11-4-05 SBR Bill Dozer reports on Sportingbet

**JimmyRad** · 11-04-05, 07:32 PM

I think it's safe to say any other book this big is a B or better (mostly A's). You'd think this piece of garbage group would want to improve on their C, but no, they're bending over backwards for a D. I think SBR should accomodate them, regardless of how this latest drama plays out.

Kudos to sportsbook.com, the worst site on the internet.

**SBR_John** · 11-04-05, 09:10 PM

I think it's safe to say any other book this big is a B or better (mostly A's). You'd think this piece of garbage group would want to improve on their C, but no, they're bending over backwards for a D. I think SBR should accomodate them, regardless of how this latest drama plays out.

Wow! You are a tough reviewer JimmyRad. This book was so full of themself they would just make up rules as they went. When players complained they were not following their own rules they just shrugged their shoulders and said - "So". They are getting better but this mentality is still there.

**Halifax** · 11-04-05, 09:33 PM

NM

**pags11** · 11-05-05, 03:05 AM

sounds like another book that's making up their own rules if people beat them...

**LGBoots** · 11-05-05, 06:54 AM

If they don't want the players action then they should boot them, but ONLY after paying all that's due including their bonuses.

Sportsbook.com deserves a major downgrading if they don't put this right, as what they are doing is simply theft

**JoshW** · 11-05-05, 07:42 AM

Is concerning how many complaints Sportsbook.com is getting and more importantly the nature of them. I know they are huge book so they will have more issues, but seems worse than usual. Maybe I am just paying more attention?

**pags11** · 11-06-05, 12:47 AM

lakerfan, I agree...it's not like they don't have the money or that they are new to the game...this is a blatant lack of respect for players out there...these guys straight steal from people...

**marc** · 11-06-05, 04:28 PM

Here is my guess on what happened.

Sportingbet in the past year finally started offering Neteller as a payment option. The firt deposit you made into a sportingbet manged account, you would get a 10% bonus. So if you had accounts at 20 of their books, you could get a 10% neteller deposit bonus form each one. Then every time you deposited by neteller yuou would get a 5% reload bonus except on Thursdays when you would get a 10% bonus. Plus they offer 4 free withdrawals a month, and after that its only $30. So I think a lot of players started to realize that it always paid to request a withdrawal. LEst say you have 1k in your account. Well if you withdraw it back to neteller and then redeposit it, you'll either get a $50 bonus or a $100 bonus depneding on whether its Thursday or not. Its the same thing with bodog. But with bodog, they are aware of the problem, and if someone does it too often, they stop giving that person abonus, or they drastically increase the rollover. It wouldn't suprise me, if players who never before were bonus whores, suddenly saw this as totally free and easy money. I think SPortingbet finally realized what is going on. I don't know why they are going after some players and not all. Maybe there was alos something about their style of play. For instance I know one player was playing BJ and war in the casino. Maybe thye consider using the bonus to play low risk games made it more abusive. TOW reported that one player was paying both sides of a game. SO maybe they felt that these players were more abusive or blantant than the rest. Or maybe, they just haven't ogtten around to the rest of us yet.

In any event the message they are sending out loud and clear is that once you send them money, they feel the money is theirs. ANd when they pay you your winnings, its because they choose to make that business decision, but it is not out of any obligation to do so.

**LGBoots** · 11-20-05, 03:42 PM

Anyone see the report TOW has put out on the Sportingbet group of books today?

SB should be ashamed at the way they have treated some of their clients

There could be some serious fallout coming SB's way looking at some of the names TOW have sent this report to.

**bigboydan** · 11-20-05, 05:04 PM

yes LG, i did see TOW's report on them. very disturbing too i might add.

heres what tow reported on there site today in case anyone was curious and, didn't read it there already:

THE NEWS WIRES

11/20/2005
Zero Tolerance Policy in action against Sportingbet PLC

From: The Offshore Wire

Online Watchdog – Players Assistance Services

support@theoffshorewire.com

To:

British Chamber of Commerce

Attn. Mrs. Emmeline Owens

Fax. 0207 654 5819

e.owens@britishchambers.org.uk

Office of Fair Trading

Attn. Divisional Director MPI Mr. Jonathan May

jonathan.may@oft.gsi.gov.uk

I.B.A.S.

