[Cookie Monster]

I asked for a withdrawal via moneybookers at BetPhoenix. The CS girl took the request, and said that the estimated time to process is three weeks. Wow, that is really too much. They usually advertised 7 business days (and took about 2 weeks), so this is hitting a new low; I hope I get paid before superbowl.

I remember some months ago SBR stepped in, saying that it was too much for a B+ sportsbook, and Betphoenix started paying faster... for a while. Looks like it is time to step in again.

[the_situation]

that book always looked pretty sketch to me

[Hareeba!]

What possible valid excuse can there be for such delays other than they just don't have the money?

Looking to me as though they may have spent their players' money paying the bills and are thus insolvent.

[acarmelo1]

Doesnt MoneyBookers payouts take like 5 mins?

[katstale]

If you are keeping money in the Moneybookers acct sufficient to cover the payout. Phoenix just always is low on funds at Bookers and Neteller. Not sure why that is, but its the truth. They got plenty of bucks, just need to take an alternative payout if u want faster. It is what I do.

[Hareeba!]

Doesnt MoneyBookers payouts take like 5 mins?

often yes
in my experience all the good books pay same day which for me is just as good as 5 mins
I don't accept that there are valid reasons for those who don't

[sharpcat]

I understand for players in the US due to the UIGEA but outside of the US it should take a book no longer to make a payment than it does for them to receive one.

[Hareeba!]

I understand for players in the US due to the UIGEA but outside of the US it should take a book no longer to make a payment than it does for them to receive one.

maybe so but US players can't use Moneybookers so we must be talking about a non US resident here so that excuse doesn't appear to stack up to me.

[JustinBieber]

Some books paid me literally instantly through moneybookers. Betphoenix took about 1 week with me berating them.

[Chopsticks]

I sent some $$s over to Wagerchief so hopefully that will speed it up for you a bit Cookie

[secretstash]

Call Richard.. he will speed this up for u or email him Richard@betphoenix.com

gl

-stash

[Bill Dozer]

I asked for a withdrawal via moneybookers at BetPhoenix. The CS girl took the request, and said that the estimated time to process is three weeks. Wow, that is really too much. They usually advertised 7 business days (and took about 2 weeks), so this is hitting a new low; I hope I get paid before superbowl.

I remember some months ago SBR stepped in, saying that it was too much for a B+ sportsbook, and Betphoenix started paying faster... for a while. Looks like it is time to step in again.

Yes, that is too long when it lists 10 business days. Have you requested a second choice method?

[Cookie Monster]

Yes, that is too long when it lists 10 business days. Have you requested a second choice method?

I guess I can use **, but the costs are just too much. Besides the fee, the money is paid here in pesos at a bad exchange rate. Worse, here in Mexico any cash deposited over $15,000 pesos (about $1170 USD) in a bank account in a calendar month is subject to a 3% tax. And to upload it again, moneybookers take an extra 2% exchange rate fee. Finally, the process would take well over a week, so the time saved is not much anyway.

I guess the question is why do they take so much time to pay via moneybookers. There are no processors or any reasonable cause to hold the funds even one week. I guess they are slowpaying just to see if the player keeps betting, I cannot think any other reason for holding the funds/keeping underfunded the moneybookers account.

[KGambler]

Yes, that is too long when it lists 10 business days.

So will we be reading about this on the front page, like we do all of the minor complaints against non-advertising books? Or is your agreement to keep BP issues off of the front page stil in effect?

[BigDaddy]

So will we be reading about this on the front page, like we do all of the minor complaints against non-advertising books? Or is your agreement to keep BP issues off of the front page stil in effect?

well said.



they put the screws to my friend BTJ by slow paying him leaving the funds requested in the account and he lost it all back

shady way of doing business.

[Chopsticks]

I guess they are slowpaying just to see if the player keeps betting, I cannot think any other reason for holding the funds/keeping underfunded the moneybookers account.

They are "slowpaying" for reasons similar to the reasons you do not want to use a different method. Kind of.

They get their money from all over the place, **, cheque, wire, **, moneylinewallet, neteller, moneybookers, ************.. whatever! Money is all over the place!

