[jjgold]

Its close between Pinny and Betfair as far as lower juice

I actually like spread betting during game because you can close trade out anytime

With live betting you really cannot close out position

[Hareeba!]

Since when did Pinnacle deal -105/-105? Why wouldn't you compare -104/-104 like they use on soccer? Or is intellectual dishonesty your specialty?

it was a tennis match
since when did Pinnacle deal 8 cent lines for tennis?

NB: The entire market on Fed is barely over 50k to win. How exactly is that "easily" when odds are significantly different?

did you not see the amount matched?
Betfair is an exchange ... that amount is not a LIMIT. Ask for more and every chance you'll get it at the same price on a market as mature as that one

[Thremp]

Math. Not your fukkin strong suit.

Look at the overround for the Djokovic match. And tell me what its equivalent to.

wrt to your 2nd point. lol. Just fukkin lol.


Again, factual errors coupled with fukkin ridiculous viewpoints.

[king]

Is there any live betting for basketball games on a daily.

[Hareeba!]

Math. Not your fukkin strong suit.

Look at the overround for the Djokovic match. And tell me what its equivalent to.

wrt to your 2nd point. lol. Just fukkin lol.


Again, factual errors coupled with fukkin ridiculous viewpoints.

I can get 1.35 (1.3325 at full comm) Betfair on Djokovic for $17k
At Pinnacle 1.321

I'll leave it to you to worry about maths and overrounds
I'll just concentrate on getting the best odds as I always do

[Thremp]

I like where you claimed the vigorish wasn't -104/-104.

Stop the lies.

[Hareeba!]

I like where you claimed the vigorish wasn't -104/-104.

Stop the lies.

it wasn't a lie - it was a question

anyway it isn't -104/-104

as I said, I concentrate on getting best odds, not maths and overrounds

you should try it .. you might win

[FourLengthsClear]

To win 12k USD. Congrats. How long did it take you to find that?

Since when did Pinnacle deal -105/-105? Why wouldn't you compare -104/-104 like they use on soccer? Or is intellectual dishonesty your specialty?


NB: The entire market on Fed is barely over 50k to win. How exactly is that "easily" when odds are significantly different?

Then again you are apparently illiterate (unable to read Pinnacle). Needless to say loltacular.

Are you being obtuse, or are you thick?

Prior to the match over USD 2.1 million was traded. Not 50k. The figures available on screen are a snapshot at that moment. Five minutes later (and 5 minutes earlier for that matter) another 50k would be available. Maybe the line would move, maybe not just like a regular book.

I used -105 because -104 is not available on every market/sport from Pinny, not intellectually dishonest therefore, just realistic. P.s. Pinny limit is USD 20k.

The bottom line is that with a 3 percent commission rate at Betfair (not too easy to achieve, I would acknowledge) the juice/cost is equivalent to even -104 lines. A major plus-point, however is that hedging (or scalping out) in the same market incurs what is essentially negative juice.

[Thremp]

Its fine if you want to get the best odds. This thread isn't "Hareeba posting bets he doesn't actually make". You were attempting to make factual statements that you do not have the ability to make because you can't do 4th grade math. You clowned yourself hard in post 72, and your fangirl is intellectually dishonest (or likewise incompetent).

I would say you put up a valiant argument, but in reality you've just shown how someone deluded with thoughts of mediocrity can flaunt their incompetence for all to see.

[Hareeba!]

Its fine if you want to get the best odds. This thread isn't "Hareeba posting bets he doesn't actually make". You were attempting to make factual statements that you do not have the ability to make because you can't do 4th grade math. You clowned yourself hard in post 72, and your fangirl is intellectually dishonest (or likewise incompetent).

I would say you put up a valiant argument, but in reality you've just shown how someone deluded with thoughts of mediocrity can flaunt their incompetence for all to see.

Simple question Mr Maths guru -

Was a better price available for the favourite at BF than at Pinnacle even after comm. at the max level for a quite substantial stake despite Pinnacle's lower overround?

That's all that punters really care about. Not maths.

[Thremp]

No. That is actually nothing like what you said. Nor what was being claimed. Its pretty ridiculous how deluded you are and completely unable to admit obvious and repeated error.

