natural vs truth...

**Pride>UFC** · 11-11-09, 11:50 AM

sorry didn't mean to post this twice...

that's what wake n bake does to u...

by the way, any thoughts on Swick vs Hardy or Bisping vs Kang?

**The HOFF** · 11-11-09, 12:29 PM

Not a big fan of the Couture/Vera fight betting wise. I agree with what you have said and believe Randy should win. But the thing that worries me is that he was dropped twice and hurt bad against Nog by some rather mundane punches. I think time is catching up to him. Any clean shot from Vera could hurt him.

Swick is the only play I have made so far. I don't see anywhere that Hardy has an advantage.

**Eccocide** · 11-11-09, 01:49 PM

Prolly Gunna be on Randy but I don't think he will want to even try his dirty boxing due to veras nasty clinch game. I assume he will try to get it to the ground as fast as possible.

**clarkd32** · 11-11-09, 10:14 PM

what about the wilks/brown fight? isn't wilks TUF winner?

**Sekrah** · 11-12-09, 05:08 AM

Brandon Vera should be -200 to -250 here.

Supreme chin, supreme muay thai. Couture's only out is taking it the distance with dirty boxing. His age is catching up with him.

**Bread** · 11-12-09, 09:52 AM

Yes, Wilks was the TUF winner last season. Won as a big upset over DeMarques Johnson in the final.

**Pride>UFC** · 11-12-09, 11:10 AM

Originally posted by Sekrah

Brandon Vera should be -200 to -250 here.

Supreme chin, supreme muay thai. Couture's only out is taking it the distance with dirty boxing. His age is catching up with him.

Are u an idiot? supreme muay thai? how was that against Reede Andy? or Jardine? If Vera can't put away those clowns, Randy's gonna destroy him.

Randy lost to Noguiera and Brock, two top heavyweights, so an average middleweight has no chance...smart guy

**Sekrah** · 11-12-09, 11:22 AM

Originally posted by Pride>UFC

Are u an idiot? supreme muay thai? how was that against Reede Andy? or Jardine? If Vera can't put away those clowns, Randy's gonna destroy him.

Randy lost to Noguiera and Brock, two top heavyweights, so an average middleweight has no chance...smart guy

You're going to be very disappointed after this fight my friend. Couture is 46 years old. 2 fights in 2 years, one war just 2 1/2 months ago that I doubt someone of his age is fully recovered from. If you think he's going win this fight, you are going to be very disappointed.

Vera bigtime here. Randy isn't destroying ANYBODY. Especially with Vera's chin. Good work sorting through their records. Do you actually watch the fights?

**RobbReport** · 11-12-09, 11:32 AM

Originally posted by Pride>UFC

Are u an idiot? supreme muay thai? how was that against Reede Andy? or Jardine? If Vera can't put away those clowns, Randy's gonna destroy him.

Randy lost to Noguiera and Brock, two top heavyweights, so an average middleweight has no chance...smart guy

he's not a middleweight dumbass.

**RobbReport** · 11-12-09, 11:34 AM

i'm just going to say I would be very suprised if Couture makes it 3 rounds.

**GoldRush7** · 11-12-09, 11:40 AM

Originally posted by RobbReport

i'm just going to say I would be very suprised if Couture makes it 3 rounds.

I won't, simply because if Nog couldn't finish him there is no way in **** that Vera is going to... I'm on Couture all the way don't matter how old he is, he is always in good shape and always ready to bang

**The HOFF** · 11-12-09, 11:42 AM

Originally posted by GoldRush7

he is always in good shape and always ready to bang

When did Couture start doing porn?

**GoldRush7** · 11-12-09, 11:43 AM

good one

**Pride>UFC** · 11-12-09, 11:44 AM

Originally posted by RobbReport

he's not a middleweight dumbass.

my mistake, but Vera's not gonna win dumbass...sorry

**RobbReport** · 11-12-09, 11:48 AM

we'll see, bitchface...we'll see

**The HOFF** · 11-12-09, 11:54 AM

WOW. Getting hostile in here!!

