My 2 cents.

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  • kdmfox
    SBR MVP
    • 08-11-05
    • 1743

    #1
    My 2 cents.
    I’ve noticed that my score for the month of June has been changed to reflect a lower total. At issue is a game between Boston and Texas on 6/10. Two games were scheduled that day and I played the over in the 1st game. The game was held up 4-5 hours due to rain and subsequently only 1 game was played. Illusion posted a message that game 1 was rained out and therefore no action. Several days later Willie Bee posts a message that the 2nd game was postponed and that it was the 1st game that was played. I live in the Boston area and can’t verify what actually took place. I spent about 10 minutes looking for the information but couldn’t find any and it’s not worth going on a crusade to do so. The game that was played went under so if indeed it was the 1st game then it was a loss. Posting a link in this case would have been sufficient instead of an uncorroborated paste.

    This is the 2nd time that my score was lowered after initial rulings were reversed.

    On May 10th I made a selection and 7 or 8 minutes later I edited my post to include a 2nd selection rather than initiate a new post. The rules at the time stated that posts may not be edited and “may” result in disqualification. Reading that, it sounds like the selections may or may not be counted, certainly arbitrary language. One selection was a winner and one a loser with a net of zero. Both picks were voided. Several days later they were both changed to losers with a net of -2.28. I can certainly see voiding out a winner if a rule had been broken but counting it as a loser on a minor infraction is BS. The rule has since been changed to reflect that all selections in edited posts are counted as losses. Plain and simple. At the time it was an arbitrary decision by the moderator(s) which was done, but later changed.

    Unfortunately for me, the -2.28 that was assessed in the change was the difference between me finishing 1st in May and finishing 4th. Changing a winner to a loser for a minor infraction in view of the rule at the time was unfair.

    There appears to be a conflict of interest here, especially in view of the fact that original rulings were subsequently changed. I have no problem with changes if they reflect fair play. If in the case of the over I played, if indeed it was the 1st game, then it should be counted as a loss. Two things come to mind here, Willie Bee pasted several lines from ESPN saying it was the 1st game that was played and what I also think were his edited quotation marks around “day” game to further make his point. Second of all my score was changed without any notification or explanation from the moderators. If Illusion posted that my selection was no action, then a message to the change would also have sufficed. There was nothing but a deduction in my score which I figured out myself.

    Moderators that manage a contest, make rules, interpret rules; change rules, make arbitrary decisions and reverse original decisions should NOT be making selections in the same contest. I have no problem with SBR employees participating in contests that they aren’t grading or making decisions in, but I just made a case for a conflict of interest. I think it common sense that those administering a contest should not be participating in it.
  • Willie Bee
    SBR Posting Legend
    • 02-14-06
    • 15726

    #2
    Link to the alleged "uncorroborated" story I took that info from, along with the full story that you'll see was not edited or enhanced by me in any way to drive home a point.

    The wording in the rules was changed so that it wouldn't be so arbitrary. I explained that to you in a PM before. We never anticipated so many edited posts or past posts, something else I explained to you in a PM.

    If you never received a note from myself or Illusion today about the most recent change, then I apologize for the miscommunication between Illusion and myself.

    The decision was made early on to allow mods to play in the contest but they would NOT be eligible for any prizes. If a majority of those playing in the contest would prefer that mods not join in, let me know and we'll bow out without question.


    Expert recap and game analysis of the Texas Rangers vs. Boston Red Sox MLB game from June 10, 2006 on ESPN.

    BOSTON (AP) -- It took nearly eight years, but Texas reliever Bryan Corey finally got his first win in the major leagues.

    Ian Kinsler had a tiebreaking two-run single in the seventh inning and Corey outshined a pair of rookie left-handers for his first major league win, lifting the Rangers to a 7-4 victory over the Boston Red Sox on Saturday.

    The teams were supposed to play a day-night doubleheader, but rain delayed the start of the first game 4 hours, 47 minutes, forcing the postponement of the nightcap, with the "day" game ending just over eight hours past its original scheduled 1:25 p.m. starting time.

    The postponed game will be made up as part of a split doubleheader Sunday, beginning at noon. The regularly scheduled 2:05 game was moved to 5 p.m.

