Betfair - Increasing rates

Originally Posted by tommygun

Hareeba how do you rate Matchbook?

I really do like Matchbook.
More often than not I can find odds (net of effectively 2% commission) for US sports which are superior to those offered by Pinnacle.
Depends on your staking levels at times though as liquidity can be an issue well before game times. Mostly though for my moderate levels it's fine.
Unfortunately they don't have as many markets as their opposition though and despite forever promising to become real competitors with Betfair they have a mighty long way to go in that regard. Progress seems remarkably slow.
Just one example is no first half markets in NBA.
On the plus side they have zero commission this season on all soccer markets which seems to have significantly boosted liquidity.
But for other markets which I've been looking at recently, e.g. golf liquidity isn't great and you have far more chance of getting matched at Betfair.

I don't think it's worth it for matchbook to add more mickey mouse markets that would get low volumes matched

I like them the way they are now.

allin correct

Betfair has many mickey mouse markets that get little volume

a waste

This Hareeba knows his books

Originally Posted by Hareeba!

. In nobody's language could I possibly be described as a "mighty big high roller" so something's not quite right about the calculations you're doing to come up with those numbers.

Well, I'm not making the numbers up. They come from Betfair's terms and conditions easily found on their website. My calculations were rough -- but well within the ballpark. If I missed something, I am open to correction. It doesn't matter which country you live in (or which currency you bet in) you earn 1 Betfair point for each 10 pence (£0.10) you paid in commission from your winnings (or implied commission if you have net losses). In order to earn the top reduction you must earn and then maintain 150,000 points (with a 15% weekly point decay). Therefore you would need to generate £15,000 in commission to receive the top reduction. I quickly doubled that to $30,000CDN (it's actually $27,775CDN, so I upped it a bit for dramatic effect).

Originally Posted by TFC

Well, I'm not making the numbers up. They come from Betfair's terms and conditions easily found on their website. My calculations were rough -- but well within the ballpark. If I missed something, I am open to correction. It doesn't matter which country you live in (or which currency you bet in) you earn 1 Betfair point for each 10 pence (£0.10) you paid in commission from your winnings (or implied commission if you have net losses). In order to earn the top reduction you must earn and then maintain 150,000 points (with a 15% weekly point decay). Therefore you would need to generate £15,000 in commission to receive the top reduction. I quickly doubled that to $30,000CDN (it's actually $27,775CDN, so I upped it a bit for dramatic effect).

Well you seem to be well on top of the figures so please tell me what commission you believe I need to be paying each week to maintain my discount at 40% to have me paying 3% commission.

Originally Posted by allin1

so why are betfair so greedy with commission and premium charge? could it be because of their market makers?

They are a publically traded company who need to please their stakeholders on a quarterly basis. So, like many publicly traded companies these days they are solely focused on generating short term profits to the detriment of the long term viability. The current CEO will be long gone and sitting pretty when the chickens come home to roost. Also, not to be ignored, they operate a virtual monopoly -- so they can get away with it. And, unfortunately, instead of championing competition some punters are practically begging Betfair for even more abuse.

As I understand it, Betfair is losing or has already lost many market makers. Once they earn $250,000 and have to pay the dreaded Premium Charge it is no longer a viable risk - considering the reward - for those high-rollers. Their money can be better invested elsewhere at much less risk.

You all forget something! At betfair if you are simply betting either pregame or live, and not trading, you are charged with comission only IF YOU WIN! so assuming 95% of bettors hit 50/50 their bets or 55/45 they will pay only at HALF bets comission, on rest they wont be charged. What does this mean? This mean that you pay comission on HALF of your volume or thats the same - your comission in avarage is just HALF of your personal comission! Point.
In other words if you're set to pay 5% comission this is in avarage 2.5, if you pay 3% this is actually 1.5%. So Pinnacle can go and f. themself with their lies.


P.S. If you found that post usefull send some points here

What is the difference between trading and betting live? What is "poms" or "Pom"

Originally Posted by timbaland99

What is the difference between trading and betting live? What is "poms" or "Pom"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alterna...or_the_British

Originally Posted by Hareeba!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alterna...or_the_British

Thanks buddy.

It seems to me the difference as far as laying juice between matchbook, pinnacle and betfair is all very minuscule. Well its what I think from reading these great posts here.

Originally Posted by Hareeba!

I really do like Matchbook.
More often than not I can find odds (net of effectively 2% commission) for US sports which are superior to those offered by Pinnacle.
Depends on your staking levels at times though as liquidity can be an issue well before game times. Mostly though for my moderate levels it's fine.
Unfortunately they don't have as many markets as their opposition though and despite forever promising to become real competitors with Betfair they have a mighty long way to go in that regard. Progress seems remarkably slow.
Just one example is no first half markets in NBA.
On the plus side they have zero commission this season on all soccer markets which seems to have significantly boosted liquidity.
But for other markets which I've been looking at recently, e.g. golf liquidity isn't great and you have far more chance of getting matched at Betfair.

Thanks Hareeba, I had a quick look at matchbook last night at the Nottingham Forest v Watford match and liquidity looked pretty good to me. That was all I looked at though. Not sure whether it's useful for me to have an account there.

Originally Posted by TFC

Well, I'm not making the numbers up. They come from Betfair's terms and conditions easily found on their website. My calculations were rough -- but well within the ballpark. If I missed something, I am open to correction. It doesn't matter which country you live in (or which currency you bet in) you earn 1 Betfair point for each 10 pence (£0.10) you paid in commission from your winnings (or implied commission if you have net losses). In order to earn the top reduction you must earn and then maintain 150,000 points (with a 15% weekly point decay). Therefore you would need to generate £15,000 in commission to receive the top reduction. I quickly doubled that to $30,000CDN (it's actually $27,775CDN, so I upped it a bit for dramatic effect).

Well, I really don't need to do the arithmetic to know the facts. I can simply look at my betting database to get it right.

I don't need to maintain (and never have had anything close to 150,000 points) yet I've been on or about 3% commission (40% discount) for a couple of years now. Maintaining a points balance of 49,000 is all that's required to do that.

In terms of commissions paid, last year, allowing for 4 weeks when I was overseas and didn't bet, I averaged $680 per week in commissions. That's long long long way short of your calculated $30K!

hareeba are you a scalper/arber/trader or would you call yourself a handicapper?

you can answer in pm if you don't want to make it public.

Originally Posted by allin1

hareeba are you a scalper/arber/trader or would you call yourself a handicapper?

you can answer in pm if you don't want to make it public.

certainly not an arber or trader

so I s'pose that qualifies me as a handicapper?