[CWD]

Matt Ryan is not a great qb. He hasn't done shit. That's like saying tannehill is good because he puts up fantasy numbers.
And Chiefs aren't making a run at anything. It's pats or steelers(if Ben stops getting injured). There's no one else in the afc that matter. But since this is not anything to prove at the moment and like many of the threads you make that turn into dogshit and you don't own up to I'll let this one go.
But my original point of Ryan still stands. If you don't win in the playoffs you can not be considered a great qb. Fantasy numbers have ruined people's perception.
As for rivers have you forgot the amount of games he has single handley cost them with late game interceptions and buffoon plays. For a good 5 year span he easily ruined 10-15 games just on absolute stupidity not wide outs.
His first couple years I think he had the potential to be an all time great but he ruined that because we are in week 7 and people blow their loads over one win now we are crowning him. Stop.
Honestly I hate most of the threads you start because you spew out crap here and I know some people like you so they don't call you out for it but you act too much like what you say is fact and not up for discussion and it's garbage

this

[sportsfan9698]

rivers has thrown so many pick 6s in his career that he is excluded from any conversation about anything good ever

also unless i missed something he has no rings

I think Favre is very comparable to Rivers. I have not looked it up, but similar stats I would guess. Favre did get one ring, but that was with a loaded team and Reggie White on defense. His role on that team was more like Peyton's last year. But to some fans Favre is so great due to longevity or they just like him. Favre now has a gold jacket, but Rivers never will. Reason # 857 why I hate every HOF... just a popularity contest

[Da Manster!]

the one main and sure thing you can take from the NFL is that it really is a week-to-week league...any given Sunday...teams show up one week and then lay an egg the next...way too much parity, injuries, motivation or lack thereof, and shitty officiating make the NFL very unpredictable...(except for Brady and the Pats...but they are the exception, not the rule)...the rest of the teams are basically Jekyll and Hyde from week to week with the aforementioned factors.

[CWD]

I think Favre is very comparable to Rivers. I have not looked it up, but similar stats I would guess. Favre did get one ring, but that was with a loaded team and Reggie White on defense. His role on that team was more like Peyton's last year. But to some fans Favre is so great due to longevity or they just like him. Favre now has a gold jacket, but Rivers never will. Reason # 857 why I hate every HOF... just a popularity contest

at least favre was a threat multiple times but he used to throw those crazy hail marys all the time like "up for grabs" grade school level

the first thing that pops into my head when i hear the name philip rivers is PICK 6

[stevenash]

at least favre was a threat multiple times but he used to throw those crazy hail marys all the time like "up for grabs" grade school level

the first thing that pops into my head when i hear the name philip rivers is PICK 6

http://www.cheatsheet.com/sports/the...tml/?a=viewall

Active QB's with more INT's thrown than Rivers
Brees
Eli Manning
Carson Palmer
Ben
Jay Cutler

And Rivers has made all 16 starts for SD for 10 consecutive seasons.
Funny first thing I think of when I hear the name Eli Manning is pick six, and I haven't missed a NYG game in years.

[stevenash]

the one main and sure thing you can take from the NFL is that it really is a week-to-week league...any given Sunday...teams show up one week and then lay an egg the next...way too much parity, injuries, motivation or lack thereof, and shitty officiating make the NFL very unpredictable...(except for Brady and the Pats...but they are the exception, not the rule)...the rest of the teams are basically Jekyll and Hyde from week to week with the aforementioned factors.

And gypsy place kickers show up and hit uprights.

[Da Manster!]

And gypsy place kickers show up and hit uprights.

excellent point, Nash...forgot about that one!...very true, indeed!...

[CWD]

http://www.cheatsheet.com/sports/the...tml/?a=viewall

Active QB's with more INT's thrown than Rivers
Brees
Eli Manning
Carson Palmer
Ben
Jay Cutler

And Rivers has made all 16 starts for SD for 10 consecutive seasons.
Funny first thing I think of when I hear the name Eli Manning is pick six, and I haven't missed a NYG game in years.

take away ben and brees and the rest of that list is trash

that puts rivers in the trash adjacent category imo

[sportsfan9698]

take away ben and brees and the rest of that list is trash

that puts rivers in the trash adjacent category imo

Everybody in this forum seems to always pop off how every QB is trash. That is simply not the case. These are the very best in the world for this particular job. The only QB that I have never seen bashed for his playing ability is Tom Brady. So people bash on him because he is good looking or just they hate guys that excel.

