Joshua Clottey vs Manny Pacquiao

[1UP]

Wait...

People still count Manny out with the size "factor" after he destroyed DLH and Cotto? Clottey's weight will have no bearing on this, trust me. He is not a busy fighter, and that is his biggest problem. If anything, he can't even close a fight out. He lost his composure with Baldomir, Corrales had no business at Welter and he survived, and Clottey literally gift wrapped the decision/draw for Cotto. He struggles every time his hand speed is slower than his opponent. What do you think a workhorse like Manny will do, get into a defensive shell and let Clottey pin him in a corner? It won't even be close going into the 10th.

As good of a fighter as Josh is, he is completely outclassed here. Great chance to see the final bell, seeing how the guy never seems to be hurt. No chance to keep the scores close though.

[Pabinator]

Pacman doesnt even know what steriods are, what a joke

[ijrod21i]

Pacman is concerned about Clottey being bigger. He basically said it's Clottey's only ADVANTAGE.

[Pabinator]

Pacroid should have an easy fight, but when he does I hope he fights the winner of Mosely/MMW

[l7ustin]

im on clottey

[Trixie]

No offence, Mac. Not trying to be a dick, but merely a positive contributor...

I'm on Clottey. This guy got robbed in the Cotto fight. He beat the shit out of Cotto and could have easily knocked him out but took it easy in the championship rounds. Pacman barely knocked out Cotto who wasn't in as good a shape as when he fought Clottey.

It is true that he got robbed on the Cotto fight, but for precisely the reason that he lost that fight he never had any chance to win this one. He is a mental midget and Pacquiao is a mental collossus. Clottey caves when the going gets tough and you could see it from as early as the 4th round when Cotto threw him to the floor and he considered quitting there and then. Instead he fought on and then quit through the championship rounds instead.

Pacquiao also didn't "barely knock out Cotto" - he beat him to a pulp and the only reason he didn't obliterate him was that Cotto ran for his life and Pacquiao was not a willing chaser. You could see Pac look at the ref on several occasions to ask him what was the point. Cotto was also in supreme shape vs. Pacquiao compared to the shape he was in vs. Clottey. This is fact.

Clottey is bigger and a great counter puncher. He can defend Pacman's crazy, erratic style. I think he will come in around 160 which will be a huge advantage. This guy can hit like an ox. I also think he can keep Manny off guard with a solid jab.

This is mostly true, save for the counter puncher part. He doesn't really counter punch, but more wait for you to finish attacking and then hit you back. He has done this his entire career and is exactly the reason why Manny will hit him and then gtfo of dodge before Clottey can find him again.

One other thing to think about is all the talk about Manny not wanting to be tested. You better believe he's going to be tested thoroughly in this one and he may be over cautious in what he takes. A part of me thinks Manny might have been on something in the past and this may very well be the first fight he's fighting legit. I think he's not going to have the snap, power and it remains to be seen if his stamina takes a hit. If so, he could be running into a buzz saw. Clottey is much, much bigger than Manny. Remember this.

Actually Manny took this fight precisely so that he wouldn't need to be tested. If he was ok with being tested like Mayweather wanted he would have just fought Mayweather. Instead he took a fight with Clottey who is promoted by Top Rank, same as Pacquiao, so that he could circumvent all of the testing complications. That's how the fight was made so quickly because both of these guys are from the same stable.

Look back to the Cotto/Margarito fight. The public was all over Cotto. My buddy was at the weigh in and he called me and told me to hammer Margarito because he was huge as hell. Check the weigh in. If Clottey comes in big, then imagine him when he's rehydrated. This has upset written all over it.

That is one extreme example. You could cite Frasier-Ali or Tyson-nearly anyone as counter arguments. We all know that Clottey will come in huge. But the fight does not have upset written all over it. I wrote a huge piece in my own thread on this and I can't be bothered to look it up or regurgitate everything. It's on the SBR boxing forum. Clottey is training in a ramshackle gym with one sparring partner. His trainer can't get a **** to come to the States so he has had to promote his part-time locksmith cutman who has gone on record several times saying Pacquiao is the same fighter he was five years ago. Further, Clottey's childhood friend and the guy that he trained with for 11+ years is now Pacquiao's sparring partner for the fight.

In reality Clottey doesn't even have a chance. This is a no-risk fight to keep Pacquiao warm while he prepares for Mayweather at the end of the year.

