The Truth About Parlays

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  • TheCalculator
    SBR MVP
    • 10-10-11
    • 1683

    #1
    The Truth About Parlays
    Parlays -- there's really 2 schools of thought about them. And I'd like to discuss some middle ground views.

    School #1. The handicap newbie's CRACK. It's the equivalent of creating your very own LOTTERY tickets with your favorite fighters and underdogs... and props.

    Bet small AND WIN BIG! That's the "hook" of parlays.

    Downside? Very, very low chance of hitting it and winning. Usually erodes bankroll over time.

    School #2. Die hard mathematically and statistically driven handicappers who don't think they've very smart.

    And there's A LOT OF TRUTH to this as well. On the bottom of this point you'll find some highly suggested reading about parlays (including some from Van1ty).

    Upside: Very smart lower risk way to manage bets and money.

    Downside? Read the situations in School #3.

    School #3: Using them in the right situations. (Van1ty's articles mention some of these situations briefly but I think it's worth discussing here).

    Situation A: Real time partial parlays

    Recently -- I decided I wanted to do partial parlays in REAL TIME.

    What this means is -- I would win a bet -- and then take a portion of the winnings (not all) and roll them into my next bet and so on.

    I figured this was smarter for a couple of reasons.

    First -- I wasn't putting 100% of my winnings into my next bet. This means I was saving winnings as I was progressing -- but at the same time I was increasing my bets as the fights went on. And I would use the kelly criterion to determine how much to reinvest into the next fight.

    Here's an example:

    Fight 1: Bet $1000 and win $500 (total $1500) -- kelly criterion says invest 20% into my next fight (which is $300) And save $1200.

    Fight 2: Already bet $700 -- NOW add $300 (total $1000). Win $1300. Adjusted roll: $2500. Run the kelly formula and it says to invest 10% into my next fight (which is $250) and now I have $2250 in my pocket.

    And so on...

    Well -- here's the REALITY of what happened.

    Most of the books didn't settle the bets fast enough to be able to do this.

    The ONLY book that settle fights within seconds was 5dimes.

    The Greek & Bodog was 2nd place. (5 to 15 minutes)

    Bookmaker was next.

    Pinnacle took 20 minutes +

    BetFair was very slow (45 minutes +).

    PaddyPower took 8 hours (must of been something wrong).

    So I couldn't roll the bets into each other like most mathematicians would tell you to do.
    It just wasn't possible.

    Situation B: to bet parlays: LOCK IN odds.

    Last week -- juicy odds came out on a fight that's a few weeks away. I locked in a few simple parlays with locks . The odds went up 80 notches since then (and they'll probably move up even more before fight time).

    Note: these aren't crazy parlays with a bunch of dogs that I hope are going to win. lol They were mainly 2 men parlays that I wanted to lock in the odds and made smaller plays (adjusted to kelly levels).

    Situation C: Can't place bets in real time.

    Sometimes I go watch the fights with my buddies at a sports bar. I don't bring my laptop with me. lol IN those situations -- obviously I can't be doing real time parlays so I have to set up my plan in advance.

    In closing -- I think parlays have their place (personally 5% to 10% of my wagers). I think being strategic about them and keeping the amounts to relatively small amounts (using kelly to calculate how much) is the solution.

    Here's some of the best reading I've found on parlays:

    Sports betting and handicapping forum: discuss picks, odds, and predictions for upcoming games and results on latest bets.

    Sports betting and handicapping forum: discuss picks, odds, and predictions for upcoming games and results on latest bets.

    Sports betting and handicapping forum: discuss picks, odds, and predictions for upcoming games and results on latest bets.

    Sports betting and handicapping forum: discuss picks, odds, and predictions for upcoming games and results on latest bets.


    Hope this helps.
    Last edited by shari91; 11-08-11, 10:01 AM. Reason: removed links
  • Vitooch
    SBR MVP
    • 09-26-11
    • 3470

    #2
    I will be reading all of this tomorrow. Thanks
    Comment
    • KushMoney
      SBR Wise Guy
      • 07-11-11
      • 658

      #3
      This is Van1ty from SD?