It is expensive for them to move around the funds. Sometimes they will be low on funds in Moneybookers, sometimess Neteller, sometimes other places. They probably have quite a few bank accounts that they sometimes withdraw to.

The main problem though is the money laundering rules. From moneybookers.com:

4.6. You may only add payment instruments (such as bank accounts, ************ or debit cards) to your Moneybookers Account if you are the named holder of that payment instrument. We take any violation of this requirement very seriously and will treat any attempt to add a payment instrument of which you are not the named holder as a fraudulent act.

I am sure that if you look at Neteller's site you will find a similar term.

So BP could have a lot of cash, but they can't just use any bank account to fund Moneybookers, Neteller and so on. They would need to have the money in the correct account(s), one that is listed as owned by the company BetPhoenix.

Now this may sound very easy and all, but it is not as easy as it sounds. Our good old friend Frank Fennel (raise your hand if you remember him!) explained it to me like this anyway, and some dude over at Betfirstclass told me the exact same thing. Maybe it is just an excuse but I am willing to believe it to some extent. Their problem is that they have money all over the place. They use a system where there are networks of bank accounts and network of "runners" who move money for them.

And if they do have everything in order, moving all that money around through the series of bank accounts (so that they finally get it to an account they can use with Moneybookers).... well that costs a lot of money and takes time. So they would much rather just sit and do nothing and hope someone will come along and deposit.

A top book like Pinnacle, 5Dimes, BetJamaica and so on do not have these problems because, well, they are top books. They would have a real system in order, and not only that, they have a pretty steady stream of deposits coming in on a daily basis. Smaller books like betphoenix, skybook before they were bought, bethorizon, blablabla, will have a problem because they suck and don't have everything in order for them to operate efficiently. However if you request a **, **, whatever.... you will get paid pretty damn fast because that is so much easier for them.

[secretstash]

they pay via wvu or ** in 24-48 hrs.. and a physical check takes only 2 weeks. not 3.. my suggestion is talk to richard to shorten your wait periods.. i have had success with this.

[sharpcat]

maybe so but US players can't use Moneybookers so we must be talking about a non US resident here so that excuse doesn't appear to stack up to me.

That is what I said.

I could understand the delay in payments to US residents due to the UIGEA.

To anyone residing outside of the US there is no reason why it should take the book any longer to pay out than it takes them to receive funds.

[Stumpage]

often yes
in my experience all the good books pay same day which for me is just as good as 5 mins
I don't accept that there are valid reasons for those who don't

Well said and couldn't agree more...3 weeks? Inexcusable.....

[dikefale]

Really inexcusable! People who want to play there and already adjusted to 1 day payout via MB will consider joining or continuing of deposits. Big NO NO. Many people have schedule and this can brake their chain.
On other hand i no book can be A or A+ if they dont deduct money from your account when you ask for withdrawal. I know BF isnt A but if they aim for this high level they must bring this changes to their financial part of site.

[Bill Dozer]

So will we be reading about this on the front page, like we do all of the minor complaints against non-advertising books? Or is your agreement to keep BP issues off of the front page stil in effect?

KG,
We know why you don't like BP.

The reason why you see the SBR reports usually on non-advertisers is we only take the upper tier books as sponsors and because we take the books down from the forum when they can't stick to their terms. Jazz/Looselines being one of the last ones.

We'll discuss ewallets with Phoenix and see if they can rectify. If they are indeed listing 10 business days and taking 30 and can't do anything about it, it is info helpful and relevant to readers.

[tomcast]

Bet Phoenix needs to do better.

[Cookie Monster]

They are "slowpaying" for reasons similar to the reasons you do not want to use a different method. Kind of.

They get their money from all over the place, **, cheque, wire, **, moneylinewallet, neteller, moneybookers, ************.. whatever! Money is all over the place!

It is expensive for them to move around the funds. Sometimes they will be low on funds in Moneybookers, sometimess Neteller, sometimes other places. They probably have quite a few bank accounts that they sometimes withdraw to.

