NFL rules question? 20 points for proving your answer

On the packers first touchdown:

Aaron Rodgers was ruled to not have possession of the ball, then the motion of his arm batted the ball forward. Shouldn't the ball be ruled dead as soon as it is recovered by Green Bay?

Read all of section 8 of the rulebook regarding passes, fumbles, etc. and didn't see anything about an unintentionally batted ball on a down besides 4th. If anyone can find the actual ruling,
I'll toss you 20 points.. Maybe more if I like you.

Only difference between that and a muffed fumble recovery is that it didn't hit the ground first. Don't know of any precedent though.

Originally Posted by tto827

Shouldn't the ball be ruled dead as soon as it is recovered by Green Bay?

No...it was Aaron Rodgers and Green Bay. Touchdown Packers

no because it was a fumble. he was not in passing motion when ball got loose. it was a live ball.

Defensive player caused a fumble before Rodgers' arm started coming forward. A fumble everyday of the week.

I believe it's under illegal use of hands, there's a qualifier.

A player may not bat or punch:

(a) A loose ball (in field of play) toward his opponent’s goal line or in any direction in either end zone.

(b) A ball in player possession.

Note: If there is any question as to whether a defender is stripping or batting a ball in player possession, the official(s) will rule the action as a legal act (stripping the ball).

http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/useofhands

Originally Posted by tto827

On the packers first touchdown:

Aaron Rodgers was ruled to not have possession of the ball, then the motion of his arm batted the ball forward. Shouldn't the ball be ruled dead as soon as it is recovered by Green Bay?

Read all of section 8 of the rulebook regarding passes, fumbles, etc. and didn't see anything about an unintentionally batted ball on a down besides 4th. If anyone can find the actual ruling,
I'll toss you 20 points.. Maybe more if I like you.

Im not sure not sure what rule you are looking for. A fumble can be recovered and advanced by a player from either except on 4th down or inside of two minutes

1. A fumble may be advanced by any player on either team regardless of whether recovered before or after ball hits the ground.
2. A fumble that goes forward and out of bounds will return to the fumbling team at the spot of the fumble unless the ball goes out of bounds in the opponent’s end zone. In this case, it is a touchback.
3. On a play from scrimmage, if an offensive player fumbles anywhere on the field during fourth down, only the fumbling player is permitted to recover and/or advance the ball. If any player fumbles after the two-minute warning in a half, only the fumbling player is permitted to recover and/or advance the ball. If recovered by any other offensive player, the ball is dead at the spot of the fumble unless it is recovered behind the spot of the fumble. In that case, the ball is dead at the spot of recovery. Any defensive player may recover and/or advance any fumble at any time.

I'm looking for an inadvertent batting of the ball in the forward direction on a down besides 4th.

It was an obvious fumble. It was not a pass. The ball can be advanced since it wasn't 4th down and not inside of 2 minutes.




I guess what you are looking for is someone to saythat it wasn't a fumble

No. I agree 100% it was a fumble.

I'm questioning if the packers should be allowed to advance the ball upon recovery.

It was batted (granted inadvertently) forward by a Green Bay player. The fact that Aaron pushed the ball forward then his team recovered and advanced it is what I'm questioning.

Imagine this scenario:

There's a fumble, in the act of recovering it, a player knocks the ball forward towards a teammate, regardless of intent, it is not allowed, so I'm wondering why this situation is different?

Or maybe I'm wrong, and if it's an inadvertent bat, it's not a penalty... That's basically what I was looking for.

Originally Posted by tto827

No. I agree 100% it was a fumble.

I'm questioning if the packers should be allowed to advance the ball upon recovery.

It was batted (granted inadvertently) forward by a Green Bay player. The fact that Aaron pushed the ball forward then his team recovered and advanced it is what I'm questioning.

Imagine this scenario:

There's a fumble, in the act of recovering it, a player knocks the ball forward towards a teammate, regardless of intent, it is not allowed, so I'm wondering why this situation is different?

Or maybe I'm wrong, and if it's an inadvertent bat, it's not a penalty... That's basically what I was looking for.

I think it is allowed, as long as it's not 4th down and inside of 2 minutes. IMO this is a rule that needs to be changed. It's lucky enough to recover it, shouldn't get benefit of extra yards going forward. Should go back where it's fumbled. But that's not the rule now.

Illegal Bat Article 8 A player may not bat or punch:
(a) a loose ball (in field of play) toward opponent’s goal line;
(b) a loose ball (that has touched the ground) in any direction, if it is in either end zone;
(c) a backward pass in flight may not be batted forward by an offensive player.
Exception: A forward pass in flight may be tipped, batted, or deflected in any direction by any eligible player at
any time.
Note: If a forward pass that is controlled by an airborne player prior to completing the catch is thrown forward, it
is an illegal bat. If it is caught by a teammate or intercepted by an opponent, the ball remains alive. If it is
not caught, the ball is dead when it hits the ground.
Penalty: For illegal batting or punching the ball: Loss of 10 yards. For enforcement, treat as a foul
during a backward pass or fumble (see 8-7-7).
I

I think you are right. The way the rule reads, Rodgers certainly batted the ball towards the opponent's end.

Originally Posted by slacker00

I think you are right. The way the rule reads, Rodgers certainly batted the ball towards the opponent's end.

Didn't he bat it toward his own team's goal line? But why would a player want to be toward opponent's goal line? I don't get that rule. Never mind, I get it....

Also, what is a 'bat' or 'punch'. Is that defined somewhere? Obviously he didn't do it intentionally, just his arm was going forward so it naturally happened.

Hold on, I found something contrary in the definitions section:

BAT OR PUNCH (g) A Bat or Punch is the intentional striking of the ball with hand, fist, elbow, or forearm. See 12-4-1.
P

So, the key word is "intention". If Rodgers striking of the ball was unintentional, it isn't a bat.

But now I'm looking at the definition of a forward pass. Didn't the ball initially move forward after leaving his hands?

Rule 8 Forward Pass, Backward Pass, Fumble
Section 1 Forward Pass
DEFINITION
Article 1 Definition
It is a forward pass if:
(a) the ball initially moves forward (to a point ne
arer the opponent’s goal line) after leaving the passe
r’s
hand(s);