      Alright. Lets get this money.
      Comment
      • Vaughany
        SBR Aristocracy
        • 03-07-10
        • 45563

        #4
        Originally posted by TheCalculator
        P

        Situation B: to bet parlays: LOCK IN odds.

        Last week -- juicy odds came out on a fight that's a few weeks away. I locked in a few simple parlays with locks . The odds went up 80 notches since then (and they'll probably move up even more before fight time).

        Note: these aren't crazy parlays with a bunch of dogs that I hope are going to win. lol They were mainly 2 men parlays that I wanted to lock in the odds and made smaller plays (adjusted to kelly levels).

        This is one of the strategies that I kind of followed with these parlays:

        Parlay: 10 units on Jon Jones (-400), Cruz (-400), & Munoz (-187.5) to win 13.958 units;


        Parlay: 10 units on Koscheck (-333.33), Jon Jones (-400), Cruz (-400), & Munoz (-187.5) to win 21.146 units;


        Parlay (double): 10 units on Jon Jones (-400), & Mark Munoz (-187.5) to win 9.167 units;


        Parlay: 10 units on P.Thiago (-450), Palhares (-275), & Munoz (-187.5) to win 15.556 units.
        You can see that I got all of them at the best possible opening odds (especially Palhares -275, Koscheck at -333, Jones -400, and Munoz at -187.5). Also key for parlays for is to spread them out over numerous events as these where - gives more potential to hedge or arb out obviously as I could of done with Leben at the weekend, but instead decided to take the risk. Worked out at having 40 units on Munoz to win at +150 so based on my bankroll and Kelly Criterion it was worth the risk to not arb out with Leben.

        The issue with "real-time" parlays is as you mentioned the fact that most books aren't quick at settling bets. There probably wasn't an issue with paddypower - its quite common that it takes them a while to change a bet from "pending" to "win" or "loss", especially for props. Guess this is partly because majority events are happening at 3am over here
        Last edited by Vaughany; 11-07-11, 07:08 AM.
        Comment
        • THE_LOCKSMITH
          SBR Hall of Famer
          • 08-25-08
          • 7237

          #5
          man several of my UFC 138 parlays just got crushed by New England on Sunday
          Comment
          • v1y
            SBR MVP
            • 05-02-11
            • 1138

            #6
            all of the above!

            parlays have won me a lot more than they've lost me, but they usually are objectively bad bets.
            Comment
            • rocky mattioli
              SBR MVP
              • 08-26-10
              • 1263

              #7
              i think this is just the latest smug b.s. regarding "parlays" from the latest smug mma bettor who really doesn`t know a damned thing more than any other mma bettor but is intent on establishing a board rep through theory instead of results....

              you see this shit a few times a year and it never fails to grate....parlays are like every other wager...you carefully weigh your options,your bankroll,the risk and reward and you make the best decision you can make ........period...

              sometimes it works...sometimes it doesn`t....

              a futile exercise in self gratification....some will chime in with "this" or tag along because they think it makes them look superior and analytical....but in truth,it works for some discerning bettors...and doesn`t work well for more reckless,knee-jerk gamblers....

              it`s really not rocket science... and like everything else in life,varies from one individual to the next....
              Comment
              • Vaughany
                SBR Aristocracy
                • 03-07-10
                • 45563

                #8
                Comment
                • NunyaBidness
                  SBR Hall of Famer
                  • 07-26-09
                  • 9345

                  #9
                  I don't know what all of this is about.

                  Some books shade parlays, some don't. Don't bet parlays at books who shade them.

                  If your bets are +EV, including them in parlays multiplies your expectation. If your bets are -EV, it makes it worse.

                  If you are making lots of parlays, and believe each leg to be +EV, you should be round-robining every possible combination at kelly stake.
                  Comment
                  • TheCalculator
                    SBR MVP
                    • 10-10-11
                    • 1683

                    #10
                    Hey Rocky -- Thanks for all the positive vibes and warm-fuzzy hospitality.