The main problem though is the money laundering rules. From moneybookers.com:
I am sure that if you look at Neteller's site you will find a similar term.

So BP could have a lot of cash, but they can't just use any bank account to fund Moneybookers, Neteller and so on. They would need to have the money in the correct account(s), one that is listed as owned by the company BetPhoenix.

Now this may sound very easy and all, but it is not as easy as it sounds. Our good old friend Frank Fennel (raise your hand if you remember him!) explained it to me like this anyway, and some dude over at Betfirstclass told me the exact same thing. Maybe it is just an excuse but I am willing to believe it to some extent. Their problem is that they have money all over the place. They use a system where there are networks of bank accounts and network of "runners" who move money for them.

And if they do have everything in order, moving all that money around through the series of bank accounts (so that they finally get it to an account they can use with Moneybookers).... well that costs a lot of money and takes time. So they would much rather just sit and do nothing and hope someone will come along and deposit.

A top book like Pinnacle, 5Dimes, BetJamaica and so on do not have these problems because, well, they are top books. They would have a real system in order, and not only that, they have a pretty steady stream of deposits coming in on a daily basis. Smaller books like betphoenix, skybook before they were bought, bethorizon, blablabla, will have a problem because they suck and don't have everything in order for them to operate efficiently. However if you request a **, **, whatever.... you will get paid pretty damn fast because that is so much easier for them.

Thanks for the detailed explanation. Still, it makes no sense the problem with transferring funds between accounts. As Costa Rica is not a country with a local Moneybookers service, they have to make an International Bark transfer to get the deposited money and upload withdrawals. Not much problem to have the bank account certified, as it has to be the same that receives the funds. So, why do not they keep a fair reserve in the moneybookers account? It would be much easier and cheaper. Any bookie knows the "income" and "outcome" seasons, it is really easy to be prepared. The slowpaying at betphoenix is not caused for a seasonal cash shortage on the moneybookers account, it has been that way for years.

[durito]

KG,
We know why you don't like BP.

The reason why you see the SBR reports usually on non-advertisers is we only take the upper tier books as sponsors and because we take the books down from the forum when they can't stick to their terms. Jazz/Looselines being one of the last ones.

We'll discuss ewallets with Phoenix and see if they can rectify. If they are indeed listing 10 business days and taking 30 and can't do anything about it, it is info helpful and relevant to readers.

it's been like this forever, you haven't done anything yet

[Thremp]

it's been like this forever, you haven't done anything yet

Yes. There have been recorded slowpays for half a year? Maybe longer? I know I've posted on this issue before.

[evo34]

Why has anyone ever taken BetPhoenix seriously? They have (always had) every single sign of a poorly run book. It's a time bomb, and this has been apparent for years, not weeks.

[KGambler]

KG,
We know why you don't like BP.

The reason why you see the SBR reports usually on non-advertisers is we only take the upper tier books as sponsors and because we take the books down from the forum when they can't stick to their terms. Jazz/Looselines being one of the last ones.

We'll discuss ewallets with Phoenix and see if they can rectify. If they are indeed listing 10 business days and taking 30 and can't do anything about it, it is info helpful and relevant to readers.

Yes, it's true that I hate the lying, thieving incompetents over at BetPhoenix. They stole from me and spread lies about me in order to cover a serious issue they were having. Apparently they had an affiliate going into customers' accounts and using the casino or sportsbook to intentionally lose money. What happened to me (having my account broken in to and my balance maliciously wagered) happened to at least three other people who posted about it here on SBR. So I guess you can say I am "biased".

But just how stupid do you think your readers are? OK, many of them are clearly clowns, but you don't think most of the posters here can see through what you are saying?

Let's take a look at a couple of the the issues which happen to be on the front page right now...

A Parlaymakers (SBR rating C) player reports a payment complaint. On December 12th, the player asked for a withdrawal of $8,300. The player claims that he was told that the funds would take two weeks to arrive. On December 28th, he asked for another update and was reportedly told that payment would be made no later than January 7th. To date, the player has not been paid. | Parlaymakers history

UPDATE: Player confirms receiving payment on January 14th.

