but those prices at betfair are available for less than 1k while at pinny you can bet 50k in one shot. If you want to bet 50k at betfair now on the superbowl in one go, you'll end up getting an average price equal or lower than what pinny is offering.Originally Posted by Hareeba!
Just took another look at the Superbowl MLs:
Pinnacle: Seattle 2.09, Denver 1.8475
Betfair (at 3% comm.) 2.1058 and 1.8509 respectively
Matchbook has better prices than betfair on this market and higher volume offered
big volume betting in cricket.
Look at the difference in Premier League soccer payouts between leading bookmakers and Pinnacle Sports:
http://allin1.mysbrforum.com/photos/l/wky1m2M9.jpg
Sure there isn't $50k in liquidity but how many of us bet in those sort of numbers. There was actually a lot more than $1k available earlier. It does fluctuate. Also there is a Superbowl winner market as well as a game market. And one feature of an exchange which Pinnacle can't match is to ask for a better price. I get many bets matched that way.but those prices at betfair are available for less than 1k while at pinny you can bet 50k in one shot. If you want to bet 50k at betfair now on the superbowl in one go, you'll end up getting an average price equal or lower than what pinny is offering.
Matchbook has better prices than betfair on this market and higher volume offered
Anyway, the point of my post was to try and negate the endless crap that gets posted about Betfair not being able to match Pinnacle's odds. Anyone who doesn't have accounts with both is costing themselves.
And yes, Matchbook may be even better due to lower commissions. You really should have accounts at all three.
Things like this always remind me of "lies, damned lies and statistics"Look at the difference in Premier League soccer payouts between leading bookmakers and Pinnacle Sports:
http://hareeba.mysbrforum.com/photos/l/uxusumY8.jpg
In the Betfair comparison I reckon they would be using a standard 5% commission? Not everyone, including myself, pays that. And on Asian handicaps the commission is only 0.75%.
I always compare odds before betting and the fact that I place at least as much on soccer at Betfair as I do at Pinnacle is a more convincing statistic for me.
Pinnacle is a damn fine book but not up to the level of betfair.
Besides on betfair you can lay.
Most of the big volume matched at betfair is because of traders.
Straight bettors (and sharp people are usually straight bettors, they do not hedge, they do not scalp), will rather go for high limits, no comissions, no premium charge.
The fact is that pinnacle gets more action in volume than any other shop on earth and that happens because of a good reason, considering they do not even invest in advertising like betfair and others do.
The fact that betfair is lately focusing more on attracting square action tells you everything you need to know about them. Their exchange is what it is because of traders.
Matchbook on the other hand can become a real competitor for pinny if their available volume increases.
They need more than just volume increases.Matchbook on the other hand can become a real competitor for pinny if their available volume increases.
A heap more markets and faster/more reliable software would be reasonable start.
But I guess if they attend to that the volume increases will come.
Seems to me that they are extraordinarily slow in getting to where they promised to be heading after the change in ownership.
Matchbook and Pinnacle are heavy scalp volume books which is not a bad thing actually, still makes the lines very accurate.
And just to be fair (and on topic): after 6.5% commission Betfair's price is Seattle 2.05 & Denver 1.82 .Just took another look at the Superbowl MLs:
Pinnacle: Seattle 2.09, Denver 1.8475
Betfair (at 3% comm.) 2.1058 and 1.8509 respectively
Yes, it was once possible to reduce your commission at Betfair to as low as 2% (I was at a reduced rate for a very long time myself) -- but it is not possible anymore for most of us. A few months ago Betfair increased the requirements for earning point reductions substantially (at least for most non-Brits or Irish - not sure about Australia). For example, you now need to earn 7,000 points instead of 1,000 points to see your first reduction. For that reason, the premium charge and other reasons, many of us have moved all of or some of our money and action to Betdaq, Matchbook, Pinnacle and elsewhere - necessarily, further reducing any possibility of earning the commission reduction.