Again, not trying to be a dick, sorry to contradict you. You can feel free to bump this and make me look like an idiot if Clottey wins, but everything I'm saying is true.

[Mac4Lyfe]

^^^ No problem. That's why we all are here. To have meaningful dialog and discussion. No hurt feelings at all. You make some great points especially about Clottey's trainer being locked out. How much does his cutman really know? Is he a better factor than Pacman's camp? Probably not.

I think both guys being with top rank makes it a better bet on Clottey. They all can make more money if Clottey wins. Think about it? I also think that if Clottey mentions anything about testing or any type of mind game then that sets up well for Clottey. In my mind, if there's a lot of trash talking and overall show at the weigh in then I like Clottey more because it sets up for a rematch. If the weigh in is subdued then Clottey may fall quickly. I'm not necessarily saying the fix is in but I wouldn't bet against it.

Cotto was running against Manny but the fight could have continued. Yes he did take a beating.

I do think Clottey has a chance here. He's a puncher and all puncher's have a chance. Can he handle Manny's speed is the question. I'm not sure but I think his defense is much better than Cotto's and I think he can handle an awkward Manny, throwing punches in bunches at different angles. This will be a much tougher fight for Manny then Cotto was IMO.

[pat venditto]

Think this is pacquiao's hardest challenge to date. If you watch some interviews and shit on youtube with pacman being interviewed he is always saying how hard it is for him to stay a 147 pounder (He has to eat a ton or else he would probably drop to 135 quickly)

Clottey will be 160+ and I think this could be crucial. Yes pacman is faster and in all likelyhood the judges are probably paid off (Meaning if the fight is close at all than manny gets it), I still think taking clottey by ko at +740 is worth a shot.

[Trixie]

The cutman, Lenny de Jesus - who knows. Negative is that he's never been a trainer before, and that as far as I can tell, he doesn't appreciate the vast, myriad improvements that Pacquiao has made since Morales I. Positive being that he has been in boxing for a long time, and that he actually used to be Pacquiao's cutman before he joined Clottey's team, and so should at least understand the mammoth training regimes Pac undertakes, and that Clottey had better be in similar shape if he is to compete.

You make a good point about how it makes financial sense for Clottey to win, as Pac will likely quit the sport for politics pretty soon and that cash cow will end there, so why let two of Top Rank's money-makers decrease their value in one fight? My personal theory though, and this is completely unfounded, is that Pacquiao and his team declined the blood tests as a way to back out of the way with Mayweather for the time being, so that they could fight him later in December, once he has had more time to work on dealing with his style. Roach, back last year, spoke often about how he would need 6 months to prepare for Mayweather, and the turnaround from the Cotto fight would have been barely 3 months, given that Pac needs to do political shit in May. For that reason I think it still makes sense for Top Rank to want Pac to win, as a Pac-Mayweather fight will have Bob Arum and everyone else involved swimming in a pool of money like scrooge mcduck, and no amount of Clottey bouts will get even close to that.

As for Clottey trash-talking... I think it is unlikely. Did you catch the Road to Dallas preview that ran instead of a 24/7? Clottey seems more like a dude who is enjoying the ride. In every interview he has been paying nothing but respect to Pacquiao. Things might intensify a little in the next few days, especially with Roach saying today that inside, Clottey's best punch is the uppercut and his second best is a headbutt, but I doubt it. I don't know, we'll see.

I definitely agree that it is a tougher fight than Cotto but I still don't think he has a plausible chance. I think that Pacquiao will make him quit late, or make the ref end the fight due to repeated accummulation. That said, Clottey has never even been so much as shook up in his entire career and Pac is a beefed up feather weight. So what damage can he really do?

I've heard it said often that if people have a strong chin, like Clottey [or, say, Margarito], they don't like to get hit in the body. We'll see if that comes up. Clottey's high guard definitely allows for this.

Personally, I feel that the clincher is in something that Nazim Richardson said a while back. He was asked about Pacquiao/Mayweather, back when it was thought to be happening, and he said that he always told Shane that the best trick the devil ever pulled was to make people believe he didn't exist, just like the best trick Pacquiao ever pulled was making people believe he was a little guy. People like DLH and Hatton and Cotto thought that they could bully him, that they are stronger than him when in reality they weren't - he's not a small guy. He is a phenomenal athlete. Nazim said calling him a small WW is like calling Tyson a small HW. As long as you think you can physically impose upon him he will annihilate you. And every time you put a mic near Clottey's mouth he will tell you he is too strong, too big for Pacquiao and that is how he will beat him. Apparently he and his trainer are the only people who haven't learnt the lessons of Pacquiao's previous 4 or so fights.