A Betsson (SBR rating B-) player reports that his account has been frozen. The player tells SBR that he has been playing at Betsson for four years without any problems. His account was frozen in late December of 2010. The player states that he had no available funds in the account, but that he had several unsettled bets for a few hundred Euro's. According to statements made by Betsson, the player was accused of chip-dumping in the poker room. SBR is following up on this complaint.

The first is a slow pay. I don't see any of the BP slow pay complaints making the front page. Hmm, seems strange.

The second is an unresolved dispute. There have been many serious customer disputes with BetPhoenix, none of which has ever made the front page. How come none of these disputes were ever reported? How come non-advertisers are placed on the front page as soon as you open an "investigation", but a book which is paying you is immune from such treatment? Do you really think we are this stupid? I am not saying that these two disputes quoted above should not be on the front page. I am saying that books which advertise with you or use you as an affiliate should be treated the same way as the books which don't.

Anyone who browses the front page on a regular basis knows that all kinds of minor and unresolved disputes are posted there. Meanwhile, none of these major BetPhoenix disputes/problems ever made the front page ...

(quoting from a post I made back in June, which I can no longer find on SBR but which I now cut and pasted from another forum... which is the reason the links to the SBR threads don't work. But those are the thread titles)

Serious issues SBR posters have experienced with this book (thread titles listed below description):

1. A customer requests a payout via Moneybookers through the live chat. A scam artist posing as the customer later goes into livechat and requests that BP change the Moneybookers payment to a different account with a very similiar email address. BP inexplicably goes ahead and sends the money to the second account. Just one of many inside job/rogue employee thefts that you will see in this list. The customer was eventually reimbursed in full, but it took months.

Betphoenix - my story related to security issues and slow payments.

2. Currently slow paying. Currently unable to send checks, although their website claims that check withdrawals are still available and that they only take 3-4 business days.

Too many current threads to list!

3. This is what happened to me. Someone logged into my account (you will see that this happened to at least three other people) and made enough 3, 4 and 5 team parlay bets to bust my entire available balance. BP initially said my account was not hacked, then said it was, then went back to saying it wasn't. Despite the fact that many of these parlays consisted entirely of games which were not close to starting when I alerted BP to the hacking, they waited until all of the parlays were losers, then informed me that they would not cancel any of them.

My BETPHOENIX ACCOUNT HAS BEEN BROKEN INTO

4. A customer opens his account to find 7,000 Euros missing. It turns out a hacker is playing like a maniac (hitting hard 18s, soft 20s, etc.) in the casino at the same time the customer is contacting CS to find out where the hell his money went. Months later, this customer was able to get a full refund. This, after BP told lies that only his IP address showed up in their system as having logged in. Poster "Marauders" also posts in the thread to say that the same thing has happened to him. BP has refused to reimburse Marauders for his phantom casino losses. Also in this thread, the amazing revelation that a customers password is contained in the URL when they log into BP's website.

7000 euros missing from betphoenix account

5. A pending bet simply disappears from a customers account. Have you ever heard of something so ridiculous? Other than having your money simply disappear from your account (see above), this is one of the worst problems I have ever heard of occuring at any sportsbook. How can you trust a sportsbook where bets disappear from their database. BetPhoenix actually admits that the bet did disappear from their database. They tracked down the bet and put it back as pending. Amazing! Multiple people (including myself) had earlier had experiences where winning wagers seemingly disappeared into thin air. You can read about that in this thread too.

More Bet Phoenix skulduggery

6. A player logs into his account and notices that $3,400 is missing. He contacts CS and is told that he lost it in the casino. Sound familiar??? Again, it was a hacker who played crazy in the casino. This customer received a 100% refund. Actually, this thread is where Marauders first posted that his account was also hacked - all the way back on February 8th. They gave Marauders the run around until June 2nd and then told him they wouldn't reimburse him for his "losses".