Attn. CEO Mr. Chris O’Keeffe

Fax. 020 7881 2695

postmaster@ibas-uk.co.uk

Haringey Council

Attn. Council Leader Mr. Charles Adje

F.a.o. 020 8881 5218

charles.adje@haringey.gov.uk

Sportingbet PLC

Attn. CEO Mr. Nigel Payne

NigelP@sportingbet.com

Cc:

Racing Post

internet@racingpost.co.uk

Times Online

business@thetimes.co.uk

Mirror

Attn. Mr. Andrew Penman

investigate@mirror.co.uk

Independent

businessnews@ independent.co.uk

Megastar

editor@megastar.co.uk

Miami, FL, United States, November 20th 2005

Re: Players vs. Sportingbet PLC – Three fraud complaints

Dear Sirs,

The Offshore Wire is a Watchdog Web site and online players assistance service that caters the gaming community and provides free assistance to gamblers who file complaints against sports books.

In the last few weeks we have been in receipt of numerous complaints with concern to sports books operating under the Sportingbet PLC bookmaking license.

After careful investigation we have come to determine that three complaints received are founded.

Despite the evidence Sportingbet PLC family of sports books refuse to amend decisions taken on non existent rules and maintain their position by seizing a player’s winnings ($7,500 – case TOW/05/314), not returning a player’s initial deposit and confiscating his winnings ($3,000 in deposits and/or $3,305.18 in winnings – case TOW/05/321), not awarding a portion of a sign up bonus initially promised in writing ($500 – case TOW/05/322).

Case TOW/05/314

Mr. A. G. vs. Sportsbook.com (Player’s ID 919251293) and Sportsbetting.com (Player’s ID 344916657)

Disputed amount: USD $ 7,500 in winnings . Books’ action – seizure of winnings

Player’s complaint:

I just got my accounts with sportsbook.com and sportsbetting.com deactivated and all the money I won taken with just my original deposit returned. I called in and some floor supervisor named Carrie told me that I was placing both sides of a game and therefore all my profits would be taken. I had almost 7500 in profits, and the bets that this guy was talking about made up only a fraction of those winnings. This guy Carrie said that it didn't matter and that all management decisions were final.

TOW findings – none of the above mentioned sports books have a specific rule that allows them to confiscate winnings as per the above mentioned events.

Case TOW/05/321

Mr. P. D. vs. Sportsbetting.com (Player’s ID 367516332), Sports.com (Player’s ID 492443810), Playersonly.com (Player’s ID 29975642), Allstars.com (Player’s ID unavailable)

Dispute amount: USD $ 3,305.18 in winnings. Book’s action (Sportsbetting.com) – winnings confiscation.

Or

Disputed amount: USD $ 3,000 in deposits. Books’ actions (Sports.com, Playersonly.com, Allstars.com) – unavailable to return initial deposits.

Player’s complaint:

At the beginning of the Football season I was looking around the internet for bookmakers to bet with during the season. I searched the internet and I found many bookmakers that I eventually joined. The bookmakers in question here had many different websites with different names, so I joined some of them and bet with different ones.

I made initial deposit of $1000 each into 4 of these bookmakers; sports.com, playersonly.com, allstar.com and sportsbetting.com. In the first three I lost each of my initial deposits, but in sportsbetting.com I
won $3305.18, giving me a total balance of $4305.18.

The next day I went to withdrawal these funds and everything seemed to be processed fine, until later that day I received an email saying my sportsbetting.com account has been closed and that only my initial deposit of $1000 would be returned. I called them to see what was going on and they informed me that they closed my accounts because I had more than one account with them. I assured them I only had one sportsbetting.com account from which they informed me that they advertise there business around the internet with different names, unbeknown to me. All these four account happened to be the same company.

