Playing favs only on ML and dogs on ML/spread blend....

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  • curious
    Restricted User
    • 07-20-07
    • 9093

    #1
    Playing favs only on ML and dogs on ML/spread blend....
    I have stopped playing favs on the spread and play them only on the ML, if the value is there. By "if the value is there" I mean that my calculation of what the ML odds should be is <= what the sportsbooks are actually setting the ML at. If the sports books are setting the ML at > what my calculation shows that it should be then I take the dog on the ML and I hedge the dog ML with the dog plus the points.

    To determine the value I use the pythag theorem and the log5 formula with the pythag adjusted for strength of schedule.

    This has been absolutely on fire, and so far I have not stepped on any land mines (large favs on the moneyline that lose straight up).

    Any criticisms of playing medium to large favs on the moneyline using the above approach?

    Am I risking walking into a minefield?
  • Ganchrow
    SBR Hall of Famer
    • 08-28-05
    • 5011

    #2
    Check out this spreadsheet I put together a little while back in order to perform just these sorts of ML/Spread optimizations.

    Shaded cells are the ones intended to be modified by the user.

    Bugs may well exist. If anyone finds any please do post them here.
    Attached Files
    Comment
    • therber2
      Restricted User
      • 12-22-08
      • 3715

      #3
      Hello there. Could you elaborate or give an example of how you "determine the value"?

      Originally posted by curious
      I have stopped playing favs on the spread and play them only on the ML, if the value is there. By "if the value is there" I mean that my calculation of what the ML odds should be is <= what the sportsbooks are actually setting the ML at. If the sports books are setting the ML at > what my calculation shows that it should be then I take the dog on the ML and I hedge the dog ML with the dog plus the points.

      To determine the value I use the pythag theorem and the log5 formula with the pythag adjusted for strength of schedule.

      This has been absolutely on fire, and so far I have not stepped on any land mines (large favs on the moneyline that lose straight up).

      Any criticisms of playing medium to large favs on the moneyline using the above approach?

      Am I risking walking into a minefield?
      Comment
      • curious
        Restricted User
        • 07-20-07
        • 9093

        #4
        Originally posted by therber2
        Hello there. Could you elaborate or give an example of how you "determine the value"?
        Use the pythagorean theorem adjusted for strength of schedule, then use the log 5 formula to determine probability of winning a given matchup then convert the probability into moneyline odds.
        Comment
        • therber2
          Restricted User
          • 12-22-08
          • 3715

          #5
          Sorry I got that before. Could you explain how to do this? That is what I meant.
          Comment
          • curious
            Restricted User
            • 07-20-07
            • 9093

            #6
            Originally posted by therber2
            Sorry I got that before. Could you explain how to do this? That is what I meant.
            So, do you like basketball and math? At least one of the two? I've got a fun exercise for you if you do. Rocky Top Talk reader kidbourbon sent the following question, which I am happy to answer: H...


            I just use the pythag and log5, I don't do the predict the score of the games part. I only play the favs on the ml so I don't care what the spread is.
            Comment
            • therber2
              Restricted User
              • 12-22-08
              • 3715

              #7
              Looks useful. I will take a look. You are a gentleman kind sir.
              Comment
              • therber2
                Restricted User
                • 12-22-08
                • 3715

                #8
                curious....I am sorry, about Gonzaga. Ouch. But happened to doing the dogs with this system. Not to rub salt in the wound, but I did Illinois tonight using this idea, and it payed of really well. Its not a bad strat at all. Thanks brutha.
                Comment
                • curious
                  Restricted User
                  • 07-20-07
                  • 9093

                  #9
                  Originally posted by therber2
                  curious....I am sorry, about Gonzaga. Ouch. But happened to doing the dogs with this system. Not to rub salt in the wound, but I did Illinois tonight using this idea, and it payed of really well. Its not a bad strat at all. Thanks brutha.
                  My YTD is 253-211 +3600 Units. And that includes a 15,000 unit loss. LOL I'm not worried.

                  Merry Christmas!!
                  Comment
                  • therber2
                    Restricted User
                    • 12-22-08
                    • 3715

                    #10
                    Hey Curious,

                    Do you know of any of sites that do the same thing KENPOM does...except for other sports? I'm not good with this math stuff.

                    Thanks and glad to hear you will be alright!