Every one of the those QB's are decent to very good.

[CWD]

Everybody in this forum seems to always pop off how every QB is trash. That is simply not the case. These are the very best in the world for this particular job. The only QB that I have never seen bashed for his playing ability is Tom Brady. So people bash on him because he is good looking or just they hate guys that excel.

Every one of the those QB's are decent to very good.

people dont hate brady because he excels they hate him because the patriots are proven cheaters for well over a decade now but that is another debate for another day

these guys might be best in world at qb and better than average joe, that doesnt mean they arent trash among their profession. and with salaries and politics these days there are many that honest to goodness GARBAGE. just my two cents.

[stevenash]

Matt Ryan is not a great qb.

Really?

Look at the names on this list.
Get back to me when you have a clue troll boy.

Rank	Player	Rate	Years	Tm
1	Aaron Rodgers	103.4	2005-2016	gnb
2	Russell Wilson	101.0	2012-2016	sea
3	Tony Romo	97.1	2004-2015	dal
4	Steve Young+	96.8	1985-1999	2TM
	Tom Brady	96.8	2000-2016	nwe
6	Peyton Manning	96.5	1998-2015	2TM
7	Drew Brees	96.1	2001-2016	2TM
8	Philip Rivers	95.8	2004-2016	sdg
9	Ben Roethlisberger	94.2	2004-2016	pit
10	Kurt Warner	93.7	1998-2009	3TM
11	Joe Montana+	92.3	1979-1994	2TM
12	Matt Ryan	92.0	2008-2016	atl

[stevenash]

people dont hate brady because he excels they hate him because the patriots are proven cheaters for well over a decade now but that is another debate for another day

Also has an attitude, he walks aorund like "I'm Tom Brady and you're not"
Woman i know worked a PGA pro-am event, Brady was one of the amateurs, Brad was in her way she said to him "excuse me sir"
Brady said to her (she does't give a crap about the NFL) "don't you know who I am?" rolled his eyes as if he was insulted.
He's a vagina.

Another reason to hate on Brady is his shit for brains wife.
"My husband can't throw the ball, catch the ball and run with the ball"
People can't relate to Giselle.

Having said that, he does have perfect footwork in the pocket.

[goduke]

Really?

Look at the names on this list.
Get back to me when you have a clue troll boy.

Rank	Player	Rate	Years	Tm
1	Aaron Rodgers	103.4	2005-2016	gnb
2	Russell Wilson	101.0	2012-2016	sea
3	Tony Romo	97.1	2004-2015	dal
4	Steve Young+	96.8	1985-1999	2TM
	Tom Brady	96.8	2000-2016	nwe
6	Peyton Manning	96.5	1998-2015	2TM
7	Drew Brees	96.1	2001-2016	2TM
8	Philip Rivers	95.8	2004-2016	sdg
9	Ben Roethlisberger	94.2	2004-2016	pit
10	Kurt Warner	93.7	1998-2009	3TM
11	Joe Montana+	92.3	1979-1994	2TM
12	Matt Ryan	92.0	2008-2016	atl

Great qbs win in the playoffs, get to the super bowl and some of them win. I don't care about your rating list because great qbs are remembered for winning and him, romo and rivers don't win. The rest of the qbs on that list have Super Bowls so to me that looks like they are underachievers. But like I said in my previous comments you proved me right by saying I'm trolling because I find flaws with your arguments and you act like what you say is a fact when it's more a mere opinion

[goduke]

http://www.cheatsheet.com/sports/the...tml/?a=viewall

Active QB's with more INT's thrown than Rivers
Brees
Eli Manning
Carson Palmer
Ben
Jay Cutler

And Rivers has made all 16 starts for SD for 10 consecutive seasons.
Funny first thing I think of when I hear the name Eli Manning is pick six, and I haven't missed a NYG game in years.