Help! Account problems at BetPhoenix

7. Many posters question this guy's story, but here it is... This guy became a BP agent. His players won a bunch of money, and after only 4 weeks the agent requested a complete withdrawal of all funds. It's safe to say that this behavior must have pissed off BP. Take my advice, don't make BP or any of their employees mad if you have a nice balance there. This agent made arrangements to personally pick up his $24,470 withdrawal in CA. He then asked BP if his brother could make the pick up instead. BP said "no problem". BP informed the agent that he needs to use a password at the pickup. They gave the agent the password over the phone. 30 minutes later, before the agent even has a chance to relay the info (including password) to his brother, the agent calls BP to inquire if the money is ready yet. BP informs him that the agent's "brother" has already arranged a meeting, provided the password, and collected the $24,470.

Betphoenix.com Scammed me for $24,470

8. A Bet Phoenix customer has his credit card charged by BP's credit card processor, even though he never made a deposit. ttaylor89 cut and paste this, apparently from another forum. He pasted all of the thread comments (again, from some other forum) in page 4 of the "My BETPHOENIX ACCOUNT HAS BEEN BROKEN..." thread. It's kind of messy though, so I am just putting the pasted live chat here.


michael : this one on the 3rd of march i need to know about

Kathy: That transaction does not have an amount on it?

michael : yes it was deposited from my account for $500

Kathy: ok thanks, please allow me one more minute, I am with accounting on the phone

michael : the thing is that i didn't approve this transaction at all!

michael : let them know that

michael : i use a debit VC card and i check my online bank balance this morning and it showed a transaction from you guys for $500 on march 3rd

Kathy: Ok Michael, the situation is the following

Kathy: There was a system error at the processor that provoked a few charges by mistake, they are aware of this and they have started the process for the money to be credited back to your bank account / credit card

Kathy: You can contact your bank to know exactly when the money will hit your account, please do not mention that this transaction is for gambling purposes

michael : are u serious?

Kathy: just tell your bank that you are expecting a credit back from Virtual Web Card Luxemburg from a online purchase that you made

Kathy: and that you need to know when will it arrive

Kathy: I apologize for the inconvenience, the processor is taking care of that

michael : can u forward email to sam

Kathy: sure, I can inform Sam about the situation

michael : this is unreal

michael : if i never caught this you would have taken 500 from me

Kathy: as I am telling you there was a system problem at the processor

michael : this is very unprofessional of you guys

Kathy: and they fixed it right away

Kathy: the money is on the way back

michael : i am really upset that you guys would do this to me

Kathy: unfortunately we do not handle the processor's situations

michael : how long will it take to get my money back

Kathy: it is a total different company

Kathy: that will depend on your bank, you can contact them for that information

Kathy: tell them that you are expecting a credit back from Virtual Web Card Luxemburg from a online purchase that you made

Kathy: you should be receiving it this coming week

michael : i need that money now

Kathy: The money is already on the way, I apologize for the inconvenience


They also flat out told me in chat (when I was asking about my account being hacked) that several customers had their ************ charged when they hadn't deposited! Look for the red quotes...

Please wait for a site operator to respond.
You are now chatting with 'Wendy'
Wendy: Hello. How may I assist you?
Mike: Hi Wendy. My account was broken into. I am supposed to talk to Derek about it.
Wendy: one sec please
Mike: Thanks
Please wait while I transfer the chat to 'DerekB'.
You are now chatting with 'DerekB'
DerekB: Hello Mike, let me transfer you to my one of my managers who was looking into the matter.. thanks
Mike: OK, thanks
Please wait while I transfer the chat to 'Jason'.
You are now chatting with 'Jason'
Jason: hello Mike
Mike: Hi Jason. Can you tell me what you see for the IP addresses?
Jason: XX.XX.XXX.XXX
Mike: Any others??? What are your findings?
Jason: give me a sec
Mike: OK, thanks
Jason: i cant see anything else
Jason: but i dont have that kind of access either
Mike: What is being done about this?
Mike: I want the $183 in losses refunded. I want the pending wagers that I did not place cancelled. I want my account closed
Jason: this issue just happened today..and we need to investigate
Jason: it
Jason: i just need your patience
Jason: inorder to rectify this situation
Jason: i understand how you feel
Jason: i have clients that feel the same way
Mike: OK, so you are still investigating. Sorry, I am getting worried because you tell me you only see 1 IP address.
Jason: but they all are giving me the time
Jason: like i said i only see a limited access to Ip addresses
Mike: I have no problem with giving you time to investigate.
Jason: give us some time
Mike: Do you know about how long it will take?
Mike: Also, could you do me a favor? I can not log into my account now, which is how I want it. But I would like for you to email me the wagers that were places on Tuesday and Wednesday.
Mike: *placed
Jason: ok hold on
Jason: ok i have to get access to copy that from your account from our IT dept
Jason: give me an hour or so
Jason: ok
Mike: OK, thanks
Mike: Did this happen to more clients this week???
Jason: thats what we are finding out
Jason: some are having issues with ************ being charged
Jason: so we need to see if these guys have the abilty to hack us
Jason: so bear with us
Jason: i have a few more clients to talk with
Jason: you need anything else
Mike: OK, thanks for telling me. I will check the card I used. I see now why you need more time to investigate if there are other cases. I will look for your email later. Thanks for the help and I will contact you later
Mike: goodbye
Jason: good bye
Chat session has ended.

