Is it possible for a pitcher to pitch a perfect game and lose? (Not a trick question)

**johnnyvegas13** · 04-01-23, 08:55 AM

I dunno nash

whar r ur fibal four plays???

**ChuckyTheGoat** · 04-01-23, 09:01 AM

Originally posted by stevenash

Is it possible for a pitcher to pitch a perfect game and lose?

The answer is NO.

Baseball has a long history, though. Invariably, there are asterisks to these things.

First game that came to mind was the Harvey Haddix game. Guy threw TWELVE perfect innings. Finally conceded in the 13th.

*How can a guy throw the best game in MLB history and be the Losing Pitcher in the boxscore?

SI did a great article on the game in 2009:

The Greatest Game Ever Pitched

https://vault.si.com/vault/2009/06/01/the-greatest-game-ever-pitched

**str** · 04-01-23, 09:03 AM

Originally posted by stevenash

Is it possible for a pitcher to pitch a perfect game and lose?

9 innings? No.

Pretty sure the pitcher gets credit for the 9 inning perfecto but I suppose he could still lose in extras. I'd have to check the terminology to be sure though.

**JAKEPEAVY21** · 04-01-23, 09:05 AM

No

A perfect game means no baserunners whatsoever. It's impossible to lose when no runners reach base.

**ChuckyTheGoat** · 04-01-23, 09:08 AM

Pedro Martinez had a similar game in 1995:

So when the top of the 10th began, Martínez became the second pitcher in history – following Harvey Haddix on May 26, 1959 – to take a perfect game into extra innings.

**JIBBBY** · 04-01-23, 09:27 AM

Degrom is a pitcher that could find a way to lose in a perfect game pitched..

**Covering the #** · 04-01-23, 09:27 AM

Originally posted by stevenash

Is it possible for a pitcher to pitch a perfect game and lose?

The answer is yes. Would have to be in extra innings. The ghost runner in extra innings being the key factor.

**ChuckyTheGoat** · 04-01-23, 09:38 AM

Originally posted by Covering the #

The answer is yes. Would have to be in extra innings. The ghost runner in extra innings being the key factor.

Good answer. One more reason I dislike that rule.

**JAKEPEAVY21** · 04-01-23, 09:41 AM

Originally posted by Covering the #

The answer is yes. Would have to be in extra innings. The ghost runner in extra innings being the key factor.

I'm not sure an extra inning game fits the definition of a perfect game but if so, then your scenario would be the loophole.

**Getch13** · 04-01-23, 09:42 AM

Originally posted by JAKEPEAVY21

No

A perfect game means no baserunners whatsoever. It's impossible to lose when no runners reach base.

What he said.

**stevenash** · 04-01-23, 09:59 AM

Originally posted by Covering the #

The answer is yes. Would have to be in extra innings. The ghost runner in extra innings being the key factor.

Correct.

The perfection of pitching a perfect game is in preventing all opposing batters from reaching base by any means.
Every batter is retired before reaching first base, perfect, correct?

Now, Manfred in his infinite wisdom (that's sarcasm fellas) in 2020 thought it would be a brilliant idea to start all top halves of extra innings with a 'free runner' at second base.

The runner is placed there, the starting pitcher had nothing to do with that runner.
Perfect pitcher still on the mound, free runner at second base, no outs, first batter hits a worm killer to 2B, tosses to 1B, one out, runner on second advances to third base..

Next batter lofts a routine fly ball to center field, caught, runner scores on third scores via sac fly on a close call at home plate, 1-0 now, two outs, the next batter whiffs for the final out.

By definition pitcher pitches a perfect game but loses 1-0 since his team failed to tie or go ahead in the bottom of the extra inning.

Reason #48 why I hate the rule changes, and reason #82 why I dislike the simpleton that is Rob Manfred.

**ChuckyTheGoat** · 04-01-23, 10:03 AM

Good one, Nashy.

I'll add another asterisk. *

*Baseball history is directly linked to the statistics.

So, the Extra Inning run allowed factors into the Pitcher's ERA? More like a carnival game than baseball.

**OldBill** · 04-01-23, 10:32 AM

no a perfect game means no body got to 1st base

but non perfect game that nobody hit the hit ball they can lose giving up 4 walks in 1 inning hasnt happened often but it can

**stevenash** · 04-01-23, 10:58 AM

Originally posted by OldBill

no a perfect game means no body got to 1st base

but non perfect game that nobody hit the hit ball they can lose giving up 4 walks in 1 inning hasnt happened often but it can

Huh?