**Sekrah** · 11-12-09, 11:58 AM

Originally posted by RobbReport

we'll see, bitchface...we'll see

Don't you know that Pride>UFC looks at records and stuff? Did you know Couture lost to Nog and Lesnar? Clearly Pride>UFC is a bigtime sharp.

**Riot** · 11-12-09, 02:05 PM

Vera struggles when he starts to get outclassed. If his plan doesnt get off to a good start, he backs away from it. Look at the tim sylvia fight, he should have won, he didnt listen to Loyd Irvin, he didnt use the push kick to set up combos, he didnt put himself in a good spot to win.

Granted anybody can win any given fight, but if the fight is fought 100 times, i think Randy wins in the high 60's. I see Vera comming out striking and Coture taking him down and controlling him. Vera will win the striking battle, but i see easily 10 of the 15 minutes of this fight beeing on the ground. Also , the biggest , most under-rated factor in all fights .... Cardio. Vera will be swinging, then trying to block a takedown, then scrambling, then trying to block cotures strikes .... factor in the "losing the fight" mentality .... i think Coture dominates the longer this fight goes.

**vassman86** · 11-12-09, 02:57 PM

Children, children, you need to relax. There's no need to get so defensive. That's what betting is about: we all think differently, and we'll come out with completely different perspectives for making picks. I think Vera will TKO Couture. For some reason, fighters that get knocked out have a tendency to get knocked out some more. Out of his last five losses, Couture's been (T)KO'd four times. As someone else mentioned, he was rocked several times by some questionable punches in his last fight against Nogueira.

Don't get me wrong, Couture can have several more fights in him as he signed a 6-fight contract just after his loss to Nogueira. I just think 40-year olds don't fare too well in such a physical sport. No one can defy the effects of old age. Look at Chuck Liddell: lost 4 of his last fights before retiring. Ken Shamrock: lost 5 of his last 6 fights due to (T)KO.

This is the beginning of the end for Randy.

**Sekrah** · 11-12-09, 03:14 PM

Originally posted by vassman86

Children, children, you need to relax. There's no need to get so defensive. That's what betting is about: we all think differently, and we'll come out with completely different perspectives for making picks. I think Vera will TKO Couture. For some reason, fighters that get knocked out have a tendency to get knocked out some more. Out of his last five losses, Couture's been (T)KO'd four times. As someone else mentioned, he was rocked several times by some questionable punches in his last fight against Nogueira.

Don't get me wrong, Couture can have several more fights in him as he signed a 6-fight contract just after his loss to Nogueira. I just think 40-year olds don't fare too well in such a physical sport. No one can defy the effects of old age. Look at Chuck Liddell: lost 4 of his last fights before retiring. Ken Shamrock: lost 5 of his last 6 fights due to (T)KO.

This is the beginning of the end for Randy.

Agreed with pretty much everything that was said here. What stands out for me is that Couture is 46 and has had ONLY TWO FIGHTS in the past 2 years. And he's looked completely, and totally washed up.

Couture hasn't looked good since 2003. His lone impressive win since those Liddell/Ortiz days was against Gonzaga who is more and more looking like a one-hit wonder. Couture went 5 rounds with glass-jaw Tim Sylvia and couldn't knock him out. Vera has a massive edge in speed and striking here. Couture is old and slow and moving into the Light Heavyweight division with MUCH faster opponents.

Here's Vera's quote on the match:

“People always wanted to know what Brandon Vera's at his full potential would look like. I tell you, me fighting Randy Couture, he's gonna bring out every ounce of everything I got. This is my most important fight just because I get to prove to people around the world that I'm one of the top dogs in the world. It's a big fight... big, big fight,”

**Eccocide** · 11-12-09, 03:51 PM

Lol couture only fought 2 times in the last 2 years? Skew the stats all u want. This will be his 3rd fight in the past year. And there was a year long break before that because of the legal battle? U make it sound like one of the best gameplanners in mma is going to stand and trade for 3 rounds. Randy will take this to the ground and fight his fight not veras. If u think this is going to be a cake walk for Vera u will be the one in for a surprise. This will be a good fight.

**Sekrah** · 11-12-09, 04:12 PM

Yea great idea except that Vera has world class Greco skills, probably one of the top 3 in the LHW division.