[Foals]

I am from the Philippines, and at the moment I'd really be hesitant to lay -600 or even -500 on Manny. The elections are coming up here in about two months, and at the moment there are so many distractions for Manny that he may not be focused for this fight. Obviously, Mayweather is in a class of his own compared to Clottey, but this might just lower Manny's guard down. The fact that he has also been busy in showbiz, making movies, TV shows and commercials seems like he isn't taking the fight very seriously. I still feel that Manny would win though, but considering all the distractions that he has, (he's even been accused of cheating on his wife with a showbiz personality) it isn't much of a sure thing.

[Trixie]

I am from the Philippines, and at the moment I'd really be hesitant to lay -600 or even -500 on Manny. The elections are coming up here in about two months, and at the moment there are so many distractions for Manny that he may not be focused for this fight. Obviously, Mayweather is in a class of his own compared to Clottey, but this might just lower Manny's guard down. The fact that he has also been busy in showbiz, making movies, TV shows and commercials seems like he isn't taking the fight very seriously. I still feel that Manny would win though, but considering all the distractions that he has, (he's even been accused of cheating on his wife with a showbiz personality) it isn't much of a sure thing.

IMO, the distractions were worse in the build up to the Cotto fight. Manny was shooting a soap, making Wapakman and there were the landslides, and his affair was in the news back then too. One of the things that seperates Manny from his contemporaries is his incredible focus. I really don't think that he will let any of that stuff get in the way of his preparation, nor break his focus on the task at hand.

I also get the impression that he is desperate to kick Floyd Mayweather's ass and knows that he needs to end Clottey to stay in contention to do that.

I wouldn't lay -500 or anything close to that on Manny, but I will definitely bet the win via stoppage.

[sundin4prez]

so is anyone going to this fight by any any chance?...... does anyone know what the attendance is going to be?

[Barroco]

pacquiao by unanimous decision, clottey has a steel chin.

[Pabinator]

@ +740 it is worth doing a small bet on Clotty, gives me a reason to watch & if Clotty wins its way worth it. I think?

[shady610]

so is anyone going to this fight by any any chance?...... does anyone know what the attendance is going to be?

i heard 40k on a special on tv. but i could have mis herad

[Trixie]

Yeah, I have heard 40k and rising.

[Pecos Bill]

Im gonna get it on ppv, hopefully its a good fight.

[ehp6737]

Manny Pacquiao is unbeatable.

Agreed......KO 4th round

[Mac4Lyfe]

You make a good point about how it makes financial sense for Clottey to win, as Pac will likely quit the sport for politics pretty soon and that cash cow will end there, so why let two of Top Rank's money-makers decrease their value in one fight? My personal theory though, and this is completely unfounded, is that Pacquiao and his team declined the blood tests as a way to back out of the way with Mayweather for the time being, so that they could fight him later in December, once he has had more time to work on dealing with his style. Roach, back last year, spoke often about how he would need 6 months to prepare for Mayweather, and the turnaround from the Cotto fight would have been barely 3 months, given that Pac needs to do political shit in May. For that reason I think it still makes sense for Top Rank to want Pac to win, as a Pac-Mayweather fight will have Bob Arum and everyone else involved swimming in a pool of money like scrooge mcduck, and no amount of Clottey bouts will get even close to that.

Trixie - You know your game. Very thoughtful analysis. I agree that Pac-Mayweather would have Top Rank swimming in money but think about Clottey beating Manny first which sets up an epic rematch in a few months, then he Fight's Mayweather a year from now in an even bigger payday.

That way, they would set Clottey up in the future for Top Rank. If there was a spot to lose, this would be it. Win, win for Top Rank... IMO

[Trixie]

Well, we'll see, I guess. Clottey has a shot but it is an unlikely one. Anything can happen, but I'll have my money on Pacquiao by KO/TKO. Although that said, not a huge amount.

[pico]

black boxers are dangerous

[pat venditto]

But he's not african american. He's not just going to talk shit before the fight and bad mouth you as much as he can to sell the fight. He's a humble guy and I happen to like him from the interviews I see. I like both fighters im just hoping for a good match.