Hareeba, I realize you are a big Betfair fan and obviously a heavy player, but I think quoting odds at 3% commission is a bit disingenuous of you. Unless, that is, you honestly believe the average SBR reader is really going to earn and then maintain 150,000 Betfair points a week - which is the new requirement to maintain 3% for most of us outside the UK and Ireland. For those of you unfamiliar with Betfair's point system that would essentially mean generating roughly $30,000CDN COMMISSION from your bets and maintaining that level of betting on a weekly basis* (note: that is not $30,000 worth of winning bets per week but $30,000 comission from those bets!). I'm pretty sure not even Betfair's own marketing department would try selling us that one.
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*For the sake of simplicity (and, perhaps, to sway the argument towards my side), yes, I have ignored Betfair's rules about 15% weekly point decay and using possible "point holidays" to maintain your balance. The central point stands: you have to be one mighty big high roller nowadays to reach and then maintain 3% commission at Betfair. The actual rules and regulations can be found on their site for those interested in the nitty gritty.
Last edited by TFC; 01-30-14 at 11:43 AM. Reason: typo
so why are betfair so greedy with commission and premium charge? could it be because of their market makers?
how active are market makers?
I don't knowhow active are market makers?
bettingpromotion seems to be involved but I don't know to what extent
I most certainly wasn't intending to be "disingenuous". That's why I deliberately disclosed that I was basing the comparison on 3% which is what my current rate has been hovering around for quite some time. Less "disingenuous" than Pinnacle quoting comparisons whilst failing to disclose the commission they have based it on.And just to be fair (and on topic): after 6.5% commission Betfair's price is Seattle 2.05 & Denver 1.82 .
Yes, it was once possible to reduce your commission at Betfair to as low as 2% (I was at a reduced rate for a very long time myself) -- but it is not possible anymore for most of us. A few months ago Betfair increased the requirements for earning point reductions substantially (at least for most non-Brits or Irish - not sure about Australia). For example, you now need to earn 7,000 points instead of 1,000 points to see your first reduction. For that reason, the premium charge and other reasons, many of us have moved all of or some of our money and action to Betdaq, Matchbook, Pinnacle and elsewhere - necessarily, further reducing any possibility of earning the commission reduction.
Hareeba, I realize you are a big Betfair fan and obviously a heavy player, but I think quoting odds at 3% commission is a bit disingenuous of you. Unless, that is, you honestly believe the average SBR reader is really going to earn and then maintain 150,000 Betfair points a week - which is the new requirement to maintain 3% for most of us outside the UK and Ireland. For those of you unfamiliar with Betfair's point system that would essentially mean generating roughly $30,000CDN COMMISSION from your bets and maintaining that level of betting on a weekly basis* (note: that is not $30,000 worth of winning bets per week but $30,000 comission from those bets!). I'm pretty sure not even Betfair's own marketing department would try selling us that one.
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*For the sake of simplicity (and, perhaps, to sway the argument towards my side), yes, I have ignored Betfair's rules about 15% weekly point decay and using possible "point holidays" to maintain your balance. The central point stands: you have to be one mighty big high roller nowadays to reach and then maintain 3% commission at Betfair. The actual rules and regulations can be found on their site for those interested in the nitty gritty.
Of course those paying full commission (5% or 6.5%) will probably find that Pinnacle's odds are better, at least on the market I referred to. But to ignore the fact that regular users do pay less commission is disingenuous. And when it comes to soccer Asian handicaps EVERY user pays just 0.75% (unless they are one of the minority being slugged with the premium charge).
As to the ability to get commission discounts I confess to not knowing how much harder that is in other jurisdictions. I am not aware that it has been made any harder to earn and maintain the discounts in Australia at least. I certainly haven't noticed that and most certainly am not paying commissions anywhere within cooee of the numbers you've mentioned. In nobody's language could I possibly be described as a "mighty big high roller" so something's not quite right about the calculations you're doing to come up with those numbers.
You're right, I am a Betfair fan. And that's because every day I find that they do have the best odds (net of commission) on some of the stuff I'm betting on. I'm also a big fan of Pinnacle and of Matchbook and SBO for the same reason.
Hareeba how do you rate Matchbook?