I argued, how they could just close my accounts and not pay out any winnings, but the phone operator pointed out in their terms and conditions that accounts may be closed at any time with all transactions being voided and initial deposits returned. Now I understood this to be all transactions winning ones or losing ones, so I believe they should return all my deposits from the other 3 accounts at the very least or pay my winnings from the sportsbetting.com account.

The reason they gave me for not returning all 4 deposits is that I didn’t wager anything in the sportsbetting.com account and they can't return funds when the account balance is $0, as in the other 3 accounts. This claim by them is completely wrong, as I stated above I won over $3300, and wagered almost $4000 in one weekend in the sportsbetting.com account. When I came back to them with this claim they just said no more queries regarding this matter will be entertained and the management's decision is final.

TOW findings – none of the above mentioned sports books lists in their rules that players may not hold accounts at any other Sportingbet PLC affiliate nor none of the above mentioned sports books rules provide a list of all Sportingbet PLC affiliates. Therefore the player is fully entitled to his winnings;

Or

Should the inexistent rule stand, the player is fully entitled to a full refund of his four initial deposits since sportsbetting.com applied the inexistent rule retroactively, which obviously obliges other affiliate sports books to retroactively cancel the player’s wagering activity and therefore entitles him to a full refund of his initial deposits.

Case TOW/05/322

Mr. P. T. vs. Aces.com (Player’s ID 998703378)

Disputed amount: USD $ 500 (bonus) . Book’s decision – will not honor its original written commitment.

Player’s complaint:

The player, shopping for a new sports book to wager with, was induced to deposit $ 10,000 with Aces.com because of this chat he entertained with a book’s representative:

Begins.

Chat Information Please wait for a site operator to respond.

Chat Information You are now chatting with 'Jim'

Jim: How may I help you today?

P: hello. I am looking at opening up an account. What type of sign up

bonus do you offer?

Jim: There is a 15% Free Bonus Cash to your first deposit using Neteller,

******* or ACH!

Jim: (10% with any other method)

P: what is your neteller merchant code?

Jim: You will need to ring in to obtain this. The number is 1888 675 2237

P: ok

P: is there a maximum bonus amount that I can get?

Jim: The maximum is 15%

P: up to how much?

Jim: There is no maximum deposit amount!

P: so if I deposit $10,000 I can get $1,500 bonus?

Jim: That is correct

Jim: Providing you use Neteller, ******* or ACH

P: ok

P: and do I need to request the bonus after I make the deposit or is it

added automatically?

Jim: It is done automatically

P: ok thank you

Jim: Thanks for chatting. We are available 24/7 to chat here and assist you

with your questions.

P: thanks

Ends.

Further to his deposit via Neteller, the player was awarded only 10%. TheOffshoreWire inquired with the book on the case and received the following reply:

Begins.

Thank you for contacting us.

We do apologize for any misinformation which was received by your client
from our Customer Service Representative. This was an unfortunate and rare
occurrence.

The terms and conditions of the bonus, which was posted on the Aces.com
site, clearly stated that for deposits over $5,000.00, the bonus would be 10%.

This issue has been reviewed by our Accounting and Marketing Departments and
the decision will not be revised.

We apologize for any inconvenience caused to your client.

Thank you for your time.

Best Regards,
Hilary

Ends

TOW findings – the player obviously surfed Aces.com Web site and directly asked one of the book’s representatives about their sign up conditions. The book’s representative provided the player a binding offer, ensuring that the bonus percentage agreed upon would have been duly credited to the player’s account, since the player was induced to deposit with this company by the book’s representative initial offer. Under revised conditions (10%) the player might have passed and signed up with a different company.

Once the player deposited bonus conditions were changed to the player’s detriment. This case perfectly fits in a commercial undue practice framework. Obviously the player is fully entitled to his $ 500 bonus and/or to be fully refunded of his initial deposit.

Conclusions

All three above mentioned cases represent a violation of commercial ethics and the company’s stated rules. The financial damages these three customers of Sportingbet PLC incurred into shall be fully compensated by a revision of the involved sports books’ initial decisions.