Also, lol @ that being substantial. Guess shit is pretty cheap in Europe.

[FourLengthsClear]

Its fine if you want to get the best odds. This thread isn't "Hareeba posting bets he doesn't actually make". You were attempting to make factual statements that you do not have the ability to make because you can't do 4th grade math. You clowned yourself hard in post 72, and your fangirl is intellectually dishonest (or likewise incompetent).

I would say you put up a valiant argument, but in reality you've just shown how someone deluded with thoughts of mediocrity can flaunt their incompetence for all to see.

So in the absense of fact or even rational argument, resort to name-calling.
Is that your M.O.?

It is my understanding that you are a bit of a mathematician, it should take you 1 minute to find any inaccuracy in my figures. No?

Even I were to accept that, overall (and certainly for someone who would pay 5 percent commission and doesn't trade), Pinny offers better value, that would still not be a reason not to have Betfair as an out.

[Hareeba!]

No. That is actually nothing like what you said. Nor what was being claimed. Its pretty ridiculous how deluded you are and completely unable to admit obvious and repeated error.

Also, lol @ that being substantial. Guess shit is pretty cheap in Europe.

so $17k isn't a substantial bet?
well I don't really think there are too many who visit this forum who'd not think so
but I suppose the $20k limit on Pinnacle's price is?
and if you took the $20k at Pinnacle the odds would automatically reduce so if you wanted more you'd have to accept lower odds
whereas you could ask for $25k at Betfair and more than likely have been fully matched

[Mr. Peepers]

i dont do it much but might have to consider it in the near future.

[Thremp]

17k risk vs 20k to win... One bet is around a quarter of the size of the other.

Risk/Win. Its a pretty basic concept that most people understand very quickly. Yet you and your friend apparently don't realize that BF amounts are risk only (ever wonder why there is such a disparity in the fave/dog). Kinda sad. But again, you guys can't do 4th grade math.

How do you know that amount would be matched? I see offers for a fraction of 25k going unmatched for hours. So how exactly is an offer 10x the size going to get matched in a reasonable time frame.

[Hareeba!]

17k risk vs 20k to win... One bet is around a quarter of the size of the other.

Risk/Win. Its a pretty basic concept that most people understand very quickly. Yet you and your friend apparently don't realize that BF amounts are risk only (ever wonder why there is such a disparity in the fave/dog). Kinda sad. But again, you guys can't do 4th grade math.

How do you know that amount would be matched? I see offers for a fraction of 25k going unmatched for hours. So how exactly is an offer 10x the size going to get matched in a reasonable time frame.

because I use Betfair every day and know what's likely to be matched
a very mature market like that one I would expect would accommodate such a figure and probably a whole lot more
didn't you see the amount which had already been matched? - and it will be a whole lot larger by the time the game starts

[FourLengthsClear]

17k risk vs 20k to win... One bet is around a quarter of the size of the other.

Risk/Win. Its a pretty basic concept that most people understand very quickly. Yet you and your friend apparently don't realize that BF amounts are risk only (ever wonder why there is such a disparity in the fave/dog). Kinda sad. But again, you guys can't do 4th grade math.

How do you know that amount would be matched? I see offers for a fraction of 25k going unmatched for hours. So how exactly is an offer 10x the size going to get matched in a reasonable time frame.

Grow up.

With experience you know (almost) what markets will have the required liquidity and which won't.
I repeat that in any Grand Slam singles match you could EASILY get USD 50k down (to risk or to win).

Want to try to move the goalposts somewhere else?

[Thremp]

Why are there not 50k of offers at the best price? (In some cases only a few hundred.)

You keep saying this but there are no offers to substantiate your theories.

In addition you avoid my question about why you used a -105/-105 market when we were discussing a -104/-104 market. Again... Is 4th grade math really that difficult? You find contention where there is none. Facts are not up for debate. You presented a fact based on unrealistic comparisons that you fabricated in order to shill your horse rather than using reality.

Its understandable for you who are incompetent at math.

[FourLengthsClear]

Why are there not 50k of offers at the best price? (In some cases only a few hundred.)

You keep saying this but there are no offers to substantiate your theories.

