Calvin did not help ROC chances today. If he wasn't so keen on his rail-skimming rides and sent ROC outside 10 seconds earlier, he could have hit board. He stormed home once outside.Originally Posted by mikemca
because he is a anchor anywhere but Churchill Downs
jk I dunno
Your lean toward GenArod was wise regardless of outcome, better price, better pedigree for this and you knew WildRed was an easy toss after hideous works. Aneed the lead type horse toiling on CD track a few days before big race = not good.you don't think danza carrying 8 more pounds vs last race just 3 weeks ago wont affect him?
im pretty green at this but I seen danza tiring bigtime from the extra weight. Rest of the field has been carrying 122-124 regularly
I know you are big on Wildcat Red but seems GenArod has been within a head with WR the last 3 Head to head races....seem interchangeable horses
Calvin did not help ROC chances today. If he wasn't so keen on his rail-skimming rides and sent ROC outside 10 seconds earlier, he could have hit board. He stormed home once outside.
Need to watch the race some more but there were several hidden good efforts.
I think if anything this race went to show that all the workout hype by drf and others isn't too important.The top two supposedly looked bad while all the hype on Medal Count and Intense Holiday was just that.Your lean toward GenArod was wise regardless of outcome, better price, better pedigree for this and you knew WildRed was an easy toss after hideous works. Aneed the lead type horse toiling on CD track a few days before big race = not good.
hear there was a stong head wind in the stretch so the times are not as good in the KD as they would have been without the strong wind, also the performace was fairly strong
hear there was a stong head wind in the stretch so the times are not as good in the KD as they would have been without the strong wind, also the performace was fairly strong
I was on the backside yesterday, and this is true. There was a 20-25 mph headwind in the stretch all day.
it also looked to me like when he was asked to go he went then when Espinoza looked back seen no one challenging he rode out with plenty in tank for preakness.
You are so right, he went from post 19 to rail and top of stretch he went from rail back to post 19, and he ran into about 5-6 horses in the back, and the 3 at top of strectch, that made him swing wide, he should of raced on the outside the entire, way,..he would have finished 3-4calvin did not help roc chances today. If he wasn't so keen on his rail-skimming rides and sent roc outside 10 seconds earlier, he could have hit board. He stormed home once outside.
Right, Welch was skeptical on CalC but other clockers thought he was okay, can't remember what I heard about CommCurv now. But I do use workouts as a tool for TC races, these are developing 3yo that improve in leaps or level off/regress. WildRed, was not using him any way but his very slow workout made him an easy toss in my book for example. The best working horses don't always get it done but you'd rather have your horses acting like they are coming up for a big effort. FWIW, I thought the best 3 lookers in post parade (but none were standouts) were Dance With Fate, Tapiture and Intense Holiday and they didn't fare too well.Need to watch the race some more but there were several hidden good efforts.
I think if anything this race went to show that all the workout hype by drf and others isn't too important.The top two supposedly looked bad while all the hype on Medal Count and Intense Holiday was just that.
Not hating on Calvin now but if he just left the horse out in middle figuring best path entering stretch he may have been in the exacta. Now wondering if they change riders for Prkns? Calivn on half the time but others ride him also.You are so right, he went from post 19 to rail and top of stretch he went from rail back to post 19, and he ran into about 5-6 horses in the back, and the 3 at top of strectch, that made him swing wide, he should of raced on the outside the entire, way,..he would have finished 3-4
Wildcat Red wasn't getting the distance bad workout or not.Even when CD is playing speed friendly it is much more demanding than GP.
I saw quite a few people liking Curve beforehand but it was because of his figs and past races.
I agree about workouts and get work reports pretty often but I had this conversation before the derby on another board.It's like people handicap one way 364 days a year and then on derby day they throw everything out the window and go by who clockers say looks good.
A horse working phenomenal at 5 or 6 furlongs doesn't tell you anything about going 10f.It just tells you they are in good health.I find the reports are great for maiden races otherwise they are a small part of the equation.
This will favor the horses towards the lead and hinder the deep closers. Vice versa when it blows the other way when that strong.I was on the backside yesterday, and this is true. There was a 20-25 mph headwind in the stretch all day.
The 48 and 112 fractions at Gulfstream in the Fla. derby had me wondering about how hot the pace would be. No wonder they ran 1,2,3 gate to wire. They could have gone around again after that. I caved to the hype. Stupid me.Wildcat Red wasn't getting the distance bad workout or not.Even when CD is playing speed friendly it is much more demanding than GP.