Recommendations

Should Sportingbet PLC reserve the right not to amend the three above mentioned cases we recommend the following:

Office of Fair trading – open a formal investigation on Sportingbet PLC business practices;

Haringey Council Licensing Board – holder of Sportingbet PLC bookmaking license – suspend Sportingbet PLC bookmaking license for unethical business practice.

Further actions

TheOffshoreWire.com, a division of Web Game Consultants N.V., a Curacao incorporated Limited Liability Company is committed to represent the above mentioned individuals against Sportingbet PLC.

In view of the foregoing we are planning to retain a U.K. based Attorney to oppose the renewal of Sportingbet PLC bookmaking license and undertake all other actions that our to be appointed legal representative will deem necessary and due, including but not limited to request liens to protect sums due to the company’s creditors.

Awaiting to read you soon, I remain.

Sincerely,

Roberto Castiglioni

The Offshore Wire

**TOW** · 11-21-05, 04:52 PM

It has been an hectic morning with concern to the now 4 cases received. To the group's merit one of their highest managers has taken the cases to heart.

**LGBoots** · 11-21-05, 05:05 PM

I think that SB should Clarify 100% if it is ok to hold A/C's with different SportsBooks within their group.

It always used to be the case that this was fine, if they want to change things then they should make it clear to their clients.

I won't be betting with SB again until they clean up their act.

Sportsbetting is stressful enought as it is without finding your A/C locked & your winnings 'stolen' by SB pulling this Multiple A/C crap stunt

**pags11** · 11-21-05, 05:29 PM

what a total scam...

**frankmoo** · 12-03-05, 01:10 AM

Re; Sportsbook.com disputes

Originally posted by bigboydan

yes LG, i did see TOW's report on them. very disturbing too i might add.

heres what tow reported on there site today in case anyone was curious and, didn't read it there already:

okay , First of all I want to say that I know this post is going to create a backlash. But that is not my intention, just hear me out and take it into consideration.

As far as the first complaint goes:

the players account were frozen and $7500 taken away. The reason given was because the player bet both sides of the game. The player admits he did this but claims it was only a fraction of the wagering he did.
Now I know from time to time Sportsbook gives free wagers. What if the player bet both sides of these free wagers to guarantee a profit. Then after doing this several times took the money (which is essentially stolen ) and managed to go on an amazing hot streak and turned the money into $7500 worth of profit?? Now I know your probably thinking this is impossible but you can turn $20 at the blackjack table into a couple hundred easily (if your alot luckier than I am). Once you have a coouple of hundred dollars $7500 is possible. Maybe he got really lucky and hit a 7 or 8 game parlay???? But if his winnings came solely because of money which was essentially stolen by abusing the free wagers then he doesn't deserve the money.
Now I'm not saying this is what happened just saying its possible. But if you want more clarification write an email to their customer service and request a FULL wager history. I've requested this before, they will send you an excel spreadsheet with ever single wager you made and balance before the wager and after the wager. I have a copy of my wager history I requested about 2 months ago it was after a very aggressive weekend ( FULL WEEKEND) at the blackjack table. They emailed me the file and it was an excel speadsheet , the file size is 1,112 KB. That is a very big excel file it has 8711 wagers made. That is 99% hands of blackjack but it has a record of every hand I played with the balance. But when you get this casino history you can track all the bets made, then you will be able to tell if this player abused a bonus to attain a small amount of startup money to fund his hot streak.\

Okay lets take complaint #2
This one is easy......
The player claims he didn't know that all the sites are under the same company... BULL SH** (sorry I don't have that neat little brown icon everyone plugs into their posts)

When you look at all the sportingbet web sites they are so similar how could you not know specially when you place a wager and confirm your wager by typing YES into that little box. Plus the "BETTING TICKET" where they show your name account # and balance is exactly the same on everyone of thier websites...Oh wait a minute no its not,some sites have it on the right while others have it on the left...