[Trixie]

He is humble, but I personally don't like him because he buckles mentally and that's not a quality I admire in a fighter. Props to him for fighting with a broken hand and a damaged one vs. Margarito, but don't quit on the Cotto fight when he is running away and cut and there to be beaten, then complain after you don't get the decision.

[RobbReport]

i agree, Clottey seems like a nice guy but he should have finished that fight. Manny is way more ferocious that Cotto can be, and he will just have another guy to prove he is indeed ready for Mayweather.

[JuicedUp]

This is all you need to capp the Pacquiao vs Clottey fight:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5cxoI9vmDM

[Pabinator]

You guys are right, I just cant see Pacroid losing this fight, that being said, I put a small wager on Clotty

[Mac4Lyfe]

Wow, Manny looked pretty soft at that weigh in. Clottey came in cut as hell. Plus Manny barely hit 144 lbs. Clottey is going to be dam near 160 tomorrow night.

I'm all over Clottey in this one. I was hoping for some trash talking but oh well. I smell an upset.

[Trixie]

Interesting that you thought the weigh-in was a positive for Clottey. I saw it completely the other way. Team Clottey were clearly worried their man wasn't gonna make weight so they checked him out before hand and didn't let anyone see. Pretty bad news if he had to dehydrate to get down there. Not sure. Clottey is a monster though.

[JuicedUp]

Wow, Manny looked pretty soft at that weigh in. Clottey came in cut as hell. Plus Manny barely hit 144 lbs. Clottey is going to be dam near 160 tomorrow night. I'm all over Clottey in this one. I was hoping for some trash talking but oh well. I smell an upset.

you might as well burn your money!

[Pecos Bill]

pacquio is out of shape, couldnt even see his six pack. Clottey looks ready to fight.

[Ian]

I don't think seeing which guy looks more ripped at the weigh in is a good way to cap fights. It's not a bodybuilding contest, and it's not as if Pacquaio came in covered in flab looking like Gabe Brown or somebody. Looking cut might even be bad in some circumstances. For example, bodybuilders will dehydrate themselves before a competition to achieve a better look. So a fighter who looks like he's in prime shape may (and I stress the word "may") actually be dehydrated and not in the best fighting shape.

Besides, there are some pretty reasonable explanations for Pacquiao looking less cut than at the Cotto weigh in. He was flexing while on the scale last time around. This time he was just standing there. The camera angle was such that the scale obscured most of his body anyway whereas at the Cotto weigh in the scale did not obscure the fighters.

I'm laying off betting this fight, but it has nothing to do with the weigh in.

[shady610]

heading to the sbr book to lay a bet on clottey just because i think the boxing gods will be against manny

[2daBank]

why are people discussing pillow fighting? oh yeah, some people still call it boxing....

what a gay sport, two guys stand around and hug each other for 12 rounds because they can't knock each other out...talk about unwatchable...

do like watching grown sweaty men roll around on the ground with each other...do you wish it could be you in a "hold"

[2daBank]

I'm on Clottey. This guy got robbed in the Cotto fight. He beat the shit out of Cotto and could have easily knocked him out but took it easy in the championship rounds. Pacman barely knocked out Cotto who wasn't in as good a shape as when he fought Clottey.

Clottey is bigger and a great counter puncher. He can defend Pacman's crazy, erratic style. I think he will come in around 160 which will be a huge advantage. This guy can hit like an ox. I also think he can keep Manny off guard with a solid jab.

One other thing to think about is all the talk about Manny not wanting to be tested. You better believe he's going to be tested thoroughly in this one and he may be over cautious in what he takes. A part of me thinks Manny might have been on something in the past and this may very well be the first fight he's fighting legit. I think he's not going to have the snap, power and it remains to be seen if his stamina takes a hit. If so, he could be running into a buzz saw. Clottey is much, much bigger than Manny. Remember this.

Look back to the Cotto/Margarito fight. The public was all over Cotto. My buddy was at the weigh in and he called me and told me to hammer Margarito because he was huge as hell. Check the weigh in. If Clottey comes in big, then imagine him when he's rehydrated. This has upset written all over it.

it didnt even look like they where in the same weight class...manny looked tiny

[2daBank]

Pacman doesnt even know what steriods are, what a joke

that why he didnt want the test.....oh thats right mr tough guy scared of needles