I saw quite a few people liking Curve beforehand but it was because of his figs and past races.
I agree about workouts and get work reports pretty often but I had this conversation before the derby on another board.It's like people handicap one way 364 days a year and then on derby day they throw everything out the window and go by who clockers say looks good.
A horse working phenomenal at 5 or 6 furlongs doesn't tell you anything about going 10f.It just tells you they are in good health.I find the reports are great for maiden races otherwise they are a small part of the equation.
It means something when they really seem to be blossoming at the right time when it comes to the Derby but I agree Mike, a lot of people put WAY too much in to what clockers say. If I had booked every bet they made during my time at the track, I never would have left. Don't get me wrong, some really get it but most don't and how can anyone say how well or poorly a horse looks unless they have seen that horse work 20 times at least over the last year. The only way you would truly know is if you had something to compare to. It's hype most of the time and yes, nobody considers that stuff the rest of the year. And right again, a horse working in front of an empty grandstand in the AM has no bearing on how they will run twice as far with a packed house and all the noise that comes with it, in the PM. Great for firsters as you said.
Str , i really know nothing about clockers, but explain it to me, when the horses work out in the morning arent the times reported, or is it an unofficial workout that your out there with your horse and guys are just watching the horses,, when you do those types of works, does the general public clockers always know who the horse is, do they have any colors on, to tell , how would you get a true read, there is no traffic, ,how can one tell other than the jock and trainer ,the 48 and 112 fractions at gulfstream in the fla. Derby had me wondering about how hot the pace would be. No wonder they ran 1,2,3 gate to wire. They could have gone around again after that. I caved to the hype. Stupid me.
It means something when they really seem to be blossoming at the right time when it comes to the derby but i agree mike, a lot of people put way too much in to what clockers say. If i had booked every bet they made during my time at the track, i never would have left. Don't get me wrong, some really get it but most don't and how can anyone say how well or poorly a horse looks unless they have seen that horse work 20 times at least over the last year. The only way you would truly know is if you had something to compare to. It's hype most of the time and yes, nobody considers that stuff the rest of the year. And right again, a horse working in front of an empty grandstand in the am has no bearing on how they will run twice as far with a packed house and all the noise that comes with it, in the pm. Great for firsters as you said.
The clockers know each trainers saddle towel colors as well as their riders that work for them. They see them every day. If they are not sure who a horse is, they will call the trainer and ask them. They can verify who the trainer said the horse was by writing down the horses markings , like a white left hind leg and things like that and checking the foal papers in the racing office. No horse is allowed on the grounds without papers with all markings so they can be identified. If you lie to them, ok, you get by them once or twice, but when you get caught, and you will, you are screwed as they will report it to the Stewards. So, you can't lie. You would have to be an idiot. They work for and are paid by the DRF and it is their job to report works for the public. They are there from 6AM(5;30 in the summer)when the track opens, and they stay until it closes for training , usually at 10AM, everyday. Nothing gets by them.Str , i really know nothing about clockers, but explain it to me, when the horses work out in the morning arent the times reported, or is it an unofficial workout that your out there with your horse and guys are just watching the horses,, when you do those types of works, does the general public clockers always know who the horse is, do they have any colors on, to tell , how would you get a true read, there is no traffic, ,how can one tell other than the jock and trainer ,
YEA BUT DONT THEY HAVE TO REPORT ALL WORKOUT ANY TO THE DRF. WHATS THE BIG ADVANTAGE.
YOU MADE ME THINK OF A MOVIE, ITS A BLACK AND WHITE, BEST HORSE RACING MOVIE I EVER SEEN, YOU HAVE TO SEE, THE HORSE IN THE MOVIE IS CALLED WHITE CARGO...DO YOU KNOW THE MOVIE.....I THINK PECK IS IN IT
http://www.tcm.com/this-month/articl...ts-Malone.html
The clockers know each trainers saddle towel colors as well as their riders that work for them. They see them every day. If they are not sure who a horse is, they will call the trainer and ask them. They can verify who the trainer said the horse was by writing down the horses markings , like a white left hind leg and things like that and checking the foal papers in the racing office. No horse is allowed on the grounds without papers with all markings so they can be identified. If you lie to them, ok, you get by them once or twice, but when you get caught, and you will, you are screwed as they will report it to the Stewards. So, you can't lie. You would have to be an idiot. They work for and are paid by the DRF and it is their job to report works for the public. They are there from 6AM(5;30 in the summer)when the track opens, and they stay until it closes for training , usually at 10AM, everyday. Nothing gets by them.