                    Merry XMAS to you too!
                    Comment
                    • curious
                      Restricted User
                      • 07-20-07
                      • 9093

                      #11
                      Originally posted by therber2
                      Hey Curious,

                      Do you know of any of sites that do the same thing KENPOM does...except for other sports? I'm not good with this math stuff.

                      Thanks and glad to hear you will be alright!

                      Merry XMAS to you too!
                      There are several baseball sites. I haven't found any others. You'll have to do a google search to find the baseball sites.

                      For NFL and NCAAF I use plays per TD and big play capability. Big play capability is a stat that shows the premium that the passing game gives the offense. I didn't do any football this year because I have to keep the stats myself to calculate plays per TD and big play capability, no one publishes it. I just started fooling with sports again in November so I didn't have the stats for football.

                      Last year I totally tore up NCAAF. Playing mostly big dogs on the moneyline with a hedge on the spread. Not blind, using my models.

                      I do really well at baseball.
                      Comment
                      • therber2
                        Restricted User
                        • 12-22-08
                        • 3715

                        #12
                        Curious,

                        I like how KENPOM's page for NCAA-B is so clear. Is there anyone the does the same system (publishes it) for NBA or any other sport.

                        I specifically enjoy the fact that you can check probabilities sooooo quickly

                        KENPOM is the only one I can find that does this kind of thing, and it seems to be spot on correct. I love his system. I dread NCAA-b season ending.

                        Please let me know if you know of anything or does KENPOM do other sports???
                        Comment
                        • smokin1
                          SBR Rookie
                          • 11-06-08
                          • 38

                          #13
                          Here's an interesting question. How about playing both Fav ML and dog spread. Most of the time it will be a loser, but only time its significant is when you lose the ML Fav bet. However, sometimes when the fav wins but doesnt cover the spread you win both.

                          Anyone have stats on how many times the dog won su on various spread values. I bet at spreads greater then 7 it may be possible to make money? Obviously excluding spreads > -1500 ML on Fav would prolly be advisable as the ML has become overinflated and not representative of the true odds of the fav winning imo.

                          Just a theaory I had with no long term analysis
                          Comment
                          • curious
                            Restricted User
                            • 07-20-07
                            • 9093

                            #14
                            Originally posted by smokin1
                            Here's an interesting question. How about playing both Fav ML and dog spread. Most of the time it will be a loser, but only time its significant is when you lose the ML Fav bet. However, sometimes when the fav wins but doesnt cover the spread you win both.

                            Anyone have stats on how many times the dog won su on various spread values. I bet at spreads greater then 7 it may be possible to make money? Obviously excluding spreads > -1500 ML on Fav would prolly be advisable as the ML has become overinflated and not representative of the true odds of the fav winning imo.

                            Just a theaory I had with no long term analysis
                            Well my big favs are 48-3. Small favs are roughly 40-60. ML medium sized to big dogs are 50-50 which means ML dogs are a huge winner. Small ML dogs are awful.

                            Medium and big dogs on the spreads are way up.

                            I don't think fav ML and dog on the spread is a good play.
                            Comment
                            • FreeFall
                              SBR MVP
                              • 02-20-08
                              • 3365

                              #15
                              curious I have calculated the phytag for todays game. With P(W) for Connecticut being .9832. How do I turn that into a money line to see if there is an edge compared to what the books offer?

                              Thank you.


                              EDIT:

                              Where can I find the average points per 100 possessions nationwide?

                              Code:
                              For each team we'll need to compare their offense and defense to the average, just as we did with tempo. The average points per 100 possessions nationwide is 101.5. That means that Tennessee's offense is 117.6% of the average. Its defense is 86.9% of the average. For Kentucky, these numbers are 104.9% and 92.7%. Remember, we already added in the homecourt advantage, so these really represent how we expect UT to do at home and how we expect UK to do on the road.
                              
                              Now getting each team's expected output is easy. We simply multiply their offense by the opposing defense and then by the average output:
                              
                              Tennessee expected output = 117.6% * 92.7% * 101.5 = 110.6
                              Kentucky expected output = 104.9% * 86.9% * 101.5 = 92.6
                              I'm having trouble obtaining these numbers of 100 possessions for todays game using that website. Any help would be appreciated.
                              Last edited by FreeFall; 12-26-08, 04:39 PM.
                              Comment
                              • curious
                                Restricted User
                                • 07-20-07
                                • 9093

                                #16
                                Originally posted by FreeFall
                                curious I have calculated the phytag for todays game. With P(W) for Connecticut being .9832. How do I turn that into a money line to see if there is an edge compared to what the books offer?