                    Do you welcome all the newbies like this?

                    I'm certainly not here to pretend that I'm a legend. I'm just here to learn, share and make friends.

                    It's not that long ago that started wagering and I'm going through the learning curve and sharing what I'm learning.

                    Obviously my posts are useless to you and I would recommend you ignore them if they "grate" you so much. However -- I have a feeling you get a lot more joy out of spewing negativity and useless rhetoric. It doesn't phase me either way.

                    As far as posting "theory" vs. "results". I did reply to your UFC 138 post with this:

                    My biggest plays are:
                    Munoz,
                    Mills
                    Maguire
                    De Fries

                    They all won (I did lose on Pickett).






                    Originally posted by rocky mattioli
                    i think this is just the latest smug b.s. regarding "parlays" from the latest smug mma bettor who really doesn`t know a damned thing more than any other mma bettor but is intent on establishing a board rep through theory instead of results....

                    you see this shit a few times a year and it never fails to grate....parlays are like every other wager...you carefully weigh your options,your bankroll,the risk and reward and you make the best decision you can make ........period...

                    sometimes it works...sometimes it doesn`t....

                    a futile exercise in self gratification....some will chime in with "this" or tag along because they think it makes them look superior and analytical....but in truth,it works for some discerning bettors...and doesn`t work well for more reckless,knee-jerk gamblers....

                    it`s really not rocket science... and like everything else in life,varies from one individual to the next....
                    Comment
                    • v1y
                      SBR MVP
                      • 05-02-11
                      • 1138

                      #11
                      Originally posted by rocky mattioli
                      i think this is just the latest smug b.s. regarding "parlays" from the latest smug mma bettor who really doesn`t know a damned thing more than any other mma bettor but is intent on establishing a board rep through theory instead of results....

                      you see this shit a few times a year and it never fails to grate....parlays are like every other wager...you carefully weigh your options,your bankroll,the risk and reward and you make the best decision you can make ........period...

                      sometimes it works...sometimes it doesn`t....

                      a futile exercise in self gratification....some will chime in with "this" or tag along because they think it makes them look superior and analytical....but in truth,it works for some discerning bettors...and doesn`t work well for more reckless,knee-jerk gamblers....

                      it`s really not rocket science... and like everything else in life,varies from one individual to the next....
                      You're right that understanding how parlays work won't make someone a good gambler, but anyone who's been following my blog would be up a lot right now (as am I!).

                      I really just wrote that stuff as a resource, because I couldn't find anywhere else on the web where people do a good job of explaining it. It's not going to help you make money.

                      I agree that making money in mma is all about making the right plays and proper risk management.
                      Comment
                      • TheCalculator
                        SBR MVP
                        • 10-10-11
                        • 1683

                        #12
                        Van1ty -- I want to thank you for that resource. It really demystified the whole thing and definitely changed how I did a few things and I improved as a results.

                        Ganchrow's old articles are worth reading too.
                        Comment
                        • KushMoney
                          SBR Wise Guy
                          • 07-11-11
                          • 658

                          #13
                          Van1ty. That's you bro?

                          I've been following your picks for a while now. this KushMMA from SD

                          Also Oblivion from SD. His picks are good. I have been using his straight picks and multiplying his wagers by 10 and doing very very well. UFC 138 He went 3/4, but I traded out his play on Brad Pickett (Not a great idea betting against a guy on a 20 fight Winstreak, Barao) for my own play of Alves/Adedi UNDER 2.5 rounds. (Knew Alves was gonna hurt Abedi, and so did Oblivion for adding him on every Parlay he made that night which all hit, of course)


                          I Look forward to using this site more often. Lets get that money.