This is another stat that you try and steer into your direction but find out how many of those picks were on one of the last possessions of the game. Ben and Eli win Super Bowls. Philip doesn't. These are facts that result in qbs being remembered as great.

[2daBank]

This is another stat that you try and steer into your direction but find out how many of those picks were on one of the last possessions of the game. Ben and Eli win Super Bowls. Philip doesn't. These are facts that result in qbs being remembered as great.

teams win Super Bowls, occasionally those teams are led by a great qb who elevates his team to championship heights.

often times as in Eli (and even ben's 1st) case championship teams win in spite of their mediocre qb. The folks doing the misguided remembering are the clueless masses who been brainwashed by the media into believing a ring validates a qb greatness or lack there of a indictment in the ultimate team sport..

Eli nothing more than a inconsistent and average at best qb who played on a streaky team that matched up well with the better teams they faced during their runs. Anyone arguing Eli greater than rivers or others is clueless, dude has led the league in picks countless times. Dudes had better coaching, defenses, supporting cast year after year yet never post more than 8-10 wins in a season!

Big rapist has become a great but let's remember his 1st Super Bowl all pit asked him to do was not lose. Don't think he even averaged 20 passes a game that year. Also lets not forget Ben played for another franchise that the model of consistency and stability. Started his career with a great coach who been in league for long time, cowler retires and Ben will end career with his replacement. Another aspect far too overlooked yet every bit as important as who the qb is, at this level all the qbs have arm talent, at least part the difference between great and bust is how good the organization one is drafted to..

Need we even get into the Trent dilfers, Jim McManns, Brad johnsons of the world? Do you wanna tell me somehow they or Eli better than dan Marino? Of course not, and they not better than rivers either..

Can't wait for more of your "facts"..

[stevenash]

Ok thanks for keeping it civil, Ben and Eli had much more talent on their teams, you can tell me Rivers has had a great tight end, and Tomlinson, and a couple of wide outs, take away Junior Seau, name a great defensive player that was a Rivers teammate, win valuable prizes.

The best defensive end SD had in the Rivers era was Les O'Neal, solid but not great, Jamal Williams was steady, not great.

Bottom line, the Charger defenses in the Rivers era have always sucked ass, take away Seau, Merriman, and Rodney Harrison they never had anyone great.

If you want to use Conference champions and Super Bowl wins as a barometer for greatness than you could say Jim McMahon was great. Jim McMahon Bears had super defenses and running backs, and rushing and especially defense wins titles. Oh by the way, Jim McMahon was a clown and a suck ass QB.

Sorry, Eli is not a great QB, he's a good QB that's had only two great seasons, 2007 was a season for the ages, besides the two great seasons he's had he's had 3, maybe 4 good seasons, and the rest have been below average. Take a look at each and every single season Eli has had, take away 2007, tell me what you see? I see a shitload of picks and a shitload of fumbles too.
And remember, Eli has had a ton of help winning those rings. He needed a Tyree circus helmet catch, he needed a Cruz tight walk act, he needed Plaxico to make that end zone corner fade catch. He needed a lot of help. Oh, it helps when you have a granite wall of an offensive line.

You give me O'Hara, Diehl, Seubert, and Chris Snee blocking for me, I can be Dan Marino too (who I will get to in a moment) not to mention Shockey blocking and making catches at Tight End too.
One last Eli comment, his 2013 season was so bad he was ready to be run out of NY but along came that one handed catching freak Odell Beckham Jr. to save his ass

Speaking of Dan Marino, one of the greatest that ever lived, never won a ring. Know why? His Dolphins teams never had a 1000 yard rusher and his Dolphin defenses weren't that good. That's why Marino never won a ring, look at his career, look at his teams, how many 1000 yard backs do you see? (the very last season of Marino's career he had a 1000 yard runner, but he was a relic in 1999 and didn't play every game)

[goduke]

teams win Super Bowls, occasionally those teams are led by a great qb who elevates his team to championship heights.

often times as in Eli (and even ben's 1st) case championship teams win in spite of their mediocre qb. The folks doing the misguided remembering are the clueless masses who been brainwashed by the media into believing a ring validates a qb greatness or lack there of a indictment in the ultimate team sport..

