as I've said before i just enjoy the process and basically cannot change that.. if you were to just stick to WP bets at the big tracks I believe it's 16-17% take out.. it'll never be 10 for most players with a rebate but I would guess a reasonable volume (but still high) might get you to 13-14%..i think at that point you might just accept takes a little higher than contest play and stick to simple WP bets.. jmo and others may feel differently.. got no skin in the game but of course like to pick well over time