

  4. #4
    jjgold
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    Top 10

  5. #5
    Bostongambler
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    I wouldn’t consider him one of the best shortstops of all time, but he did have 3,465 hits. Not many can do that. And he was a team leader for sure.

  6. #6
    Snowball
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    Top 10 yes but Top 5 would be a stretch.

    https://www.baseball-almanac.com/hof/hofstss.shtml

  7. #7
    Mr KLC
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    If he was a Pittsburgh Pirate, nobody would be talking about him.

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    slayer14
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  9. #9
    habitualwinning
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    His clutch moments especially in October are more remarkable than his career numbers. He did rack up a ton of hits and doubles though plus a .300 lifetime hitter. What more can you honestly ask for from a SS? He was solid but not even in the discussion for goat. He's a champion's champion just not the statistical goat.

  10. #10
    jjgold
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    He was fortunate to play with a great team and in NY but he delivered

  11. #11
    DrunkHorseplayer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr KLC View Post
    If he was a Pittsburgh Pirate, nobody would be talking about him.
    Exactly, he's the most overrated player of all time and he was clearly juiced at the end of his career.

  12. #12
    stevenash
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkHorseplayer View Post
    Exactly, he's the most overrated player of all time and he was clearly juiced at the end of his career.
    You're New York bias is so pathetic you have no idea what you are talking about.

    You are a joke, I am not even a DJ fan boy but to call him the MOST OVERRATED PLAYER OF ALL TIME IS INSANE.

    You are worse than Thomorino, Thomorino couldn't help himself.

  13. #13
    mjsuax13
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    He’s a winner. One of the greatest ever. He was the steady of those Yankee teams. Him and Mariano. Many great players before them buckled under the pressure of NY. Top 10.

  14. #14
    stevenash
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjsuax13 View Post
    He’s a winner. One of the greatest ever. He was the steady of those Yankee teams. Him and Mariano. Many great players before them buckled under the pressure of NY. Top 10.
    This!

    I even met the guy, I don't like his personality, but to call him the most overrated player of all time redefines the word ignorance.

    Ignorance: Lack of knowledge

  15. #15
    DrunkHorseplayer
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    He played on teams that couldn't lose and he was the one guy who never had to deal with the NY media jackals because they pampered him like a prince. AS KLC stated, if he played in Pittsburgh he would be nowhere near as revered as he is.

  16. #16
    stevenash
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkHorseplayer View Post
    He played on teams that couldn't lose and he was the one guy who never had to deal with the NY media jackals because they pampered him like a prince. AS KLC stated, if he played in Pittsburgh he would be nowhere near as revered as he is.
    So all that makes him the most overrated player of all time?

    Come on dude, you're better than that.

    I don't like the guy too much, he's calculating, never off the cuff, I met him with Jason Sehorn 25 years ago at Joe's Pub.

    Sehorn was cool, Jeter, all I wanted to do was shake his hand, he stared at the floor, didn't give me eye contact, cold as ice.

    Having said all that, he played the game the right way, refused to lose.
    I'm not a fan boy, I'm not a Yankees fan, but he's a top ten all time SS.
    Rank him 8th, rank him 6th, where ever, but know this, and know this well, he is a top ten all time SS, and if you're top ten in anything in life than how the hell can you be overrated.

    Think man, think.
    I don't hate on you, but think.

  17. #17
    jjgold
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    I don’t think jeter won a World Series the last 12 years of his career or maybe more

  18. #18
    mjsuax13
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjgold View Post
    I don’t think jeter won a World Series the last 12 years of his career or maybe more
    Tell us about the last time you won anything.

  19. #19
    JIBBBY
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    Jeter was clutch.

  20. #20
    DrunkHorseplayer
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    Jeter's regular season stats vs playoffs.

