[Mudcat]

Sorry if it seems like I'm trying to create drama but I thought some SBR people might care about this, at least a little bit. More to the point, I am getting cranky about this and want to get it off my chest. Anyway I'll tell you the deal. Kindly don't stick this post at the end of some old thread. This is a new topic.

I talk to many players all the time. It is almost as much a part of my life as breathing. As I have reported on this forum, a couple players I talk to are getting slow-payed by Wager Web. This has passed the 7 weeks mark.

(At this point, I'll take a moment to save robmpink the trouble and report that everything with WW is fine for him and he would definitely not discourage anyone from sending them money.)

Anyway, a couple weeks ago I asked one of the players being slow-payed why he doesn't file a complaint with SBR. I'll paraphrase his answer (and clean it up considerably):

"I don't trust those SBR fellows. I perceive that they are in cahoots with WagerWeb. They must have a sheet there and a financial interest in having deposits continue as much as possible."

Okay. That sort of thing generally just makes me roll my eyes. I don't even know why. The idea of a sheet is not that far-fetched. But I guess it's because I used to be a mod here and no one ever tried to influence anything I said about anything. That doesn't prove anything and maybe I'm naive but I don't go for the conspiracy theory.

BUT you know what? After some discussion of the evidence, I may not totally agree with his conclusion but I get where he is coming from.

And my experience since then only amplifies it.

He linked me to some posts from when WW was taking all those free shots at players and trying to cheat players and confiscate balances. There was some pretty eye-opening examples of SBR people acknowledging serious WW nonsense and all the SBR people do is say, "Yeah, wow, that's a shame," and then shrug it off.

SBRs main Wager Web investigator has openly and repeatedly acknowledged they have lies on their website (about payout methods) which are significantly impactful to players. Call it fraud, bait-and-switch, whatever - it's inarguably a bad thing for a sportsbook to be doing. SBR's reaction? Basically, "Yeah that's not very good, is it?"

But nothing happens.

I have also tried to post important updates about this ongoing slow-pay situation on this forum only to have SBR bury the info. Like when WW shut down their payout department for three days midweek a couple weeks back. It was new information that was relevant and timely. You guys buried it at the end of some old thread. (Bill did come along and touch on the subject later - using the words scam and clowns as I recall - and that thread was allowed to stay anyway.)

We can have 6 separate threads going about Sportsbook.com but new info on the WagerWeb slow-pays has to be buried at the end of long, old threads.

Has anyone from SBR even tried calling WagerWeb yet to ask if they are slow-paying? It's such a simple measure with no downside. They either confirm, deny or weasel - no one is worse off and in any of those three cases, something can be learned. Sorry if someone finally did that and I missed it, but when I suggested it all I got was resistance and continued casting of doubts on the credibility of my posts. I mean, I get that you'd prefer to have a complaint dropped in your lap but you can't even lift a finger otherwise?

It does give a perception of cahoots.

There have been bulletins on the SBR home page with headlines like wagerweb (SBR rating C) cheating sharp players

Cheating! That's SBR's chosen word. Cheating! SBR knows and acknowledges they are cheating.

Does the rating change? Not since December. Everything I am describing has happened since then.

Thus the perception of cahoots.

For the record, I don't believe SBR is in bed with Wager Web. I believe this is more a case of . . . I don't even know what. I'd like to say it's just a difference of opinion and SBR is on top of the situation but just not moving fast enough for some people's tastes - that happens all the time - but this feels more like, well, not being on top of it.

But at least WW's cheating is being reported. That's something. It's not like SBR is denying the transgressions that have been pointed out. At least they say, "Yeah that kinda sucks," before moving past it.

Anyway, I am a player and I feel the frustration of players. I have been slow-payed by weasels and it is a horrible feeling. So I have empathy.

Other than that, I don't know what to say. I feel like such a bad guy for trying to get this information to players.

[St.Aquinas]

The Mud Cat Song
Mud cat, oh-mud cat singing away
sing us a song about Wagerwebs ways
Use generalizations and vague accusations
so that all of us SBR members can be safe

Mud cat, oh-mud cat still singing away
I think a guitar string snapped in your brain
Silence will help ease your sad Mud Cat blues
and we can bet without listening to your poo

Lol.

Just having some fun Mudcat, I see you’re a songwriter/performer, and you know…it’s a disease I have that requires me to jest when individuals blast other individuals with ambiguous crude.

[Mudcat]

In a pleasant, interesting twist, as I was composing that, I received an e-mail that one of the players being slow-payed received the last of their payout.

It took 7 weeks, 3 days from the original request. Now it's just a matter of waiting to see if the cheque will clear but I suppose for the purposes of this discussion, we can stop the clock at 7 weeks, 3 days.

Apparently some proof will become available that will confirm I haven't been lying like a disgusting rug this whole time. I don't know what form that proof will take.

Suffice to say, everything I have said is 100% accurate. WagerWeb is currently taking the better part of 2 months to payout. Hopefully this will generate a response from SBR beyond, "Gosh! Bummer!"