                                Thank you.


                                EDIT:

                                Where can I find the average points per 100 possessions nationwide?

                                Code:
                                For each team we'll need to compare their offense and defense to the average, just as we did with tempo. The average points per 100 possessions nationwide is 101.5. That means that Tennessee's offense is 117.6% of the average. Its defense is 86.9% of the average. For Kentucky, these numbers are 104.9% and 92.7%. Remember, we already added in the homecourt advantage, so these really represent how we expect UT to do at home and how we expect UK to do on the road.
                                
                                Now getting each team's expected output is easy. We simply multiply their offense by the opposing defense and then by the average output:
                                
                                Tennessee expected output = 117.6% * 92.7% * 101.5 = 110.6
                                Kentucky expected output = 104.9% * 86.9% * 101.5 = 92.6
                                I'm having trouble obtaining these numbers of 100 possessions for todays game using that website. Any help would be appreciated.
                                To calculate probability of winning you need Fairfield's pythag then you use the log5 formula to get a probability, then you convert that to a line. If the line that the books are offering is better than that line you have a play, if the line the books offer is worse than that line then Fairfield is the play. The bigger the difference between the two lines the stronger the Fairfield play is. If the difference is really large then you take Fairfield on both the spread and the ML.

                                www.kenpom.com gives all the stats you need including average points per game nationwide.
                                Comment
                                • curious
                                  Restricted User
                                  • 07-20-07
                                  • 9093

                                  #17
                                  Here are the numbers I got for the UConn game

                                  Pythag
                                  Fairfield .57
                                  UConn .98

                                  Probability of winning
                                  F 2.63%
                                  UConn 97.37%

                                  Value line -3700

                                  Actual line -6000

                                  Play is Fairfield + the points and 1/2 that on Fairfield ML
                                  Comment
                                  • FreeFall
                                    SBR MVP
                                    • 02-20-08
                                    • 3365

                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by curious
                                    Pythag
                                    Fairfield .57
                                    UConn .98

                                    Probability of winning
                                    F 2.63%
                                    UConn 97.37%

                                    Value line -3700

                                    Actual line -6000

                                    Play is Fairfield + the points and 1/2 that on Fairfield ML
                                    What numbers did you use for fairfield. I got the same numbers for Conn, but for Fair Field I got .4865.

                                    I used

                                    (102.7412)^11.5
                                    _________________

                                    (102.7412^11.5 + 103.2252^11.5)

                                    that gave me .4865


                                    also how do I turn the probability for Conn to win of .9832 into a money line?
                                    Comment
                                    • curious
                                      Restricted User
                                      • 07-20-07
                                      • 9093

                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by FreeFall
                                      What numbers did you use for fairfield. I got the same numbers for Conn, but for Fair Field I got .4865.

                                      I used

                                      (102.7412)^11.5
                                      _________________

                                      (102.7412^11.5 + 103.2252^11.5)

                                      that gave me .4865


                                      also how do I turn the probability for Conn to win of .9832 into a money line?
                                      You are not adjusting for strength of schedule. I adjust for strength of schedule. That is why our numbers are different.

                                      Here is the excel spreadsheet formula to turn the probability into a value line:
                                      ROUNDUP((A1/(1-A1))*-100,0)

                                      Assuming A1 contains a probability which is >= 50%.
                                      Comment
                                      • smokin1
                                        SBR Rookie
                                        • 11-06-08
                                        • 38

                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by curious
                                        My YTD is 253-211 +3600 Units. And that includes a 15,000 unit loss. LOL I'm not worried.

                                        Merry Christmas!!

                                        I did a little research and my above theory of playing bothfav ml and dog spread turns out to break even for this season.