**ChuckyTheGoat** · 04-01-23, 11:00 AM

Originally posted by stevenash

Huh?

Think he's talking about the prospect of a pitcher throwing a No-Hitter...but losing the game. Has happened.

Billy has shown that he's sometimes in his own world. He's special.

**DrunkHorseplayer** · 04-01-23, 11:22 AM

Thanks solely to the designated runner in extra innings, it is possible to pitch a perfecto and lose; the run does not count against a pitcher's ERA.

**pavyracer** · 04-01-23, 11:28 AM

Maybe if both pitchers pitch a perfect game and the winner is declared by coin toss after a 0-0 game that lasted 3 days with each pitcher throwing 1000 pitches and noone reached base.

**stevenash** · 04-01-23, 11:37 AM

Originally posted by pavyracer

Maybe if both pitchers pitch a perfect game and the winner is declared by coin toss after a 0-0 game that lasted 3 days with each pitcher throwing 1000 pitches and noone reached base.

Look up the game between Yale and St. John's.
The starters were Ron Darling for Yale and Frank Viola for St. Johns.

Never mind, I'll do it for you, saves time that way.

Not a perfecto by both pitchers mind you, but your post conjured up memories of this game.

The greatest college baseball game ever: 'The heartache is what made it more memorable'

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/baseball/story/_/id/31474244/ron-darling-frank-viola-ncaa-baseball-greatest-game-ever-40-years-on

Two future major league star pitchers squared off in the college baseball postseason 40 years ago. One pitched no-hit ball for 11 innings. The other got the win.

**Covering the #** · 04-01-23, 12:01 PM

Originally posted by stevenash

Correct.

The perfection of pitching a perfect game is in preventing all opposing batters from reaching base by any means.
Every batter is retired before reaching first base, perfect, correct?

Now, Manfred in his infinite wisdom (that's sarcasm fellas) in 2020 thought it would be a brilliant idea to start all top halves of extra innings with a 'free runner' at second base.

The runner is placed there, the starting pitcher had nothing to do with that runner.
Perfect pitcher still on the mound, free runner at second base, no outs, first batter hits a worm killer to 2B, tosses to 1B, one out, runner on second advances to third base..

Next batter lofts a routine fly ball to center field, caught, runner scores on third scores via sac fly on a close call at home plate, 1-0 now, two outs, the next batter whiffs for the final out.

By definition pitcher pitches a perfect game but loses 1-0 since his team failed to tie or go ahead in the bottom of the extra inning.

Reason #48 why I hate the rule changes, and reason #82 why I dislike the simpleton that is Rob Manfred.

I will add another possible scenario that could happen. A forfeit due to any number of reasons.

**Ghenghis Kahn** · 04-01-23, 12:26 PM

Perfect game means 0 0 0 on the box score so when it's 1 0 0, no. When there's a score it's not a perfect game.

Hence, no hitter yes, perfect no...

**Otters27** · 04-01-23, 01:22 PM

Runner bunts guy over. Then sac fly in bottom of 10

**JAKEPEAVY21** · 04-01-23, 02:03 PM

Whether the run scores or not in extra innings, a runner was on base.

That alone would kill the perfect game, no?

**stevenash** · 04-01-23, 03:10 PM

Originally posted by JAKEPEAVY21

Whether the run scores or not in extra innings, a runner was on base.

That alone would kill the perfect game, no?

Rob Manfred put him on second base, not the pitcher though.

**jackpot269** · 04-01-23, 04:11 PM

Originally posted by Covering the #

The answer is yes. Would have to be in extra innings. The ghost runner in extra innings being the key factor.

That was my answer he steals all the way home

**jackpot269** · 04-01-23, 04:12 PM

Just a guess no rules expert here

**JAKEPEAVY21** · 04-02-23, 07:26 AM

Originally posted by stevenash

Rob Manfred put him on second base, not the pitcher though.

Does it matter?

A runner is on base, is it still considered a perfect game?

**DrunkHorseplayer** · 04-02-23, 08:20 AM

Yes, it is considered a perfect game under baseball rules.

**stevenash** · 04-02-23, 09:02 AM

^
Yes