Not one of these serious issues has ever made SBR's front page. Does SBR have an agreement with BP to keep complaints off of the front page? Any one of these extremely serious complaints should have been on the front page, with a link to the relevant thread. You know, just like all the non-paying books are treated... Take a look at SBR's current front page and tell me how in the hell none of these doozies made it.

I do respect the fact that you have an open forum here. I was not even allowed to post my horrible experience with BetPhoenix at two supposedly "open" forums. Here was my experience with "Covers":

Just wanted to add that I was prohibited from posting my story over at Covers. They deleted my post and emailed me saying they wanted to talk to me on the phone first.

Lou from Covers did call me last week. He said that he spoke to Richard about my issue, and that he was satisfied that BetPhoenix did nothing wrong. He said that he could not allow me to come on and post my negative experience with one of his forum sponsors, because without advertisers there would be no forum. I asked him if I could just post my side of the story, with a comment from Lou that he talked to Richard and was satisfied that BP was in the right. He said no, he could not allow someone to post such a story about one of his sponsors.

Simply disgusting. I don't mind at all that people make a business out of promoting sportsbooks, but if somone claims they have an open forum, then it should really be an open forum.

[magynuck]

Even saying it will take 10 business days and they come in on that time frame does not make it right. The fact that they pay in the end is a plus. However, the fact that they take 2+ weeks to accomplish a keystroke operation has to be a negative. No other SBR highly rated book takes more than 24 hours to do this; many accomplish it in minutes. I am not sure which is more galling, the fact that they hold onto the money for an unreasonable amount of time or the fact that SBR refuses to acknowledge that this is unacceptable behavior for a book rated this highly

[Bill Dozer]

Thanks for the detailed explanation. Still, it makes no sense the problem with transferring funds between accounts. As Costa Rica is not a country with a local Moneybookers service, they have to make an International Bark transfer to get the deposited money and upload withdrawals. Not much problem to have the bank account certified, as it has to be the same that receives the funds. So, why do not they keep a fair reserve in the moneybookers account? It would be much easier and cheaper. Any bookie knows the "income" and "outcome" seasons, it is really easy to be prepared. The slowpaying at betphoenix is not caused for a seasonal cash shortage on the moneybookers account, it has been that way for years.

CM,

I spoke BP yesterday and they said they would send you 3 weeks worth of MoneyBookers by wire right away and would make sure the fees were not above Moneybookers fee. They will also cover the currency exchange fee if there is one.

It looks like CS is asking for 5 extra business days. Phoenix states that they are funding their Ewallets now and will avoid this scenario in the future. BP also said that Moneybookers is mostly used for outgoing money and the ratio was much higher than expected at the end of the year.

That's not an excuse and all books that advertise the eWallets need to realize that this is really the only way for Europeans to withdraw at low costs. So far it sounds like they do and this is not a Jazz/Looselines type of deal where they advertise the wallets that they indefinitely won't be able to use. Communication when a player isn't getting the expected service should also be better.