Eli nothing more than a inconsistent and average at best qb who played on a streaky team that matched up well with the better teams they faced during their runs. Anyone arguing Eli greater than rivers or others is clueless, dude has led the league in picks countless times. Dudes had better coaching, defenses, supporting cast year after year yet never post more than 8-10 wins in a season!

Big rapist has become a great but let's remember his 1st Super Bowl all pit asked him to do was not lose. Don't think he even averaged 20 passes a game that year. Also lets not forget Ben played for another franchise that the model of consistency and stability. Started his career with a great coach who been in league for long time, cowler retires and Ben will end career with his replacement. Another aspect far too overlooked yet every bit as important as who the qb is, at this level all the qbs have arm talent, at least part the difference between great and bust is how good the organization one is drafted to..

Need we even get into the Trent dilfers, Jim McManns, Brad johnsons of the world? Do you wanna tell me somehow they or Eli better than dan Marino? Of course not, and they not better than rivers either..

Can't wait for more of your "facts"..

And yet at the end of the day Eli and Ben will be remembered as great and talked about but rivers won't so have fun with more of your coked out responses.

[2daBank]

And yet at the end of the day Eli and Ben will be remembered as great and talked about but rivers won't so have fun with more of your coked out responses.

Only a penetrating retard will remember Eli as great. Prob the same kind of sexually confused duke fan who got married and had a kid but always regrets not coming out with a guy who may or may not been named Eli or Ben.

[goduke]

Ok thanks for keeping it civil, Ben and Eli had much more talent on their teams, you can tell me Rivers has had a great tight end, and Tomlinson, and a couple of wide outs, take away Junior Seau, name a great defensive player that was a Rivers teammate, win valuable prizes.

The best defensive end SD had in the Rivers era was Les O'Neal, solid but not great, Jamal Williams was steady, not great.

Bottom line, the Charger defenses in the Rivers era have always sucked ass, take away Seau, Merriman, and Rodney Harrison they never had anyone great.

If you want to use Conference champions and Super Bowl wins as a barometer for greatness than you could say Jim McMahon was great. Jim McMahon Bears had super defenses and running backs, and rushing and especially defense wins titles. Oh by the way, Jim McMahon was a clown and a suck ass QB.

Sorry, Eli is not a great QB, he's a good QB that's had only two great seasons, 2007 was a season for the ages, besides the two great seasons he's had he's had 3, maybe 4 good seasons, and the rest have been below average. Take a look at each and every single season Eli has had, take away 2007, tell me what you see? I see a shitload of picks and a shitload of fumbles too.
And remember, Eli has had a ton of help winning those rings. He needed a Tyree circus helmet catch, he needed a Cruz tight walk act, he needed Plaxico to make that end zone corner fade catch. He needed a lot of help. Oh, it helps when you have a granite wall of an offensive line.

You give me O'Hara, Diehl, Seubert, and Chris Snee blocking for me, I can be Dan Marino too (who I will get to in a moment) not to mention Shockey blocking and making catches at Tight End too.
One last Eli comment, his 2013 season was so bad he was ready to be run out of NY but along came that one handed catching freak Odell Beckham Jr. to save his ass

Speaking of Dan Marino, one of the greatest that ever lived, never won a ring. Know why? His Dolphins teams never had a 1000 yard rusher and his Dolphin defenses weren't that good. That's why Marino never won a ring, look at his career, look at his teams, how many 1000 yard backs do you see? (the very last season of Marino's career he had a 1000 yard runner, but he was a relic in 1999 and didn't play every game)

My comment about great is that I'm using quarterbacks that have won the super bowl twice to weed out exceptions like McMahon and dilfer. This conversation isn't going to go anywhere because I'm debating with the two guys on this forum that are so close minded and constantly think they are the only ones that are right. you guys can keep thinking rivers and Ryan are great, they won't win any Super Bowls and in 20 years no one will talk about them. If your not being talked about you're not great no matter what stat you want to show me.

[goduke]

Only a penetrating retard will remember Eli as great. Prob the same kind of sexually confused duke fan who got married and had a kid but always regrets not coming out with a guy who may or may not been named Eli or Ben.