                                        The reason for my alternative thought pattern remains tho. I was looking for a way to hedge your bets or limit your results to particular spreads because a 15000 unit loss and only positive a +3600 return thus far are kind of scary numbers to me. To be able to lose almost 5x your gain for the season on 1 play

                                        Why kind of play was this? What is your standard unit size for a game. I mean it wasnt a -15000 odd bad beat I assume. Was it a -1500 bet @ 10 units? Have you looked into ways to limit your risk and maintain your profits?
                                        Comment
                                        • curious
                                          Restricted User
                                          • 07-20-07
                                          • 9093

                                          #21
                                          Originally posted by smokin1
                                          I did a little research and my above theory of playing bothfav ml and dog spread turns out to break even for this season.

                                          The reason for my alternative thought pattern remains tho. I was looking for a way to hedge your bets or limit your results to particular spreads because a 15000 unit loss and only positive a +3600 return thus far are kind of scary numbers to me. To be able to lose almost 5x your gain for the season on 1 play

                                          Why kind of play was this? What is your standard unit size for a game. I mean it wasnt a -15000 odd bad beat I assume. Was it a -1500 bet @ 10 units? Have you looked into ways to limit your risk and maintain your profits?
                                          the odds were -5000 on Gonzaga vs Portland St. I went against the prediction model because the value line was -3667 so the play was actually portland state. The play was -5000 ML 15000 units to win 300 units.

                                          Some colleagues have said not to play lines > -1000.

                                          There is no way to hedge this big ML fav plays because the vig on the dog is so large. If the dog was the mirror of the fav then you could take the fav the moment the line opened and take the dog right before game time, but with so much vig that won't work.

                                          The only way to limit risk is to cut the size of the fav that youa re willing to play at some arbitrarily line like -1000. I'm not sure I agree with that.

                                          Even after losing 15000 units I was still up 3300 units for the month.
                                          Comment
                                          • smokin1
                                            SBR Rookie
                                            • 11-06-08
                                            • 38

                                            #22
                                            Originally posted by curious
                                            the odds were -5000 on Gonzaga vs Portland St. I went against the prediction model because the value line was -3667 so the play was actually portland state. The play was -5000 ML 15000 units to win 300 units.

                                            Some colleagues have said not to play lines > -1000.

                                            There is no way to hedge this big ML fav plays because the vig on the dog is so large. If the dog was the mirror of the fav then you could take the fav the moment the line opened and take the dog right before game time, but with so much vig that won't work.

                                            The only way to limit risk is to cut the size of the fav that youa re willing to play at some arbitrarily line like -1000. I'm not sure I agree with that.

                                            Even after losing 15000 units I was still up 3300 units for the month.

                                            If your system is sound, which Im not arguing at all (I like it alot actually), I completely agree that in the long run playing -5000 lines would produce positive results. My only fear is there are not enough games like that in the season to allow the laws of probability to even out.

                                            Im just curious, can you look at your plays for the season and just eliminate anything you bet on a fav at odds over 1000 or 1500 or whatever. Pick a few different cutoff points and see if you retain your positive gain. When I looked at games this season using the theory I mentioned, I only broke even when eliminating games with spreads under 6 and over 13. When I included those plays I started seeing negative results for the season.

                                            While the theory is completely different, those cutoffs on spread values do make a little sense, especially the upper limit of 13 since it takes so many positive results to balance 1 bad result.

                                            Good luck on your plays tonight tho, I had no interest in that game till this thread
                                            Last edited by smokin1; 12-26-08, 07:24 PM. Reason: clarification
                                            Comment
                                            • curious
                                              Restricted User
                                              • 07-20-07
                                              • 9093

                                              #23
                                              Originally posted by smokin1
                                              If your system is sound, which Im not arguing at all (I like it alot actually), I completely agree that in the long run playing -5000 lines would produce positive results. My only fear is there are not enough games like that in the season to allow the laws of probability to even out.

                                              Im just curious, can you look at your plays for the season and just eliminate anything you bet on a fav at odds over 1000 or 1500 or whatever. Pick a few and see if you retain your positive gain. When I looked at games this season using the theory I mentioned, I only broke even when eliminating games with spreads under 6 and over 13. When I included those plays I started seeing negative results for the season.

                                              While the theory is completely different, those cutoffs on spread values do make a little sense, especially the upper limit of 13 since it takes so many positive results to balance 1 bad result.

                                              Good luck on your plays tonight tho, I had no interest in that game till this thread
                                              Here are all my fav ML plays (well I might be missing one or two). I had a whole bunch of big dog ML wins which is why I am still up after losing that 15000 play. The dogs are not in this list.

