[stevenash]

Originally posted on 07/26/2014:

oh, I agree...but unfortunately for the Bravos of the 90's they were in that 3% category of teams that had great pitching but couldn't win the big one (yes, they did in 1995 but should have had a helluva lot more with that staff)...Let me ask you this: How much did managing have to do with it?!...Yanks won like what four titles with Joe Torre?!...what if those Braves teams had him as their manager instead of Bobby Cox?!...would it have been any different in your opinion?!

I will answer your question last.

I remember the quote, I forgot who is attributed to it, either Sparky Anderson, or Earl Weaver who said "a good manager is worth at most five extra wins a season.

In my lifetime, I have never seen a flawless manager, for instance, Torre would lean too heavy on the bullpen.
Well Torre had Mo, but he burnt out his set up guys. But Torre was great in so many ways, he shielded his men from all the NYC distractions, told George, you give me the bullshit, lay off of my guys.

Earl Weaver relied too much on the 3 run bomb, that was his philosopy, play for the big inning.
In a way he's right, stats show a team the wins a ball game more times than not scores more runs in one inning than the losing team scores all game. That percentil is in the mid 60's.

Now the opposite of Weaver was who historians tell me, and from the books I read, was John McCraw, who most say was the greatest manager of all time.

They say he recognized the dead ball, and taught, and played small ball. McCraw loved to hit and run, and that's the style I love the best myself.

In a perfect world, the perfect lineup would be a hight OBA guy with wheels leading off.

If he gets on, 1B has to hold him to the bag, that's why I want the best stick man I could possibly have in the two hole. You get a speed demon on base, with a guy who can handle the bat, a contact guy, my goodness, the possibilites are endless. a) hit and run - man in motion, first baseman by the bag, you got yourself a hole between first and second the size of Texas, the stick man, the best in the game right now at shooting the ball that way is Hunter Pence, (Jeter in his prime was amazing at that) can easily single. First and third, no outs. You want your power guys 3-4-5, or if you got a good OBA guy with a little pop, bat him five, and put the power guys six.

Small ball is where it's at, I want OBA guys. Can't score a run, if you can't get on base.
John McCraw knew that 100 years ago, no computer, no eye in the sky, no 1000 page notebooks, he 'got it' probably the first ever who 'got it'

You hear how great Joe McCarthy was, but he had Gehrig, Ruth, Murderers Row, so he played the long ball, but when you get right down to it, he was a push button manager, which was LaRussa's style with Mac and Canseco.

Connie Mack, books say he was the smartest manager ever.
See all this shifting going on today, Mack was the first to reposition players during the course of the game, and that was 100 years ago, with teams not as talented as NY with Ruth, because the A's had little money. But Mack was a genius and worked with what he had, whic wasn't much.

Modern day era:

Torre knew how to 'manage' each and every player in the dugout, who to give it to hard, who to use the kid glove approach on, the best ever at managing the 'modern stars'

LaRussa, first ever to bring the computer into the game. He was doing the computer stats while Billy Beane was failing to make the Mets squad, Billy-ball came five years later after LaRussa was doing the computer thing. But was a push button manager when you get right down to it.

Sparky, won rings as a manager in both leagues.
He'll be remembered as the guy who first started using the 'bridge' to the closer, and forever changed the way the bullpen was used. Pretty much ended the 4 man rotation.
His Tiger teams had four guys who could close, or set up, each one could pitch 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th.

Can you name them?

Eastwick did the bulk of the closing, Will McEneary, was the co-closer so to speak, he was 8th inning
guy, closer when Rawley Eastwick was not available, then there was Pedro Borbon, and Clay Carol, and Pedro Borbon, one of the first to go to a five man rotation, four man rotation was still the style, Sparky killed that.
Starters went half the game, bull pen went second half, but would not pull a starter if he was dealing, he'd let then go the whole nine yards.

Bobby Cox was your guy huh?
Here's the thing with Cox, loved his in your face, I go to war for my team attitude.
I'm a baseball fan first, Yankee fan second, and with all due respect, could not stand the Braves, I'm a Yankee fan for the love of God.

One Brave who I absolutly loved was Dale Murphy, from 1982-1986 had a five year run as great as anybody.
Hit 36 homers one year, few years actually, but one seaon he hit 36, 12 to right, 12 to center, 12 to left.
But I digress.

No, things probably would not be different, Cox was a baseball mind great, genius if you want to take it that far.
Took a Brave team from last place, not just any Braves team, those teams were brutal right before the came, and almost won it all the next season. Those Braves teams before Cox were like SD Padres now.
(don't forget, he was a real good GM too)

Did the same again with the Blue Jays, you take two stinking up the joint laughing stocks, turn them into winners overnight, you know something.

And Cox did, he knew tactics well, he also, like I said went to war for his guys, never threw any of his guys under the bus, never spoke poor of his guys in public, he was always consistent, and he knew how to pick a player up....
Know where he learned that? From a Brave who won a batting title.

Joe Torre.

No, anybody besides Cox doesn't do what he did there.