    BA: .310 vs .308
    AB/HR: 43 vs. 32.5
    AB/RBI: 9.5 vs. 10.6
    Slash: .377/.440/.817 vs. .374/.465/.838

    He wasn't clutch at all, he simply played in the playoffs the way he did in the regular season but because he had so many opportunities to play in the postseason, he's perceived as "amping up" his game in the playoffs. This is common in baseball.

  21. #21
    DrunkHorseplayer
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevenash View Post
    So all that makes him the most overrated player of all time?

    Come on dude, you're better than that.

    I don't like the guy too much, he's calculating, never off the cuff, I met him with Jason Sehorn 25 years ago at Joe's Pub.

    Sehorn was cool, Jeter, all I wanted to do was shake his hand, he stared at the floor, didn't give me eye contact, cold as ice.

    Having said all that, he played the game the right way, refused to lose.
    I'm not a fan boy, I'm not a Yankees fan, but he's a top ten all time SS.
    Rank him 8th, rank him 6th, where ever, but know this, and know this well, he is a top ten all time SS, and if you're top ten in anything in life than how the hell can you be overrated.

    Think man, think.
    I don't hate on you, but think.
    Just off the top of my head, I can think of Alex Rodriguez, Robin Yount, Ozzie Smith, Alan Trammell and Cal Ripken Jr. That's five that are better than him; there has to be at least five more somewhere. Top Ten? I disagree.

  22. #22
    stevenash
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkHorseplayer View Post
    Just off the top of my head, I can think of Alex Rodriguez, Robin Yount, Ozzie Smith, Alan Trammell and Cal Ripken Jr. That's five that are better than him; there has to be at least five more somewhere. Top Ten? I disagree.
    Trammel was great, Yount no brainer, Ripken was not greater, Ripken will be remembered for longevity and durability only.
    Oz was mainly defense, a little pop, but not greater, greater defender, for sure, all around player, no way.
    Oz will be remembered for being the greatest, or one of the greatest defensive SS.

    The top ten list goes like this if you ask me:

    The list starts with Honus Wagner and Ernie Banks.
    3-8 (in any order you want to rank them) are Trammell, Jeter, A-Rod, Yount, Oz
    9-10 You can put in whoever, Barry Larkin 10th, maybe, Larkin was not all around better.

    I get it, you don't like NYC pro teams, don't let your bias get in the way things really are.

  23. #23
    TheLock
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    Defensively? OH HAIL FAWK KNAW

    But he was an extremely good hitting SS

  24. #24
    stevenash
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLock View Post
    Defensively? OH HAIL FAWK KNAW

    But he was an extremely good hitting SS
    Defensively, guys like Rosenthal tell me (via Twitter) and other guys who have covered the game for over 40 years say Larry Bowa and Gene Michael were tremendous fielding shortstops. Couldn't hit a lick, but both (I'm told) were every bit as good as Oz.

    That's high praise,

  25. #25
    DrunkHorseplayer
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevenash View Post
    Trammel was great, Yount no brainer, Ripken was not greater, Ripken will be remembered for longevity and durability only.
    Oz was mainly defense, a little pop, but not greater, greater defender, for sure, all around player, no way.
    Oz will be remembered for being the greatest, or one of the greatest defensive SS.

    The top ten list goes like this if you ask me:

    The list starts with Honus Wagner and Ernie Banks.
    3-8 (in any order you want to rank them) are Trammell, Jeter, A-Rod, Yount, Oz
    9-10 You can put in whoever, Barry Larkin 10th, maybe, Larkin was not all around better.

    I get it, you don't like NYC pro teams, don't let your bias get in the way things really are.
    Has nothing to do with not liking NYC teams but rather the knowledge that playing in NY gives one a huge advantage in perception of greatness. If Ripken played for the Yankees his entire career, he would be perceived as the unquestioned king of shortstops.

  26. #26
    stevenash
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkHorseplayer View Post
    Has nothing to do with not liking NYC teams but rather the knowledge that playing in NY gives one a huge advantage in perception of greatness. If Ripken played for the Yankees his entire career, he would be perceived as the unquestioned king of shortstops.
    What if Ripken played in NYC and couldn't handle the press and the bright lights of big city ball and wound up hitting .234

  27. #27
    flyingillini
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    A great player but nowhere near Ozzie when it came to defense.