                                              Loyola Chicago -150 win
                                              USF -155 loss
                                              Seton Hall -155 win
                                              Oklahoma St -160 win
                                              Riverside -160 win
                                              Samford -160 win
                                              Utah St -170 win
                                              Morehead St -180 loss
                                              Purdue -200 win
                                              St Mary's -200 win
                                              Cinci -200 win
                                              Riverside -200 win
                                              Gonzaga -200 win
                                              South Alabama -215 win
                                              Boston College -220 win
                                              Utah St -225 win
                                              Templ -235 loss
                                              Tenn -240 win
                                              Illinois Chicago -290 win
                                              Houston -300 win
                                              Irvine -315 win
                                              Creighton -325 win
                                              Cleveland St -360 win
                                              Pittsburgh -360 win
                                              Portland St -375 win
                                              Kansas -440 win
                                              Wake Forest -475 win
                                              MTSU -500 win
                                              California -500 win
                                              George Washington -550 win
                                              Wichita St -525 win
                                              Washington St -650 win
                                              Georgia -800 win
                                              Oklahoma -850 win
                                              Tulsa -1000 win
                                              SD State -1000 win
                                              Northridge -1000 win
                                              Florida -1100 win
                                              Vanderbilt -1100 win
                                              ST Johns -1200 win
                                              Missouri St -1400 win
                                              Charlotte -1400 win
                                              GA Tech -1500 win
                                              MTSU -1600 win
                                              VA Tech -1800 win
                                              Arkansas St -2200 win
                                              Wyoming -2400 win
                                              Washington -2500 win
                                              Ohio St -2500 win
                                              Kentucky -2500 win
                                              Oklahoma -3000 win
                                              Northwestern -3000 win
                                              Gonzaga -5000 loss
                                              Georgetown -15000 win
                                              Comment
                                              • smokin1
                                                SBR Rookie
                                                • 11-06-08
                                                • 38

                                                #24
                                                Originally posted by curious
                                                Arkansas St -2200 win
                                                Wyoming -2400 win
                                                Washington -2500 win
                                                Ohio St -2500 win
                                                Kentucky -2500 win
                                                Oklahoma -3000 win
                                                Northwestern -3000 win
                                                Gonzaga -5000 loss
                                                Georgetown -15000 win

                                                My guess is if you eliminated all of these plays from your results your units for the season would be > +3300

                                                Just something to consider. Im planning on playing with your strat this weekend, thank you for sharing and good luck!
                                                Comment
                                                • therber2
                                                  Restricted User
                                                  • 12-22-08
                                                  • 3715

                                                  #25
                                                  Curious, when you pick your favs do you weigh in regional finals playoffs. Like do you weigh in one team playing harder because they need it to move on and the other taking it easy.

                                                  For example, NBA: Boston and Cleveland games ....wow what bums!

                                                  Your system is great, but this is the one thing that I think might throw it off coming up soon.
                                                  Comment
                                                  • curious
                                                    Restricted User
                                                    • 07-20-07
                                                    • 9093

                                                    #26
                                                    Originally posted by therber2
                                                    Curious, when you pick your favs do you weigh in regional finals playoffs. Like do you weigh in one team playing harder because they need it to move on and the other taking it easy.

                                                    For example, NBA: Boston and Cleveland games ....wow what bums!

                                                    Your system is great, but this is the one thing that I think might throw it off coming up soon.
                                                    I weigh strength of schedule the most, then pythag, then HCA, then regional rivalry.

                                                    I only look at HCA and regional rivalry if the value line and the line offered by the books are close. If the value line shows a clear advantage then I don't look at HCA or rivalry.

                                                    I think this "Team A will play harder..." stuff is a myth.

                                                    When I say regional rivalry I am talking about teams like W Kentucky at home against any of their nearby rivals where the fans hate the other team.
                                                    Comment
                                                    • andywend
                                                      SBR MVP
                                                      • 05-20-07
                                                      • 4805

                                                      #27
                                                      Did you actually lay 150-1 odds on Georgetown as indicated on your list?

                                                      If you are doing your betting through a regular sportsbook as opposed to a betting exchange, I can almost guarantee you will lose money long term betting huge favorites to win on the moneyline.