    Corey (1-0), who began his major-league career with Arizona in 1998 -- and made just four total appearances with the Diamondbacks and Los Angeles -- struck out all four batters he faced for the win.

    The 32-year-old Corey, whose last big league appearance came with the Dodgers in 2002, previously had one strikeout in just five innings.

    "Honestly, I'm trying to learn from all my past experiences," said Corey, who also spent part of the 2004 season in Japan. "It's really good with all I've been through. To have it happen here, with all the baseball history."

    Corey got his first big-league win on a day that was supposed to belong to Boston left-hander Jon Lester.

    Corey had the game ball in his pocket as he spoke to the media.

    "I'm very happy for Bryan," Rangers manager Buck Showalter said. "It's been a long road for him."

    Highly touted Lester made his first start for the Red Sox and opened by striking out his first batter, Gary Matthews Jr. on four pitches before the Rangers scored a pair of runs. Mark DeRosa hit a two-run double down the left-field line following a double by Michael Young and walk by Blalock.

    The 22-year-old Lester pitched 4 1/3 innings, giving up three runs and five hits with four walks. He struck out four before leaving to a standing ovation by the crowd.

    "I thought he showed some of the things that we heard about him," Boston manager Terry Francona said. "Today was not an easy day to make a debut. He sat around and I'm sure he had a lot of anxiety."

    Francona said Lester would make another start.

    "I threw a lot of pitches in four innings. That's the biggest thing right now, to try to keep my pitching efficiency to a minimum," said Lester, who threw 102 pitches. "I was just happy to get the first one under my belt and get it done with."

    Hank Blalock went 3-for-4 with a two-run homer and three runs scored for the Rangers.

    Manny Ramirez hit his 450th career homer for the Red Sox, becoming the 31st major-league player to reach that plateau.

    Francisco Cordero allowed one run in one inning and Akinori Otsuka pitched the ninth for his 11 save in 12 chances.

    Blalock, and Mark DeRosa singled before Kevin Mench walked to load the bases with one out in the seventh against Boston reliever Julian Tavarez (1-1). Kinsler snapped a 4-for-25 drought with a grounder that rolled inside the third-base bag, making it 5-3.

    Ramirez homered in the eighth off Cordero to bring the Red Sox within 5-4, but Blalock hit a two-run shot off reliever Keith Foulke in the ninth to make it 7-4.

    Rangers rookie left-hander John Rheinecker, making his fourth major-league start, lasted 5 2/3 innings, allowing three runs and nine hits. He walked three and struck out one. He pitched eight or more innings in his previous two starts.

    The Red Sox cut it to 2-1 in the first when Mark Loretta singled, moved to third on David Ortiz's single and scored on Ramirez's ground out. Boston tied it 2-2 in the third when Coco Crisp scored on Ortiz's double play grounder.

    Texas regained the lead on Matthews Jr.'s sacrifice fly in the fourth, but Boston tied it on Alex Gonzalez's RBI single in the bottom half.

    Game notes
    Ortiz came into the game just 4-for-24 in June. ... Jerry Hairston Jr., making his first start for Texas since being acquired from the Chicago Cubs on May 31, made diving catches of Mike Lowell's liners in the second and eighth. ...The Red Sox PA announcer informed the fans that it was "Free Dog Night" in the second inning. Management offered free hot dogs -- one per person per trip -- while supplies lasted. ... Lester was 3-4 with a 2.70 ERA in 11 starts with Triple-A Pawtucket.
    Comment
    • kdmfox
      SBR MVP
      • 08-11-05
      • 1743

      #3
      I don't have a problem with what game they called it Saturday and the change if necessary ... I had no clue what it was and wasn't satisfied with what or how you posted ... Seemed a bit strange to me 3 days after the fact you are doing detective work ... Illusion said it was no action ... I also don't have a problem with calling winners losers if the rules state that which they did not ... It was an arbitrary decision to have it tossed out and then several days later turned into a loss ... I have a problem with that ... We can agree to disagree so enough said.
      Comment
      • Illusion
        Restricted User
        • 08-09-05
        • 25166

        #4
        I was unclear at the time about the game in question so I initialy ruled the game no action. I later learned that the game in question was game one of the doubleheader so I went back and adjusted the score. I apoligize for the misunderstanding. If this happens in the future I will leave such games ungraded until a ruling is met.
        Comment
        • Willie Bee
          SBR Posting Legend
          • 02-14-06
          • 15726

