Pinnaclesports withdrawal fees....are you kidding me ?

Originally Posted by real1992

dont mess arbers with abusers,at least at pinny.... big arbers create turnovers that even 1000 regular players cant do in a month...

Right. Most scalpers/traders/arbers aren't going to care about the rule either. They dont want to mess around with deposits when they see a nice price. Its the guy looking at Oddschecker's 100 books who never keeps a balance anywhere and always pulls his chunk back after the bet so he has it ready to deposit somewhere else in case his next hit isn't at Pinnacle. He may be an arber too but arbers aren't inherently bad for biz.

So a round trip of a deposit/withdraw is around 4%. Their overrounds are around 2-3% so their actual profit margin is probably 0.75%-1.4% (when you take into account the sharps) and you guys object to having to turn your money over 5 times to get a 'free' withdraw.

They have a negative profit expectation on the money you deposit unless you bet it several times. Even at 5 times they probably only expect to break even. Under the old system if more and more people start moving money on a daily basis the transaction costs will exceed their betting margin.

They either have to charge for withdrawing money, insist on a rollover (to give them a fair chance of breaking even), increase their margins (worse odds for everyone) or close the business.

I hope pinnacle removes the "arber" friendly claim from their site because they are clearly not now. Also disingenuous to find out about such a significant change to their payment policy through a forum thread and then a twitter PR release instead of an announcement to their customers list via e-mail. This whole thing reeks IMO and I'll be switching books. Every book can claim to be the biggest, the safest and "the best" until the day they go down. There's no regulatory body worth a damn governing these books and their business operations. I have no proof that they will close but neither does anyone claiming they are safe. Punter BEWARE IMO.

Why I am annoyed and will not deposit is that I dont ever want "wagering requirements"

Some of my Pinnacle deposits get rolled over 30-50 times, some bust out, and occasionally I need to withdraw immediately after depositing due to a big win.

I just cant risk depositing £10K, hitting a £30K win and not being able to withdraw at least £20K of that immediately.

Originally Posted by Bill Dozer

Its the guy looking at Oddschecker's 100 books who never keeps a balance anywhere and always pulls his chunk back after the bet so he has it ready to deposit somewhere else in case his next hit isn't at Pinnacle.

That sounds like the description of a somewhat sharp bettor who will always shop for the best price but has a small bankroll and has to withdraw all the time. I think even pinnacle encouraged bettors in their articles to shop for the best price.

Now they are basically trying to either force out the bettors that need to constantly withdraw, or convince them to "be loyal" to pinnaclesports even if that means betting at worse odds than available elsewhere.

I can understand the need to do this though, if it's about the commissions they pay to third parties involved in deposits and withdrawals. I just hope this is the actual reason for this new policy, and not something else.

This does not affect arbors because the money is rolled over very very quickly

Hey if you're a big better you'll pay the early withdrawal fee

Originally Posted by frog2

So a round trip of a deposit/withdraw is around 4%. Their overrounds are around 2-3% so their actual profit margin is probably 0.75%-1.4% (when you take into account the sharps) and you guys object to having to turn your money over 5 times to get a 'free' withdraw.

They have a negative profit expectation on the money you deposit unless you bet it several times. Even at 5 times they probably only expect to break even. Under the old system if more and more people start moving money on a daily basis the transaction costs will exceed their betting margin.

They either have to charge for withdrawing money, insist on a rollover (to give them a fair chance of breaking even), increase their margins (worse odds for everyone) or close the business.

probably the best post on the issue if the numbers are right

If they didn't absorb Skrill's fees on deposits, so they appear free to the player, there would be a lot more pressure on the money transfer services to sharpen their pens.

Not that I'm suggesting fees on deposits. But there is a catch22 there that helps to keep the fees high.

What is their fee for sending money out. It shouldnt be more than euro. As skrill vip your outgoing fees are limited to 1e.

Originally Posted by dealer wins

Why I am annoyed and will not deposit is that I dont ever want "wagering requirements"

Some of my Pinnacle deposits get rolled over 30-50 times, some bust out, and occasionally I need to withdraw immediately after depositing due to a big win.

I just cant risk depositing £10K, hitting a £30K win and not being able to withdraw at least £20K of that immediately.

They have said that you can pull the winnings without having to pay the 3%. If you put 10k in and hit 30k, then 30k is able to be pulled you just have to leave the 10k in to complete the rollover.

The only other solution I would suggest would be a points based system on your longer term action rather than deposit to deposit.

Originally Posted by frog2

The only other solution I would suggest would be a points based system on your longer term action rather than deposit to deposit.

Great Idea.

Going to try and work it out.

Originally Posted by frog2

The only other solution I would suggest would be a points based system on your longer term action rather than deposit to deposit.

Ok let me know if there are any holes in this.

Per Dollar Deposited -1Pt
Per Dollar Wagered +1Pt
Per Dollar Paid Out -4Pts

-Rule 30 only applies if payout will send customers point balance into the negative.
-Negative Pt Balances Reset to Zero when Accounts Balance hits Zero.
-Positive Point Balances Never Reset

For the long term players who sometimes rollover their deposit 30-40 times they will be able to build point balances and if they choose to pull after a 1 time rollover on a future deposit will still be able to do so.

For the guys who lose right off the bat your point balance will reset to zero and on your next deposit your dealing with the same terms you are now.

For the guy who hits the lucky parlay or future. 100/50000. Rule 30 states you have to roll the depo 5 times so if it was 100 bucks its only 500 in action. The payout of the 50000 will send you into a negative point balance but if you completed the rollover your fine anyways. Before depositing again make sure to zero account so pt balance zeros as well.


Keeps the longterm guys happy, and should only affect those who are in and out on a constant basis.

Originally Posted by frog2

So a round trip of a deposit/withdraw is around 4%. Their overrounds are around 2-3% so their actual profit margin is probably 0.75%-1.4% (when you take into account the sharps) and you guys object to having to turn your money over 5 times to get a 'free' withdraw.

They have a negative profit expectation on the money you deposit unless you bet it several times. Even at 5 times they probably only expect to break even. Under the old system if more and more people start moving money on a daily basis the transaction costs will exceed their betting margin.

They either have to charge for withdrawing money, insist on a rollover (to give them a fair chance of breaking even), increase their margins (worse odds for everyone) or close the business.

Hi There!

Please let me know how you got 4% for deposit/withdrawal. Lets prove it. I like pinnacle much but I can prove you it is 2,3% fee - one of the lowest in the industry for deposit via Neteller and 2,8% for deposit via Skrill.
There is no cost for processing withdrawal according to my source.

Thanks for your clarification.

5 times roll over is unreasonable.

Sounds reasonable dirtdog52658. The only issue I suppose is the complexity. Betfair started its decline when the charging structure got too complex. Having said the structure you suggest is not particularly complex if that is the end of. Betfair added layer upon layer of charges that caused it to reach a situation where even their own employees struggle to explain it.

Bigcash, my 4% figure comes from what was stated by another writer above. If the figure is 2.3%/2.8% then things could be adjusted slightly. But even your lower end 2.3% figure is going to result in an expected loss for Pinnacle if people just deposit and take out cash.