So anyway this guy probably opened his account like he said at the beggining of the football season. Now anyone familiar with sportsbook knows they have 5% juice promotions. Plus they offer a juiceless college football game on Sat.
So he says he deposited $1000 into four different sportsbooks. So he has $1100 in each account ( remember the 10% signup bonus they offer) Wagers 2 accounts against each other (Bets both sides of the same game) during a 5% juice promotion. And then wagers the other two accounts against each other also during the 5% juice promotion. $1100 wager at 5% juice wins about $1048. So after this is done he has two accounts left, both with $2148.
Then he bets these two accounts against each other during the Sat. Juiceless game of the week. $2148 @ 0% juice wins $2148. So now he has 1 account left with $4296. $3296 of that would be considered his winnings in that account. The dispute was for I think $3304 or something very close. So my numbers don't match up perfectly just throw in a winning hand of blackjack or some other casino game, and you might be exactly where you need to be.
I guess this could be just a coincedence, but I think its more than that.
So when they looked at his accounts next to each other it was easy because the accounts (all in the same name) had the exact opposite bets placed. So they player who was trying to turn his $4000 into $4300 in one week with no risk got busted, they got angry and taught him a very expensive lesson. Now I feel bad because the player lost his $3000 but he was trying to beat them out of $300. You may say $300 isn't alot for SBT but what if 100 people did this every week? Now its alot of money. So they wanted to teach him an expensive lesson so he won't try it again. And I'm willing to make a wager, that he hasn't tried to beat them for $300 again. I can't be sure this happened but I'm pretty sure, because the numbers just add up too well.

Okay complaint #3...

This one is where you see the downside of dealing with a sportsbook that outsources their customer service. The rule I'm sure was legit because I know alot of their web sites have a similar rule. But the problem is customer service gave the player bad info. This same exact thing has happened to me also. But mine situation was slightly different, I was told I wagered enough to withdraw my money and not lose a referral bonus I received. So I withdrew the money and they deducted the referral bonus i received. I sent them copies of the chat wher their customer service told me I could withdraw the money. But nothing changed they hit me with that Line: all decisions by management are final. So I had to eat that bonus ( for me wasn't a big deal only $100). These kind of problems are unacceptable, but its very simple why they never get resolved. 99% of the time these issues arise because most of the customer service reps are incompetant. They deal with so many different websites that SBT is affiliated with and almost all of the web sites have various rules to their bonus policies. So when they mess up what happens? The player writes an email to who ... the customer service reps. Then a customer service supervisor reviews it and notices one of his reps messed up. So now whats he do? Does he tell the owner of the website ( the person who pays a percent of their profits to SBT for the use of all of their services, one of which is the customer service call center) that he has to honor the misinformation given by the incompetant rep and eat the $500? They wouldn't do this, because the owner would tell them its not my fault you guys messed up, i pay you guys to do a service now get it right. So then SBT could eat it themselves and pay the extra bonus money, but why would they do that. They don't care if the customer gets mad and leaves, becaus eif they do 99% of the players wouldn't get angry at SBT they would get angry at the web site. Then they would leave that site and go to another. With a good chance of going to another SBT affiliate because they are so many of them.

But I honestly believe if this complaint gets to upper management in SBT that the player will receive the bonus he was promised. But we'll have to wait and see about this.

I'm sure anyone who reads this will think I work for SBT or that I taking the side of the SPortsbook over the player.
I just want people to consider all the possibilities.
I don't think Sportsbook.com will steal anyones money.
I have dealt with them a long time and never had a problem.
As a matter of fact my friend won a contest from them last year. He had the most referrals to their site for the year of 2004. He won a 2 year lease on a Porsche Cayenne. I went with him the day he went to the Porsche dealership to pick it out. The lease cost Sportsbook $21,000. My friend won that prize for referring 13 people to their website. Yes thats right 13 people and he won a porsche for the most referrals. Now don't you think that if the were out to rob people that when they noticed they were about to pay out $21,000 for 13 referrals they would have came up with some reason to renig???
But they didn't I see him every SUN. we wAtch football together, with his porsche sitting in front of his house.

I hope no one takes offense to this post I'm not trying to discredit anyone. But the people who are out their trying to take advantage of the bonuses only hurts all of us. Because it will only make the companies change their policies on bonuses which will effect us all.

Anyone who takes the time to read this long winded post, I apoligize for my lack of spelling and grammar, I'm only a prison guard and my writing skills are a little rusty.

