Er. Are you serious? Pinnacle have 100.3% for those scores, SBObet are 110.5%. 188bet (not sure you could call them a probook anyway) are 104.4%. Massive difference across the different firms.Originally Posted by bigcash
Does anyone sees huge differences in these prices or it is just you?
He seems to understand that SBO and 188 do not offer the same service pinnacle does as you claimed.
using quoted by someone else sounds professional and give me picture you understand topic extremely well.
Your post in the other thread claiming 'big rollers' will make more profit because of the 5x rollover needed, along with the SBO claim, kind of suggest it's you that might not understand BC
It is nice you and he understands pinnacle and me not.He seems to understand that SBO and 188 do not offer the same service pinnacle does as you claimed.
Your post in the other thread claiming 'big rollers' will make more profit because of the 5x rollover needed, along with the SBO claim, kind of suggest it's you that might not understand BC
I congratulate you! I wrote that pinnacle will have more winners when introducing 5 times rollover on every customers mainly huge rollers will win in pinnacle much more. That what I knows from my experience because I withdraw only when I need my turnovers reaches 1,5-2m within a day or two so I have quite nice picture at least for my personal use.
All compliment to you Optional you rock.
Last edited by bigcash; 04-12-14 at 06:22 AM.
yea let's cover each outcome on correct scores... I would be curious what is volumes on this market. I see no reason to be indignant here.
Volumes on correct scores and 1X2 markets are higher in Europe than Asian hcaps. SBObet seems to have majority access from SE-Asia but how many of those customers use agents who can leave large deposits and charge their customers or work in cash? 188bet appears to have UK as its highest customer base so the higher margin markets are likely to be more used.
Pinnacle appear to have a different strategy in that they price every market to a low percentage using the correct scores as a starting point. There is no reason for a bookie to have increased juice for essentially the same bet. A win bet for one team is just dutching all the correct scores for that team winning.
SBObet and 188bet increase the juice for the extra outcomes. If a player wants those outcomes he pays more. You may argue the sort of punter that needs the five time rollover only bets Asians anyway. I am not convinced.
But surely you can see that on your lowest 2.3% deposit figure a bookie offering 2-3% books for all their markets (with no higher juice markets to boost margins) is going to struggle if their customers deposit and withdraw for every bet??
You suggest Pinnacle close the accounts of five percentage of their customers, I suggested a points system for longer term rollovers, Pinnacle themselves introduced this five times thing.
Whatever. Everyone please push on pinnacle to change rule 30. Let me know guys when pinnacle change their mind. Until then it is useless deposit straight. Just use service of brokers like asianconnect88 - that's my only recommendation and hope that asianconnect88 has enough cash to pay us out all whenever we request that.Volumes on correct scores and 1X2 markets are higher in Europe than Asian hcaps. SBObet seems to have majority access from SE-Asia but how many of those customers use agents who can leave large deposits and charge their customers or work in cash? 188bet appears to have UK as its highest customer base so the higher margin markets are likely to be more used.
Pinnacle appear to have a different strategy in that they price every market to a low percentage using the correct scores as a starting point. There is no reason for a bookie to have increased juice for essentially the same bet. A win bet for one team is just dutching all the correct scores for that team winning.
SBObet and 188bet increase the juice for the extra outcomes. If a player wants those outcomes he pays more. You may argue the sort of punter that needs the five time rollover only bets Asians anyway. I am not convinced.
But surely you can see that on your lowest 2.3% deposit figure a bookie offering 2-3% books for all their markets (with no higher juice markets to boost margins) is going to struggle if their customers deposit and withdraw for every bet??
You suggest Pinnacle close the accounts of five percentage of their customers, I suggested a points system for longer term rollovers, Pinnacle themselves introduced this five times thing.
Last edited by bigcash; 04-12-14 at 08:01 AM.
if the 95% were already rolling over their deposits on a regular basis what is the point of your idea? they won't even notice the rule 30. The only question is if that 5% is an accurate number.Simply they could introduce this rule only to their 5% abusing customers while rest 95% would not be touched.
Guy from pinnacle said in the q&a session that they get much much more volume on asian hcaps than on 1x2Volumes on correct scores and 1X2 markets are higher in Europe than Asian hcaps.
Maybe if you read more of my post you would not ask here. 5% of customers is unreal in my opinion and I really doubt it from very beginning.if the 95% were already rolling over their deposits on a regular basis what is the point of your idea? they won't even notice the rule 30. The only question is if that 5% is an accurate number.
Point is that I feel unsafe with pinnacle in these days when I know they might have financial and pay out difficulties.
Hope they will resolve soon.
I don't doubt it is with Pinnacle. BigCash was talking about other bookies who operate from a different situation. SBObet sponsored WestHam and 188bet got involved with ManCity. Pinnacle does none of this therefore is far more likely to be lower margin.Guy from pinnacle said in the q&a session that they get much much more volume on asian hcaps than on 1x2
BigCash just says 'whatever' to my key question.....
But surely you can see that on your lowest 2.3% deposit figure a bookie offering 2-3% books for all their markets (with no higher juice markets to boost margins) is going to struggle if their customers deposit and withdraw for every bet??
This is a problem I think they face. He thinks it is best solved by going with Dr.M.J. Hugenholtzweg's license that is plastered over a number of operations in the NA. I am not so sure. The whole offshore thing is based on trust. Pinnacle have been around a long time so currently I trust them although it would be nice to know who owns them and who the head trader is etc.
what's the minimum odds of the bet to count for the rollover requirement? if i bet something at -10,000 does my risk amount count towards the rollover?
No minimum at Pinnacle.what's the minimum odds of the bet to count for the rollover requirement? if i bet something at -10,000 does my risk amount count towards the rollover?
Hareeba does it mean that if i deposit 1000 and win 3000,i can withdraw 2000 without 3%. And i need to rollover 4 more times 1000 i left at my acc. If this is case,then it is ok.
The withdrawal of what you win is free of the 3% charge in my understanding.Hareeba does it mean that if i deposit 1000 and win 3000,i can withdraw 2000 without 3%. And i need to rollover 4 more times 1000 i left at my acc. If this is case,then it is ok.
But I don't believe you're correct in regard to the remaining rollover requirement. That's not dependent on your balance but on how much you've wagered.
You still need to have wagered a total of $5,000 since your deposit before you can withdraw any more the way I understand it.
But what still has yet to be explained is how lost bets are treated in the required turnover equation.
Not sure why license is brought up, but they are in the process of getting licensed in a major European market. Don't expect the license to be an issue after that (if it is an issue now).
I have heard pinnacle did just fine last year financially, so this has nothing to do with them being in trouble. This has everything to do with management fine tuning their business model.
Pinnacle attracts a lot of arbitrage action, people that arbitrage move around money from book to book.
5% of their customers might be responsible for 20% of their transactions because of the arbing.
Pinnacle has been trying to expand in the Asian market ever since they left the usa market. I would see their low margins as a way to get a bigger market share in Asia. I have heard it is working although it's not yet at the same level as IBC or SBO.
