When the wrong fighter wins.

**bogbat** · 06-07-11, 01:47 AM

Originally posted by GunShard

http://blog.fightmetric.com/2011/03/...icial-ufc.html http://blog.fightmetric.com/2010/08/...ic-report.html I heard that the UFC have no control on picking judges to judge fights.

Fightmetric is good but its not perfect. I do agree those two fights you linked went the wrong way.

The athletic commission controls who judges events stateside. The UFC do get to pick their judges when they travel to most other countries though.

**v1y** · 06-07-11, 07:11 AM

The good news is, Dana White always gives the person who he thought won their win bonus.

Somehow he actually said he thought Diego won that fight, although I know for sure he gave both guys a huge locker room bonus.

**kmdubya** · 06-07-11, 10:12 AM

Originally posted by bogbat

Fightmetric is good but its not perfect. I do agree those two fights you linked went the wrong way.

The athletic commission controls who judges events stateside. The UFC do get to pick their judges when they travel to most other countries though.

Only if that country does not have an athletic commission. Canada has them. And so do the European countries they've held events at.

**bogbat** · 06-07-11, 11:44 AM

Originally posted by kmdubya

Only if that country does not have an athletic commission. Canada has them. And so do the European countries they've held events at.

Australia has an athletic commission, both times they have been there they have used them but at the same time brought some of their own judges. Maybe it was just because Australia didn't have enough trained judges for the events.

**kmdubya** · 06-07-11, 12:45 PM

Originally posted by bogbat

Australia has an athletic commission, both times they have been there they have used them but at the same time brought some of their own judges. Maybe it was just because Australia didn't have enough trained judges for the events.

Could be. Although my understanding (from a Dana White rant once) was that the UFC has no judges and has zero say on the judges (which is why Cecil Peoples still has a job).

Might be that the judges that came over for those events were from some of the US athletic commissions, and just got certified in Australia.

**bogbat** · 06-07-11, 12:59 PM

Originally posted by kmdubya

Could be. Although my understanding (from a Dana White rant once) was that the UFC has no judges and has zero say on the judges (which is why Cecil Peoples still has a job). Might be that the judges that came over for those events were from some of the US athletic commissions, and just got certified in Australia.

Yeah well when I say that they bring in they're in judges i don't mean that they bring in people from inside the UFC, they just select people from the US Athletic commissions and even when they select why to bring in they still fuk it up. God knows why they brought Douglas Crosby to Abu Dhabi who turned in that 50-45 Edgar scorecard

**thesox0311** · 06-07-11, 01:10 PM

worst ive ever seen was Ring vs Fukuda early this year. Ring should have lost all three rounds easy.... as far as Diego is concerned i think it was scored corectly. He pushed the action the entire 2nd and 3rd round, and also secured a takedown and passed.

**kmdubya** · 06-07-11, 01:43 PM

Originally posted by thesox0311

worst ive ever seen was Ring vs Fukuda early this year. Ring should have lost all three rounds easy.... as far as Diego is concerned i think it was scored corectly. He pushed the action the entire 2nd and 3rd round, and also secured a takedown and passed.

I put money on Kampmann in the Diego fight and I thought it was close. Fightmetrics is one tool used to score fights. I thought Diego pushed the pace. Kampmann just looked like he wasn't engaging, so I had no problem with the decision in that one.

**Chairib** · 06-07-11, 05:17 PM

stats are for nerds

**Kaladarus** · 06-07-11, 05:53 PM

Originally posted by GunShard

http://blog.fightmetric.com/2011/03/...icial-ufc.html

Machida vs. Shogun FightMetric Report

http://blog.fightmetric.com/2010/08/machida-vs-shogun-fightmetric-report.html

UFC 104 - Lyoto Machida vs. Mauricio "Shogun" Rua

I heard that the UFC have no control on picking judges to judge fights.

The UFC has all the control in the world. They can hand pick judges if they want to. Dana White could care less about a bad decision though. Bad decisions make the UFC money. If judging was really a problem for the UFC they would have it fixed over night.

**kmdubya** · 06-07-11, 05:59 PM

Originally posted by Kaladarus

The UFC has all the control in the world. They can hand pick judges if they want to. Dana White could care less about a bad decision though. Bad decisions make the UFC money. If judging was really a problem for the UFC they would have it fixed over night.