                                                      The reason being the "vig" charged on those type games is huge.
                                                      Comment
                                                      • curious
                                                        Restricted User
                                                        • 07-20-07
                                                        • 9093

                                                        #28
                                                        Originally posted by andywend
                                                        Did you actually lay 150-1 odds on Georgetown as indicated on your list?
                                                        Yes


                                                        If you are doing your betting through a regular sportsbook as opposed to a betting exchange, I can almost guarantee you will lose money long term betting huge favorites to win on the moneyline.


                                                        The reason being the "vig" charged on those type games is huge.
                                                        Perhaps.

                                                        I calculate a value line and if the line offered by the books is better than that I take it. My only loss has happened when I let my personal bias overrule what the prediction model said.
                                                        Comment
                                                        • willpies
                                                          SBR High Roller
                                                          • 12-18-08
                                                          • 128

                                                          #29
                                                          Hey Curious obviously this a great formula and props to you. Could you please upload a spread sheet where you just punch in values and it does the rest for you? If its easy i mean of course. Either way good work
                                                          Comment
                                                          • curious
                                                            Restricted User
                                                            • 07-20-07
                                                            • 9093

                                                            #30
                                                            Originally posted by willpies
                                                            Hey Curious obviously this a great formula and props to you. Could you please upload a spread sheet where you just punch in values and it does the rest for you? If its easy i mean of course. Either way good work
                                                            Sure, I will just give away the system that I spent hundreds of hours creating. Sure I will....Okay hold your breath until I upload it...
                                                            Comment
                                                            • innovator
                                                              SBR High Roller
                                                              • 11-28-08
                                                              • 238

                                                              #31
                                                              curious will you be my Obi Wan Kenobi?
                                                              Comment
                                                              • therber2
                                                                Restricted User
                                                                • 12-22-08
                                                                • 3715

                                                                #32
                                                                Originally posted by curious
                                                                Sure, I will just give away the system that I spent hundreds of hours creating. Sure I will....Okay hold your breath until I upload it...
                                                                Why don't you sell it?

                                                                Just make it look nice. Don't put that picture of the Wookie on there.

                                                                Well come on now, Curious. This is a friendly....ehm sharing forum

                                                                On a serious note: Curious, or (calling) Ganchrow. I have done some data mining public trends (spent hours looking for patterns and compiling data into an excel file). I can't make anything out of it. What I have been noticing though (on bettracker) is that usually when the public thinks they're right (on a bookie's spread play) they are wrong.

                                                                It makes sense. Explains why the bookies are so hard to beat and we need geniuses like you guys to figure out these overly complicated ways to win some fair cash.

                                                                Would you like to take a look at my file? Maybe you'll notice something that I didn't.
                                                                Last edited by therber2; 12-30-08, 04:25 AM. Reason: possible misunderstanding correction
                                                                Comment
                                                                • therber2
                                                                  Restricted User
                                                                  • 12-22-08
                                                                  • 3715

                                                                  #33
                                                                  Here is what I am thinking plain and simple.

                                                                  High market volume and weight on a spread play + frequent line move in a favorable direction as more bets comes in = bet that 10% spread play that no one wants to lay their hands on (or if you like the popular bet tease it with another low stakes).

                                                                  I wish I had like maybe $50,000 to test my whims out. It would be uhm.....fun. Yeah.

                                                                  I think I'll watch this. I just wish bettracker and bookies archived things. POMROY too. Geead damn I hate doing all nighters to data mine a whim. In the end it is paying me $-5/hr. Ugh!
                                                                  Comment
                                                                  • pico
                                                                    BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                                                                    • 04-05-07
                                                                    • 27321

                                                                    #34
                                                                    some links i found

                                                                    So, do you like basketball and math? At least one of the two? I've got a fun exercise for you if you do. Rocky Top Talk reader kidbourbon sent the following question, which I am happy to answer: H...






                                                                    Comment
                                                                    • Axis
                                                                      SBR MVP
                                                                      • 01-08-09
                                                                      • 1255

                                                                      #35
                                                                      I've read through this thread, and maybe I really did miss it, but what is the Log5 formula that is being discussed? Or if you don't want to explain it, is there a link where I can find it?

                                                                      I made my own spread sheet this morning for the Pythag, but I'm interested in trying Curious' method, but I'm still missing that Log5 Formula.

                                                                      Thank you to anyone who can help.
                                                                      Comment
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