[St.Aquinas]

At least your a good sport Mudcat!

[robmpink]

Sorry if it seems like I'm trying to create drama but I thought some SBR people might care about this, at least a little bit. More to the point, I am getting cranky about this and want to get it off my chest. Anyway I'll tell you the deal. Kindly don't stick this post at the end of some old thread. This is a new topic.

I talk to many players all the time. It is almost as much a part of my life as breathing. As I have reported on this forum, a couple players I talk to are getting slow-payed by Wager Web. This has passed the 7 weeks mark.

(At this point, I'll take a moment to save robmpink the trouble and report that everything with WW is fine for him and he would definitely not discourage anyone from sending them money.)

Anyway, a couple weeks ago I asked one of the players being slow-payed why he doesn't file a complaint with SBR. I'll paraphrase his answer (and clean it up considerably):

"I don't trust those SBR fellows. I perceive that they are in cahoots with WagerWeb. They must have a sheet there and a financial interest in having deposits continue as much as possible."

Okay. That sort of thing generally just makes me roll my eyes. I don't even know why. The idea of a sheet is not that far-fetched. But I guess it's because I used to be a mod here and no one ever tried to influence anything I said about anything. That doesn't prove anything and maybe I'm naive but I don't go for the conspiracy theory.

BUT you know what? After some discussion of the evidence, I may not totally agree with his conclusion but I get where he is coming from.

And my experience since then only amplifies it.

He linked me to some posts from when WW was taking all those free shots at players and trying to cheat players and confiscate balances. There was some pretty eye-opening examples of SBR people acknowledging serious WW nonsense and all the SBR people do is say, "Yeah, wow, that's a shame," and then shrug it off.

SBRs main Wager Web investigator has openly and repeatedly acknowledged they have lies on their website (about payout methods) which are significantly impactful to players. Call it fraud, bait-and-switch, whatever - it's inarguably a bad thing for a sportsbook to be doing. SBR's reaction? Basically, "Yeah that's not very good, is it?"

But nothing happens.

I have also tried to post important updates about this ongoing slow-pay situation on this forum only to have SBR bury the info. Like when WW shut down their payout department for three days midweek a couple weeks back. It was new information that was relevant and timely. You guys buried it at the end of some old thread. (Bill did come along and touch on the subject later - using the words scam and clowns as I recall - and that thread was allowed to stay anyway.)

We can have 6 separate threads going about Sportsbook.com but new info on the WagerWeb slow-pays has to be buried at the end of long, old threads.

Has anyone from SBR even tried calling WagerWeb yet to ask if they are slow-paying? It's such a simple measure with no downside. They either confirm, deny or weasel - no one is worse off and in any of those three cases, something can be learned. Sorry if someone finally did that and I missed it, but when I suggested it all I got was resistance and continued casting of doubts on the credibility of my posts. I mean, I get that you'd prefer to have a complaint dropped in your lap but you can't even lift a finger otherwise?

It does give a perception of cahoots.

There have been bulletins on the SBR home page with headlines like wagerweb (SBR rating C) cheating sharp players

Cheating! That's SBR's chosen word. Cheating! SBR knows and acknowledges they are cheating.

Does the rating change? Not since December. Everything I am describing has happened since then.

Thus the perception of cahoots.

For the record, I don't believe SBR is in bed with Wager Web. I believe this is more a case of . . . I don't even know what. I'd like to say it's just a difference of opinion and SBR is on top of the situation but just not moving fast enough for some people's tastes - that happens all the time - but this feels more like, well, not being on top of it.

But at least WW's cheating is being reported. That's something. It's not like SBR is denying the transgressions that have been pointed out. At least they say, "Yeah that kinda sucks," before moving past it.

Anyway, I am a player and I feel the frustration of players. I have been slow-payed by weasels and it is a horrible feeling. So I have empathy.

Other than that, I don't know what to say. I feel like such a bad guy for trying to get this information to players.

Big difference of a book not paying for 3 days (even if it was some bs about updates to the system) vs. your swan song story of many people not being paid by any method for 7 weeks. Once again we didn't get any new info except for a "mystery man" who doesn't trust sbr. Anyone w/ a brain could read all of the WW/sbr stuff and see that sbr isn't a big fan of ww, but at the very least they are fair. Why would they lower them to a D if they weren't deserving? If they are derserving, so be it. You aren't the one making the decisions.

Mudhat, you could keep on with the rubbish like I'm telling people to deposit and I'm shilling. Once again in the many posts I made, point out where I said to make a deposit, blah, blah. You like to ignore stuff like this since you can't find any. Yet you go about saying i do. Also maybe your merry band of imaginary friends could muster up enough courage to contact sbr with the 7 week slow pay fantasy you concocted. Mudflap, with all of the knowledge you have can't you just quell the sbr misconceptions with your "buddy" and tell him to file a complaint w/ sbr?