          #5
          Originally posted by kdmfox
          Seemed a bit strange to me 3 days after the fact you are doing detective work.
          The game in question was played/rained out on Saturday. I don't work Sundays. Monday morning I caught up my file, or set about to sleuthing as you noted. We don't have the staff available to make this contest a 24-hour concern. We don't have the people or software available to keep players from making picks past the start time of a game or to keep them from editing their previous picks. Considering it took you three weeks to contact me about your mid-May grievance, I wouldn't think that something we do two days later would be such a big deal to you.
          Comment
          • kdmfox
            SBR MVP
            • 08-11-05
            • 1743

            #6
            Life is full of stuff we don't like ... I'm entitled to voice my opinion when I think I got screwed and screwed I did on May 10th ... It bothered me at the time but it wasn't until May was over that the impact of calling a winner a loser was noticed ... Once again it was the manner in which it was done ... A ruling by one person and changed by another several days later with a rule that could have meant just about anything ... I don't want to win any contest because someone's winner was changed to a loss because of of an infraction that had no bearing on why he had that winner ... Voiding a winner for a rule infraction is fair, calling it a loss isn't ... That with the appearance that those calling the shots and changing things are also contestants in the same contest ... You have now explained although you are allowed to participate, you can't accept a prize ... As there is a bit of strategy and gamesmanship in a contest that lasts a month, I can think of a few scenarios where your positioning in the contest would affect someone's play at the end.

            I was declared the winner of the last man standing NBA contest the last week it ran, a contest I had already won several times ... I was moved up from 2nd because the winner lived in a country where he couldn't accept the 100 prize ... Onlooker sent me a message several weeks later asking if I had received the $ ... I had not and never did ... I was beaten fairly and never made an issue of it.

            The contests are fun and you guys do a good job with them, so enough said ... There is obviously a lot of satisfaction winning them.
            Comment
            • Willie Bee
              SBR Posting Legend
              • 02-14-06
              • 15726

              #7
              Originally posted by kdmfox
              Onlooker sent me a message several weeks later asking if I had received the $ ... I had not and never did ...
              If you would like, I'll look into this and get your due reward sent your way.

              I shall also remove myself from further competition in this bases contest so as not to taint or influence that process in the least.
              Comment
              • kdmfox
                SBR MVP
                • 08-11-05
                • 1743

                #8
                There is no need to look into that prize from Bowman's ... I don't use Bowman's and only kept a balance there for the contest.

                On the subject of rules:

                I played the over on the Boston/Texas game Saturday ... there was a lot of rain around on the weekend ... If that game was official but didn't go the distance, how would that have been graded?

                In the absence of a rule I'd expect that if the total was over it should have been a win and if it was under it should have been graded as no action ... I know that sounds like having it both ways but at that point a 9 inning game wouldn't have changed anything for the over. I think most books grade them no action if the game doesn't go the distance but is official which is somewhat unfair if you played the over and the total was already over at the time the game was called.
                Comment
                • Willie Bee
                  SBR Posting Legend
                  • 02-14-06
                  • 15726

                  #9
                  Not only does is sound like having it both ways, it is having it both ways. I don't know of any book that would pay off the winners in that scenario and refund money to the losers.

                  At just about every book where I've read their bases rules, total runs (over/under) are action only if the game goes at least 8½ innings (with home team ahead, 9 full innings otherwise).
                  Comment
                  • kdmfox
                    SBR MVP
                    • 08-11-05
                    • 1743

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Willie Bee
                    Not only does is sound like having it both ways, it is having it both ways. I don't know of any book that would pay off the winners in that scenario and refund money to the losers.

                    At just about every book where I've read their bases rules, total runs (over/under) are action only if the game goes at least 8½ innings (with home team ahead, 9 full innings otherwise).
                    So the rule for this particular contest is the same as just about every book or is it something else?
                    Comment
                    • Willie Bee
                      SBR Posting Legend
                      • 02-14-06
                      • 15726

                      #11
                      If a game doesn't go at least 8½ innings (with the home team ahead, 9 otherwise) the over-under will be graded as no action.
                      Comment
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