                          As to parlays. I stick to 2 pick plays only... if not I try to avoid them.
                          Comment
                          • bjpenn85
                            SBR Hall of Famer
                            • 02-17-11
                            • 5059

                            #14
                            SD?
                            Comment
                            • Vaughany
                              SBR Aristocracy
                              • 03-07-10
                              • 45563

                              #15
                              Sherdog
                              Comment
                              • bjpenn85
                                SBR Hall of Famer
                                • 02-17-11
                                • 5059

                                #16
                                cheers
                                Comment
                                • Kaladarus
                                  SBR MVP
                                  • 11-11-09
                                  • 1876

                                  #17
                                  Thanks for posting this. Not really interested in the stuff about parlays, but I'll be checking out your blog in the future.
                                  Comment
                                  • MMAbetMASTA
                                    SBR MVP
                                    • 05-24-11
                                    • 1931

                                    #18
                                    Interesting post, TS. Thanks for the insight. It was hard to follow at first but I definitely learned a couple things in this thread. I will say though that while I have hit some very lucrative parlays in the past, in the end I think I end up losing more. I just started playing parlays again about 3 or 4 months ago after getting a 5 dimes account. I fluctuated up and down, and after last weekend's event, I am officially 'down' money in my account when compared to my initial deposit (******* diabate screwed me...).

                                    I think parlays are good to play when you have the right bankroll and good money management. The only reason I started playing them again is because I was doing so well with my str8 bets, I figured I take a couple hundred of that profit and take a stab at parlays (similar as TS described in one of his steps or whatever).

                                    Yet I am losing now, and I've always thought parlays are kind of 'sucker bets' which would make me a sucker I guess haha. However A lot of people on here are quite good at them, but if you aren't or if you are new at it, I suggest staying away or going really small. Once I lose my 5 dimes initial deposit I probably won't re-up and will just stick with large str8s with my book, I will be done with my parlay endeavors!

                                    In the end though, whether its parlays or whether its str8 money line bets, I value the ability to break down fights and compare styles, use proper betting ratios when compared to your bankroll, and value your overall ability to pick pick fights correctly over any sort of formula or play strategy (similar to what rocky was saying I think..)

                                    Good discussion up in here
                                    Comment
                                    • flickavic
                                      SBR High Roller
                                      • 07-23-10
                                      • 181

                                      #19
                                      $5.00 $224.71 $229.71 Win 3 Team Parlay
                                      Win 11/6/11 4:05pm NFL Football 419 Denver Broncos +325* vs
                                      Oakland Raiders
                                      Win 11/6/11 4:05pm NFL Football 421 Cincinnati Bengals +135* vs
                                      Tennessee Titans
                                      Win 11/6/11 4:15pm NFL Football 425 New York Giants +360* vs New
                                      England Patriots

                                      every week in football i pick a couple doggies i like and put 5 on em.normally the payout is not even close to this one but as far back as i remember i win money if i just look at my parlays..this one pays for the year of 5 dollar parlays and i already hit a couple way smaller payout ones..i do not claim to know half of what some of you know but i know it works for me in the nfl every year..i make 3-5 straight bets at larger amounts then my small 5 parlay..like i said i dont claim to know as much as most of ya but i consistently make money ever since i stopped chasing my loses
                                      Comment
                                      • rocky mattioli
                                        SBR MVP
                                        • 08-26-10
                                        • 1263

                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by TheCalculator
                                        Hey Rocky -- Thanks for all the positive vibes and warm-fuzzy hospitality.

                                        Do you welcome all the newbies like this?

                                        I'm certainly not here to pretend that I'm a legend. I'm just here to learn, share and make friends.

                                        It's not that long ago that started wagering and I'm going through the learning curve and sharing what I'm learning.

                                        Obviously my posts are useless to you and I would recommend you ignore them if they "grate" you so much. However -- I have a feeling you get a lot more joy out of spewing negativity and useless rhetoric. It doesn't phase me either way.

                                        As far as posting "theory" vs. "results". I did reply to your UFC 138 post with this:

                                        My biggest plays are:
                                        Munoz,
                                        Mills
                                        Maguire
                                        De Fries

                                        They all won (I did lose on Pickett).

                                        sorry for the negative response...you seem like a fine fellow,and it`s really not personal(even though i know it came off as such)......but these "parlays are de debil hisself"`posts are becoming so redundant on gambling forums and they really are annoying and more than a little pompous(imo)........i should have just passed once i saw the header...