But they'll be showing his Super Bowls over and over. What rivers highlights will we see? Put the bottle down drunkie

[goduke]

Also in your comments you said Philip rivers was just missing receivers. What receivers has Eli had during his Super Bowls? You don't win multiple Super Bowls if you are an average quarterback no matter what you have on defense period

[Git Lo]

Also in your comments you said Philip rivers was just missing receivers. What receivers has Eli had during his Super Bowls? You don't win multiple Super Bowls if you are an average quarterback no matter what you have on defense period

dude everybody remembers the helmet catch. EVERYBODY

[stevenash]

Also in your comments you said Philip rivers was just missing receivers. What receivers has Eli had during his Super Bowls? You don't win multiple Super Bowls if you are an average quarterback no matter what you have on defense period

2007 Plaxico played out of his shoes, Burress had 12 TD grabs 4th in the NFL behind 2 shit bums T.O and Randy Moss.
Did you watch any NY Giants games in 2007, Burress had an all pro season.
Armani Toomer was averaging like 14 yards a catch, and was probably the best WR2 in the league.
Shockey was a top 3 tight end in 2007.

Come on man, you are burying yourself in my thread.

In 2011 Victor Cruz was third in the NFL in receiving yards, top ten in receptions, hell Cruz was a top three receiver that season.
Hakeen Nicks was a solid WR2, and Bradshaw was a very good pass catcher out of the backfield who was a top ten TD rushing running back as well.

Eii had tons of options in his SB wins.

You also seem to be forgetting Eli pissed away the 2008, 2009, and 2010 seasons all by himself.

I didn't say Eli was average, but he's neither great or elite, more like vastly overrated.
And if you look at the numbers, Ryan and Rivers had better seasons in 2011 than Eli.

[Da Manster!]

dude everybody remembers the helmet catch. EVERYBODY

and what everybody fails to mention or seems to forget about that play is the fact that Eli Manning was running for his life under tremendous pressure and was able to juke the defender and break away from a potential sack before heaving that ball up for grabs!......IMO, that was much more impressive than Tyree using his helmet to make the catch which was nothing but pure luck.

[stevenash]

My comment about great is that I'm using quarterbacks that have won the super bowl twice to weed out exceptions like McMahon and dilfer. This conversation isn't going to go anywhere because I'm debating with the two guys on this forum that are so close minded and constantly think they are the only ones that are right. you guys can keep thinking rivers and Ryan are great, they won't win any Super Bowls and in 20 years no one will talk about them. If your not being talked about you're not great no matter what stat you want to show me.

Jim Plunkett has two rings and he was barely mediocre.

Please stop, you're making a mockery of yourself.

[goduke]

Jim Plunkett has two rings and he was barely mediocre.

Please stop, you're making a mockery of yourself.

Whatever you say fool. You post a ratings list as your main argument to why rivers and Ryan are great. Yet of the 12 on the list romo and them are the ones with no super bowl appearances. And instead you come at me with a 1970s as your defense when the game isn't even close to the same thing? I don't need to debate with you any longer because you are wrong about most of the stuff you post here and you rattle off a lot of information on here and then make picks that get smashed. So apparently what you're relying isn't helping you one bit. Just go relax somewhere and watch your "great" qbs fail every year. Winners get remembered excluding dan Marino because he was one of the very very few that could not win but still be great. Your two qbs won't be remembered until they start winning when it matters. Put up all the stats you want but if you can't win when it counts who really cares?

[Igor_1965]

My comment about great is that I'm using quarterbacks that have won the super bowl twice to weed out exceptions like McMahon and dilfer. This conversation isn't going to go anywhere because I'm debating with the two guys on this forum that are so close minded and constantly think they are the only ones that are right. you guys can keep thinking rivers and Ryan are great, they won't win any Super Bowls and in 20 years no one will talk about them. If your not being talked about you're not great no matter what stat you want to show me.

This is asinine. Talked about by who? NFL Fans? That team's fans? Pregame/ESPN talking heads? Idiots on sportsbetting forums?

For someone who rejects an obviously subjective opinion and argues it as if it were presented as a fact, you obviously don't do what you preach. If you're going to get into a lengthy discussion, better make a list of definitions and put them in a footnote, or something.