In closing I'm sure we won't hear any new information except another post full of nothing that took him over 1 hour to compose. Hey Mudcrap, you know it did take you an hour to come up with this flop. Heh? Again, any good bonuses with Royal right now? I hear you have always been paid by them and they were good to you. Right? Nothing wrong with posting your experience with them, right? Nerd

[robmpink]

In a pleasant, interesting twist, as I was composing that, I received an e-mail that one of the players being slow-payed received the last of their payout.

It took 7 weeks, 3 days from the original request. Now it's just a matter of waiting to see if the cheque will clear but I suppose for the purposes of this discussion, we can stop the clock at 7 weeks, 3 days.

Apparently some proof will become available that will confirm I haven't been lying like a disgusting rug this whole time. I don't know what form that proof will take.

Suffice to say, everything I have said is 100% accurate. WagerWeb is currently taking the better part of 2 months to payout. Hopefully this will generate a response from SBR beyond, "Gosh! Bummer!"

The last of their payout? Did the "last of their payout" take 7 weeks and 3 days? Lets say they had $50,000 in the account , if there is $3K limit on checks or whatever I don't know how many per week, what would you expect? You need to be clearer on your facts bud. Did they request 1 payout, 2 payouts, 20 payouts? If there is a cap on a withdrawl method you can't do anything. If this isn't the case maybe you could e-mail your "buddy" for the details. Thanks Mudcrap!

[Dark Horse]

Warning is appreciated. Not that it was needed, but hey.

Mud, this is getting a little old. There's another thread on Wagerweb, by you, on page one. The difference being that in this thread you suggest that SBR is in bed with Wagerweb. So obviously you felt it necessary to open a separate thread just about that angle, instead of sticking it in with your other thread.

And that, my friend, is where you lose me. You even say in this thread that you don't believe SBR is in bed with Wagerweb. Then why do you open a separate topic on it? The heading is half the message, and you know it. You sound to me like a guy who's talking out of both sides of his mouth. You want to suggest that SBR is unreliable, but it's not you who's saying it... That kind of deal.

'There's a perception that SBR is in bed with WW. I know this is not true, but there's a perception. So I thought I'd better ring the bell about it.'

You're better than that, bud. There are a lot of perceptions.

[Peep]

I think they are a shit book, whiney as all get out, but I haven't seen any evidence of SBR covering up for them.

We'll see how this thread goes for you.

[Bill Dozer]

Mudcat,

First, no one at SBR says "gosh" or "bummer" or "golly gee"

I am not sure I follow your point. You are saying that SBR reports correctly on WagerWeb (all reports) disputes...You were always encouraged to speak freely when you worked here..."SBRs main Wager Web investigator has openly and repeatedly acknowledged they have lies on their website"....And, Bill called their actions a scam.

Has anyone from SBR even tried calling WagerWeb yet to ask if they are slow-paying? It's such a simple measure with no downside. They either confirm, deny or weasel - no one is worse off and in any of those three cases, something can be learned. Sorry if someone finally did that and I missed it, but when I suggested it all I got was resistance and continued casting of doubts on the credibility of my posts. I mean, I get that you'd prefer to have a complaint dropped in your lap but you can't even lift a finger otherwise?

You have been around long enough to know how this works. We pursue everything. Have you emailed SBR? Have you stated the date his payout was requested? By what method? How much was the payout(s) for? The only thing I have come across in the forum is comments about their behavior and that they should be a D instead of C.

I don't doubt you have an issue you believe needs attention but calling a book and asking if they are slow paying isn't going to pull the covers down. They are going to say no and ask who the player is. We would say, someone we heard about. The player wasn't actually willing to report it. Then next time we call for a player who is doing everything he can to get his money we would be at a disadvantage. Feel free to point us in the right direction. Mail

Regarding Wagerweb payouts we haven't received any contact except for a few players who have read these recent threads.

[Bullajami]

I perceive SBR to be unbiased in their WagerWeb reporting.
I do not perceive MudCat, Robmpink, or WagerWebSucks to be unbiased in their WagerWeb reporting.
Those are my perceptions.

[robmpink]

I perceive SBR to be unbiased in their WagerWeb reporting.
I do not perceive MudCat, Robmpink, or WagerWebSucks to be unbiased in their WagerWeb reporting.
Those are my perceptions.

Once again I challenge anyone to find something I have said about my WagerWeb experience that isn't true. I have no problem submitting proof to SBR if need be so some folks could take their foot out of their ass.

People either don't know how to read or they refuse to understand that I could only speak for myself.

Once again, the challenge is on the table. Maybe you could say I didn't get paid last week on the same day, I am a shill, I never received a big payout so I have nothing to worry about, etc.

[Bullajami]

If my post led to yours, then I can only say that I never stated or inferred that you said anything untrue. My observation is that you post positive remarks about WagerWeb in every WagerWeb thread. This gives me a perception that you have a positive bias toward them. It was not intended to be an insult.

By comparison, I find that SBR's comments (personified by Justin7, Bill Dozer, et al) are neutral. This gives me the perception that SBR does not have a bias with respect to WagerWeb.

[Rand790]

WagerWeb stole over $40,000 from me last year - this is good enough reason for everyone (except ROBMPINK) to avoid this sportsbook.