                                        obviously,my feelings on the subject are known...so carry on....i`ll be more respectful going forward.......or just refrain from reading .....

                                        hopefully no hard feelings...i denounce myself for coming on so strong...

                                        g.l.
                                        Last edited by rocky mattioli; 11-08-11, 09:56 AM.
                                        Comment
                                        • rocky mattioli
                                          SBR MVP
                                          • 08-26-10
                                          • 1263

                                          #21
                                          Originally posted by MMAbetMASTA
                                          Interesting post, TS. Thanks for the insight. It was hard to follow at first but I definitely learned a couple things in this thread. I will say though that while I have hit some very lucrative parlays in the past, in the end I think I end up losing more. I just started playing parlays again about 3 or 4 months ago after getting a 5 dimes account. I fluctuated up and down, and after last weekend's event, I am officially 'down' money in my account when compared to my initial deposit (******* diabate screwed me...).

                                          I think parlays are good to play when you have the right bankroll and good money management. The only reason I started playing them again is because I was doing so well with my str8 bets, I figured I take a couple hundred of that profit and take a stab at parlays (similar as TS described in one of his steps or whatever).

                                          Yet I am losing now, and I've always thought parlays are kind of 'sucker bets' which would make me a sucker I guess haha. However A lot of people on here are quite good at them, but if you aren't or if you are new at it, I suggest staying away or going really small. Once I lose my 5 dimes initial deposit I probably won't re-up and will just stick with large str8s with my book, I will be done with my parlay endeavors!

                                          In the end though, whether its parlays or whether its str8 money line bets, I value the ability to break down fights and compare styles, use proper betting ratios when compared to your bankroll, and value your overall ability to pick pick fights correctly over any sort of formula or play strategy (similar to what rocky was saying I think..)

                                          Good discussion up in here

                                          that was absolute perfection mmabm.......i admit that my response to calculator came off as a mean-spirited category 5 clusterf-ck in comparison...

                                          everyone is entitled to shag their own goat as far as parlays are concerned...

                                          /i think i`m a little uptight because i probably had my worst weekend in the nfl in over 2 years....and didn`t fare very well in boxing,either...bad wwekend all around...must have felt it coming ...
                                          Last edited by rocky mattioli; 11-08-11, 10:05 AM.
                                          Comment
                                          • Vaughany
                                            SBR Aristocracy
                                            • 03-07-10
                                            • 45563

                                            #22
                                            Originally posted by rocky mattioli
                                            that was absolute perfection mmabm.......i admit that my response to calculator came off as a mean-spirited category 5 clusterf-ck in comparison...

                                            everyone is entitled to shag their own goat as far as parlays are concerned...

                                            /i think i`m a little uptight because i probably had my worst weekend in the nfl in over 2 years....
                                            Comment
                                            • TheCalculator
                                              SBR MVP
                                              • 10-10-11
                                              • 1683

                                              #23
                                              Originally posted by rocky mattioli


                                              sorry for the negative response...you seem like a fine fellow,and it`s really not personal(even though i know it came off as such)......but these "parlays are de debil hisself"`posts are becoming so redundant on gambling forums and they really are annoying and more than a little pompous(imo)........i should have just passed once i saw the header...

                                              hopefully no hard feelings...i denounce myself for coming on so strong...

                                              g.l.
                                              I appreciate that.
                                              Comment
                                              • sorinnn
                                                SBR Rookie
                                                • 04-20-13
                                                • 33

                                                #24
                                                it's annoying that some books give you a worse price for a parlay than for a single on the same event. Pinny for example.
                                                Comment
                                                • Wanna Bet On It?
                                                  SBR MVP
                                                  • 11-17-11
                                                  • 1032

                                                  #25
                                                  Originally posted by sorinnn
                                                  it's annoying that some books give you a worse price for a parlay than for a single on the same event. Pinny for example.
                                                  It minimizes the disadvantage the books have to deal with by taking bets from Tbird.
                                                  Comment
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