Thanks ,
Frankmoo

I will say becauase of the size of SBT you will ahve a problem with the customer service being average at best. As well as the payments being slow. They process all of their payouts (well at least all of their check payments) from the same palce, somewhere in Vancouver Canada I believe.

**natrass** · 12-03-05, 04:02 AM

1. The book is 100% responsible for their CS. If their CS is ripping off customers, then so is the book.

2. The punter should not be expected to investigate ewhich company is related tow hich, etc. If it is an issue for the books then they should simply state they are affiliates. How hard is that ?

3. You make a lot of assumptions, all of them assuming the player is bad. Makes me suspicious.

4. Your "friend" story is hilarious. A bit blatent there.

**frankmoo** · 12-03-05, 04:45 AM

Re: sportsbook.com complaints

Originally posted by natrass

1. The book is 100% responsible for their CS. If their CS is ripping off customers, then so is the book.

2. The punter should not be expected to investigate ewhich company is related tow hich, etc. If it is an issue for the books then they should simply state they are affiliates. How hard is that ?

3. You make a lot of assumptions, all of them assuming the player is bad. Makes me suspicious.

4. Your "friend" story is hilarious. A bit blatent there.

I;m aware that it seems I'm blaming the player. I only blamed the player i the second complaint. I said the first complaint you can tell by checking their wager history. And the third complaint I said I thought was defintly legit because I had a similar problem.
And I never said they are not responsible for their customer service, I simply meant that the issue is going to get kicked back and forth with no one wanted to take resposibility.

Can I just ask what you meant by blatant about my "friend" story
I'm not bullSh**ing
I type about 20 words aminute I don't have the patience to sit on forums and type at that rate of speed just for sh**s and giggles

**why** · 12-03-05, 12:30 PM

Have you downgraded them to an F yet?

**natrass** · 12-03-05, 01:11 PM

Frankmoo ... I appreciate what your saying but ...

... maybe Im old fashioned but I really dont think the onus is necessarily on the player to manage the book and its website.

Basically, the book appears to have made a no-risk profit.

As I say, I think you have been very hard on the player and extremely sympathetic to the book.

I personally think if the player was playing both sides then it is poor play on his part but should the book profit? No way.

The books CS basically made false claims to get a deposit ... should the book profit from this? No way.

The book has numerous unidentified affiliates which it does not identify to the punter. Should the book profit from this? No way.

I think thats common sense.

**Illusion** · 12-04-05, 03:20 AM

SBR Bill Dozer reports: Problems continue for bettors with books under the Sportingbet umbrella. Although management has resolved some individual complaints, the book continues to unjustly debit accounts. Current complaints include voided winning wagers, the closure of accounts and confiscation of player profits from those accounts, and the seizing of earned bonuses. The majority of gamblers will not experience similar issues although it should be noted that bettors who successfully utilize the company’s promotions may be severely penalized without warning.

Player reports AllProSportsbook(SBR rating D+) confiscating funds and ignoring emails.
Hi, this is my first time sending you (sportsbookreview.com) E-mail. I have an account in Allprosportsbook.com. I have been using this account since August 2005. But recently, this company gave me some hard time. They paid slow, E-mail no reply and deducted all of my bonus in my account eventhought I have covered the rollerover requirement. But that wasn’t a big deal. I don’t really care about the bonus, I also told them I do not want any further bonus in my account. After then, I only deposited twice and received $77.50 automatically right after. Then I kept wagering a lot and requested a payout. at that payout, They also deducted the $77.50 bonus. that’s fine! after then I still wagered for a while without any deposit. then I requested another payout. But they still deducted the same amount of $77.50. That’s my money, not the bonus. Then I talked the live chat person, and he said they will check for me. I also send that company an E-mail about thit case. so far they still haven’t replied me. I have no idea if they return me $77.50 or not. They might have system error or they don’t even care of their clients money. If I make another withdrawl next time. I might still have money deducted.

**natrass** · 12-04-05, 04:16 AM

Sounds like its easier to win a Porsche than get a fair deal with them!!