  28. #28
    stevenash
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyingillini View Post
    A great player but nowhere near Ozzie when it came to defense.
    I made that point earlier, nobody that I ever saw play SS was better on defense than Oz.

    Back to my previous point, it's a double edged sword that cuts two ways when it comes to playing in NYC.

    Dave Winfield couldn't perform that well, ask Ed Whitson if he liked pitching in NY.
    He didn't think pitching at the Stadium would be a big deal when he first came over from San Diego.
    Whitson went from a 14 game winner with a 3.2 ERA in 1984 to a hamburger in 1986 with an ERA of over 7.5

    Whitson even said he was wrong, too much pressure pitching in NY that everything is magnified by the press and media 1000 times more.

  29. #29
    yisman
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevenash View Post
    I made that point earlier, nobody that I ever saw play SS was better on defense than Oz.

    Back to my previous point, it's a double edged sword that cuts two ways when it comes to playing in NYC.

    Dave Winfield couldn't perform that well, ask Ed Whitson if he liked pitching in NY.
    He didn't think pitching at the Stadium would be a big deal when he first came over from San Diego.
    Whitson went from a 14 game winner with a 3.2 ERA in 1984 to a hamburger in 1986 with an ERA of over 7.5

    Whitson even said he was wrong, too much pressure pitching in NY that everything is magnified by the press and media 1000 times more.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Whitson#cite_note-13

    The Yankees were just 2.5 games behind the first place Blue Jays in the American League East when Toronto came to town for a crucial four game series on September 12. With the Blue Jays taking two of the first three games, Yankees manager Billy Martin handed Whitson the ball for the fourth game. Whitson gave up four earned runs in just two innings with Toronto winning the game, 8–5, to take a 4.5 game lead in the division.

    Martin lifted Whitson from his next scheduled start on September 20. On September 22, while at a hotel bar in Baltimore, Maryland, Whitson and Martin got into a heated argument that spread to other parts of the hotel and resulted in a broken ulna in Martin's right arm and a bruised right side, while Whitson suffered a cracked rib and a split lip.

  30. #30
    DrunkHorseplayer
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevenash View Post
    What if Ripken played in NYC and couldn't handle the press and the bright lights of big city ball and wound up hitting .234
    Then I would say he isn't a great player but that's a huge "what if"; Ripken did handle massive media attention pretty well when he closed in the consecutive games record.

  31. #31
    Auto Donk
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjsuax13 View Post
    Tell us about the last time you won anything.
    He fared well in the "Tiniest Schshort (Opposite of Schlong) of Lehigh Valley Contest" last year, losing only to fat faced clitturd.....

    placing second to clitturd, he won a free pack of micro condoms.....


    Points Awarded:

    mjsuax13 gave Auto Donk 5 SBR Point(s) for this post.


  32. #32
    DiggityDaggityDo
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    He slayed 10’s. One night stands and sent the broads home with gift baskets.

    That alone should put him in the top 10.

  33. #33
    stevenash
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkHorseplayer View Post
    Then I would say he isn't a great player but that's a huge "what if"; Ripken did handle massive media attention pretty well when he closed in the consecutive games record.
    Please, how much pressure could there be in picking up your glove, trotting out to SS to start a game.

  34. #34
    stevenash
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiggityDaggityDo View Post
    He slayed 10’s. One night stands and sent the broads home with gift baskets.

    That alone should put him in the top 10.
    He once kicked Mariah out of bed saying she's too nutty, or so the story goes.
    Shit, the only way I'm kicking Mariah out of bed is because there is more room on the floor.

  35. #35
    DrunkHorseplayer
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevenash View Post
    Please, how much pressure could there be in picking up your glove, trotting out to SS to start a game.
    Which is exactly what Jeter did.

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