[JAKEPEAVY21]

Ok thanks for keeping it civil, Ben and Eli had much more talent on their teams, you can tell me Rivers has had a great tight end, and Tomlinson, and a couple of wide outs, take away Junior Seau, name a great defensive player that was a Rivers teammate, win valuable prizes.

The best defensive end SD had in the Rivers era was Les O'Neal, solid but not great, Jamal Williams was steady, not great.

Bottom line, the Charger defenses in the Rivers era have always sucked ass, take away Seau, Merriman, and Rodney Harrison they never had anyone great.

If you want to use Conference champions and Super Bowl wins as a barometer for greatness than you could say Jim McMahon was great. Jim McMahon Bears had super defenses and running backs, and rushing and especially defense wins titles. Oh by the way, Jim McMahon was a clown and a suck ass QB.

Sorry, Eli is not a great QB, he's a good QB that's had only two great seasons, 2007 was a season for the ages, besides the two great seasons he's had he's had 3, maybe 4 good seasons, and the rest have been below average. Take a look at each and every single season Eli has had, take away 2007, tell me what you see? I see a shitload of picks and a shitload of fumbles too.
And remember, Eli has had a ton of help winning those rings. He needed a Tyree circus helmet catch, he needed a Cruz tight walk act, he needed Plaxico to make that end zone corner fade catch. He needed a lot of help. Oh, it helps when you have a granite wall of an offensive line.

You give me O'Hara, Diehl, Seubert, and Chris Snee blocking for me, I can be Dan Marino too (who I will get to in a moment) not to mention Shockey blocking and making catches at Tight End too.
One last Eli comment, his 2013 season was so bad he was ready to be run out of NY but along came that one handed catching freak Odell Beckham Jr. to save his ass

Speaking of Dan Marino, one of the greatest that ever lived, never won a ring. Know why? His Dolphins teams never had a 1000 yard rusher and his Dolphin defenses weren't that good. That's why Marino never won a ring, look at his career, look at his teams, how many 1000 yard backs do you see? (the very last season of Marino's career he had a 1000 yard runner, but he was a relic in 1999 and didn't play every game)

Leslie O'Neal's last year with San Diego was 1995, Philip Rivers was 14 years old at the time. Rivers was drafted by Sd in 2004.

Leslie O'Neal was a lot better than solid, he finished his career with 132.5 sacks and had 105.5 in a 9 year stint with SD. O'Neal is in the top 15 All Time in career sacks and should probably be in the HOF. From all accounts, he was as selfish as they come and not a good teammate, which is probably why he doesn't get the love that he deserves.

http://www.pro-football-reference.co...cks_career.htm

[JAKEPEAVY21]

Leslie O'Neal's last year with San Diego was 1995, Philip Rivers was 14 years old at the time. Rivers was drafted by Sd in 2004.

Leslie O'Neal was a lot better than solid, he finished his career with 132.5 sacks and had 105.5 in a 9 year stint with SD. O'Neal is in the top 15 All Time in career sacks and should probably be in the HOF. From all accounts, he was as selfish as they come and not a good teammate, which is probably why he doesn't get the love that he deserves.

http://www.pro-football-reference.co...cks_career.htm

Jamal Williams was better than solid as well but he was not a stats/sacks guy. He was a space eater and routinely occupied multiple olineman so other guys could make plays.

He left the Chargers in 2009 so Rivers only had a couple of years playing with him.

[CWD]

Leslie O'Neal's last year with San Diego was 1995, Philip Rivers was 14 years old at the time. Rivers was drafted by Sd in 2004.

Leslie O'Neal was a lot better than solid, he finished his career with 132.5 sacks and had 105.5 in a 9 year stint with SD. O'Neal is in the top 15 All Time in career sacks and should probably be in the HOF. From all accounts, he was as selfish as they come and not a good teammate, which is probably why he doesn't get the love that he deserves.

http://www.pro-football-reference.co...cks_career.htm

ouch that must have stung

[CWD]

bump for P RIV

[Git Lo]

bump for derek carr. guy has no brakes

[BetterBizness]

People actually watch the nfl ... Live? Not on a scores app? Wow... I had no idea