Couture is going to get clowned.

**Eccocide** · 11-12-09, 04:23 PM

No doubt he had good wrestling and grappling as he's shown in abu dhabi but it's not on randys level. Ur right maybe Vera will clown him as bad as he did his last 6 opponents...we'll see soon enough!

**southmadejd** · 11-12-09, 05:42 PM

Originally posted by Sekrah

Couture went 5 rounds with glass-jaw Tim Sylvia and couldn't knock him out.

Wow, you are an idiot. Out of 31 fight Sylvia has been KOd once and that was by a former Boxing Champion. Dumbass.

**Riot** · 11-12-09, 06:39 PM

Guys, please no this, your only as good as your past 3 years. The sport is always evolving, your training techniques and partners are always changing. Newer supplements, motivation, drive, hungar. All these things factor into what kind of fighter your going to be. You say four of Coutures last losses have been by TKO's. Come on now, your counting a cut that stopped the fight vs Belfort 48 secs into the fight .... Couture won the rematch. Then 2 losses to Lidell in his prime and then the loss to Lesnar (only TKO loss in the past 3 years) Lesnar was winning that fight and looked better against lesnar then anybody we have seen. Dont feed me Mir's submission over him.

A few more notes ... Sylvia was pretty much knocked out to set up the submission loss vs fedor. However Couture is not a KO specalisit. He grounds, pounds and outlast his opponents.

Couture is 2-2 in last 3 years, (W Sylvia, Gonzaga), (L Lesnar Nougeria)
Vera is 4-3 in last 3 years , (W Mir, Reese Andy, Mike Patt, Soszynski) (L Sylvia, Werdum, Jardine)

Mike Patt got me my first MMA fight, awesome guy, but hes past his prime. Should have been in UFC 5 years ago, Mir was comming back from his accident and wasnt the same Mir ..... im just not overly impressed with Brandon Vera ... Both great fighters, but i think Couture is smarter and craftier.

Just because Couture only had 4 fights in past 3 years doesnt mean he hasnt been training and sparing. For those of you who dont fight, some of the best hard fought battles are fought in your gym.

Edge : Couture

**raydog** · 11-13-09, 02:14 AM

bums...both of em. yep, i said it. theres a reason why its on spike and its not because its in england.

**Bread** · 11-13-09, 07:39 AM

Waitaminute...this isn't a PPV? It's on Spike? Awesome! I can record that for when I get home on Sunday.

**Pride>UFC** · 11-13-09, 11:53 AM

Vera: lost to Jardine (a TUF can), couldn't finish Reese Andy (the biggest can ever), beat a huge can in a prelim that wasn't even aired until after the main event with leg kicks, couldn't finish Krystoff (another overrated TUF can), and hasn't had ANY impressive fights at 205.

Randy, however, was looking decent vs freaking Brock Lesnar, the current hw champ until he got caught, and didn't look bad against Noguiera, the 2nd best hw ever.

Are you guys even serious? How stupid are all of u gonna look when Randy is on top of Vera for 3 rounds?

After the fight, the idiots who bet on Vera will be

meanwhile, the educated fans will be

because all along we knew this fight was a

**Riot** · 11-13-09, 06:58 PM

I agree that couture should win .... but i hate how people rip fighters. Can ? Really ? I dont even understand what that means. I agree Couture has fought tougher opponents, But Krys isnt ovverated. He beat some good guys and barley got on the map. Mike Patt was a beast in Bodog. Jardine has beat his fair share of top fighters. I dont know anything about reese andy, but anybody who makes it to the UFC has got alot of talent. If you dont think so, go watch your local PRO/AM show. Youll see the huge talent gap.

**RobbReport** · 11-13-09, 08:02 PM

i want to go am then pro myself.

**The HOFF** · 11-13-09, 08:52 PM

Where have you been Riot???

**The HOFF** · 11-14-09, 02:40 AM

What does Randy do if he gets KOd? Does he retire?

**urge2kill** · 11-14-09, 03:36 AM

Originally posted by The HOFF

What does Randy do if he gets KOd? Does he retire?

Doesn't he have 5 or 6 fights left on his contract? I doubt he retires.