You have no clue as to what you are talking about. But don't let facts get in the way of your statement. Here's a high-five for adding a useless post.

*internet hi-five*

**rocky mattioli** · 06-07-11, 06:20 PM

Originally posted by Chairib

stats are for nerds

certainly in the case of fightmetric and punchstat...as useless as a fart in a colander...

**Ladle** · 06-07-11, 06:37 PM

Originally posted by Kaladarus

The UFC has all the control in the world. They can hand pick judges if they want to.

Uh, no. They couldn't. Mark Ratner occasionally selects judges to be brought in from out of state but only if the given jurisdiction allows that. Otherwise, judges are assigned by the athletic commission.

**Kaladarus** · 06-07-11, 06:59 PM

Originally posted by kmdubya

You have no clue as to what you are talking about. But don't let facts get in the way of your statement. Here's a high-five for adding a useless post.

*internet hi-five*

You are saying that there's facts out there that prove me wrong and some how I'm the one that has no clue what I'm talking about? You must be Dana White or some type of UFC insider. No sport is fixed and no one could pay anyone in any sport off regardless of how much money and power they have right? The WWE must be real also. I guess the UFC can't do anything about the judges they are given right? It's not like they have billions of dollars and "fixing" a judging problem would be simple for them. The UFC gets dumb casual fans like yourself who have no idea what's going on hooked on a product they think they understand. Dana could tell you anything and you would buy it no problem with no questions asked.

**Ladle** · 06-07-11, 07:17 PM

Originally posted by Kaladarus

The UFC gets dumb casual fans like yourself who have no idea what's going on hooked on a product they think they understand.

I think you're generally a pretty knowledgeable poster, but apparently you don't know enough about this subject to start lambasting others for being ill-informed.

Originally posted by Kaladarus

I guess the UFC can't do anything about the judges they are given right? It's not like they have billions of dollars and "fixing" a judging problem would be simple for them.

You think paying off every single athletic commission they deal with to plant their own judges would be simple? Judging is a problem but it will never be worth taking such an obscene risk.

Originally posted by Kaladarus

Dana could tell you anything and you would buy it no problem with no questions asked.

Dana White doesn't care enough to know what's going on himself. Case in point: Paul Sutherland (from England) and Sal D'Amato (from the US) were brought in by Mark Ratner to judge at UFC 127. Dana harshly criticised both of the aforementioned judges' score cards in the Ring/Fukuda fight, even though he was the person who authorised them to come to Australia and judge in the first instance.

**Kaladarus** · 06-07-11, 07:43 PM

I don't think they have to pay everyone off. They have the money and the people working for them to get things changed if it's a priority for them. From a business stand point it doesn't make much sense for Dana to spend money on something that is working well for him. If fans think something is a bad decision, Dana can say that he has no control over the judges and most fans will support him even more for agreeing with them. It's probably true that he doesn't have control right now, but it's very hard to believe that such a big company that has so much money would be unable to get some kind of control by pushing the issue and hiring the right people to fight it.

**Ladle** · 06-07-11, 07:54 PM

Originally posted by Kaladarus

I don't think they have to pay everyone off. They have the money and the people working for them to get things changed if it's a priority for them. From a business stand point it doesn't make much sense for Dana to spend money on something that is working well for him. If fans think something is a bad decision, Dana can say that he has no control over the judges and most fans will support him even more for agreeing with them. It's probably true that he doesn't have control right now, but it's very hard to believe that such a big company that has so much money would be unable to get some kind of control by pushing the issue and hiring the right people to fight it.

Well, the UFC has zero control over who gets hired as a judge. That will always be the responsibility of the commissions (and there are a whole bunch of them).

That aside, judging will never be such an enormous problem that Dana has to start running a seriously shady operation and paying off a bunch of commissions. That's just lunacy.

Believe it or not, there are actually already measures in place to try to improve the state of judging. Mark Ratner has a "pound-for-pound" list of preferred judges, so to speak. Essentially, if a judge puts forward a stupid scorecard, they move down the list, and if a judge puts forward a decent scorecard, they move up the list. Based on that, Ratner can make informed decisions on which judges he wants to bring in from out of state when the time calls for it. It's not a foolproof solution, but it show that Zuffa is actively trying to take precautions against poor judging.

**Ladle** · 06-07-11, 07:59 PM

Accidental double post!