[TobiasFunke]

CM,

I spoke BP yesterday and they said they would send you 3 weeks worth of MoneyBookers by wire right away and would make sure the fees were not above Moneybookers fee. They will also cover the currency exchange fee if there is one.

It looks like CS is asking for 5 extra business days. Phoenix states that they are funding their Ewallets now and will avoid this scenario in the future. BP also said that Moneybookers is mostly used for outgoing money and the ratio was much higher than expected at the end of the year.

That's not an excuse and all books that advertise the eWallets need to realize that this is really the only way for Europeans to withdraw at low costs. So far it sounds like they do and this is not a Jazz/Looselines type of deal where they advertise the wallets that they indefinitely won't be able to use. Communication when a player isn't getting the expected service should also be better.

[BigDaddy]

CM,

I spoke BP yesterday and they said they would send you 3 weeks worth of MoneyBookers by wire right away and would make sure the fees were not above Moneybookers fee. They will also cover the currency exchange fee if there is one.

It looks like CS is asking for 5 extra business days. Phoenix states that they are funding their Ewallets now and will avoid this scenario in the future. BP also said that Moneybookers is mostly used for outgoing money and the ratio was much higher than expected at the end of the year.

That's not an excuse and all books that advertise the eWallets need to realize that this is really the only way for Europeans to withdraw at low costs. So far it sounds like they do and this is not a Jazz/Looselines type of deal where they advertise the wallets that they indefinitely won't be able to use. Communication when a player isn't getting the expected service should also be better.

thats why this site is the best on the net.

Bill gets answers

what other site could get done what bill did in just a few days?

[bracerman]

CM,

Phoenix states that they are funding their Ewallets now and will avoid this scenario in the future.

I sure hope this is true, but I have heard the same story from them countless times previous;y. I'm going to have to see it to believe it.

[Cookie Monster]

CM,

I spoke BP yesterday and they said they would send you 3 weeks worth of MoneyBookers by wire right away and would make sure the fees were not above Moneybookers fee. They will also cover the currency exchange fee if there is one.

It looks like CS is asking for 5 extra business days. Phoenix states that they are funding their Ewallets now and will avoid this scenario in the future. BP also said that Moneybookers is mostly used for outgoing money and the ratio was much higher than expected at the end of the year.

That's not an excuse and all books that advertise the eWallets need to realize that this is really the only way for Europeans to withdraw at low costs. So far it sounds like they do and this is not a Jazz/Looselines type of deal where they advertise the wallets that they indefinitely won't be able to use. Communication when a player isn't getting the expected service should also be better.

Thanks very much, Bill.

The offer shows good faith from BP. I am not really in a hurry to get my funds out (even though I much prefer having not too much on any book after superbowl). So, I can wait an extra week, there is no need to burden BP with extra fees. What I really want is having a fairly reasonable time on any further withdrawals. I hope they deliver.

[yobinad]

Wow... so much time to process a payment.

[lukahh]

CM,

I spoke BP yesterday and they said they would send you 3 weeks worth of MoneyBookers by wire right away and would make sure the fees were not above Moneybookers fee. They will also cover the currency exchange fee if there is one.

It looks like CS is asking for 5 extra business days. Phoenix states that they are funding their Ewallets now and will avoid this scenario in the future. BP also said that Moneybookers is mostly used for outgoing money and the ratio was much higher than expected at the end of the year.

That's not an excuse and all books that advertise the eWallets need to realize that this is really the only way for Europeans to withdraw at low costs. So far it sounds like they do and this is not a Jazz/Looselines type of deal where they advertise the wallets that they indefinitely won't be able to use. Communication when a player isn't getting the expected service should also be better.

Thank you for the answer.

There is one thing i'd be very worried about, if i were BP customer.
What comes in via mb, goes out via mb. Nobody funds account via Fedex just to cashout via mb. It appears to me their net position from moneybookers transaction is either

a) negative due to losses (ie. players are winning more than depositing)
b) they took cash out of mb to their bank account (perhaps to pay for regular bills)

I hope my thinking is wrong