In addition you avoid my question about why you used a -105/-105 market when we were discussing a -104/-104 market. Again... Is 4th grade math really that difficult? You find contention where there is none. Facts are not up for debate. You presented a fact based on unrealistic comparisons that you fabricated in order to shill your horse rather than using reality.

Its understandable for you who are incompetent at math.

I cannot answer why there were not 50k offers at the particular time you looked. Traders on the most part prefer to drip feed offers in an attempt to keep action relatively balanced. It is not a theory however, I have told you as a matter of fact that you could get 50k easily matched for any Grand Slam tennis match. If you choose to ignore that and maintain your stance that this is not the case, fine. You may be more intelligent than the average SBR clown but you are a clown nonetheless.

I did not ignore your -104 vs -105 pont, I answered it above. Unlike you I am not going to endlessly repeat myself.

I am not shilling any horse here. On balance I prefer Pinny to Betfair for several reasons. I was merely countering your numerous untruths.

It is understandable that, beneath the veneer, you are a clueless fukk.

[Thremp]

How can I get 50k matched without their being offers? How do you know it would get matched? Do you get 50k offers matched routinely? How long does it take to "drip in"?

I'm not a bit of a mathematician anymore than a 4th grader is a mathematician. It seems your response is contained in this bit of tripe: "Even I were to accept that, overall (and certainly for someone who would pay 5 percent commission and doesn't trade), Pinny offers better value, that would still not be a reason not to have Betfair as an out."

wtf does "even if I were to accept that". Its not a debate. Its a fact. You can close your eyes and scream out nonsense (much as you have this entire thread), but it doesn't change the fact that you simply make up silly bullshit.

Betfair is a fine out. If you want to trade in play markets, its one of a hand full of places to play. It will, however, rarely have the best price on a given event due to the vigorish, even for full discount players. That is not debatable as its impossible for it to have the best price on anymore than one side in >100.4 overround markets compared to Pinny and its entirely possible that it will never have the best price due to being a higher overround market.

It is funny you call me a clueless fukk when the two of you rely on conjecture and speculation (surely the traders will match offers) to support opinion, when either being entirely deluded (since when does pinny deal 8c on tennis?!?) or merely dishonest (comparing BF to 10c lines for tennis).

I merely am one man standing in front of a tidal wave of dishonest fukkin shills who lie because they're too fukkin stupid to understand the difference between fact and opinion.

[FourLengthsClear]

How can I get 50k matched without their being offers? How do you know it would get matched? Do you get 50k offers matched routinely? How long does it take to "drip in"?

I'm not a bit of a mathematician anymore than a 4th grader is a mathematician. It seems your response is contained in this bit of tripe: "Even I were to accept that, overall (and certainly for someone who would pay 5 percent commission and doesn't trade), Pinny offers better value, that would still not be a reason not to have Betfair as an out."

wtf does "even if I were to accept that". Its not a debate. Its a fact. You can close your eyes and scream out nonsense (much as you have this entire thread), but it doesn't change the fact that you simply make up silly bullshit.

Betfair is a fine out. If you want to trade in play markets, its one of a hand full of places to play. It will, however, rarely have the best price on a given event due to the vigorish, even for full discount players. That is not debatable as its impossible for it to have the best price on anymore than one side in >100.4 overround markets compared to Pinny and its entirely possible that it will never have the best price due to being a higher overround market.

It is funny you call me a clueless fukk when the two of you rely on conjecture and speculation (surely the traders will match offers) to support opinion, when either being entirely deluded (since when does pinny deal 8c on tennis?!?) or merely dishonest (comparing BF to 10c lines for tennis).

I merely am one man standing in front of a tidal wave of dishonest fukkin shills who lie because they're too fukkin stupid to understand the difference between fact and opinion.

3.8 percent commission (at Betfair) is equivalent to -105 lines
3.0 percent commission is equivalent to -104 lines
2.5 percent commission and Betfair beats Pinny in terms of the juice vs. commission calculation every time.

Do you dispute this? Yes or No.
If yes, lets go through the numbers like a couple of 4th graders. If no, then I your (repeated) assertions in your 4th parapraph are nonsense.

I have never placed a 50k bet in my life and do not make 50k offers, I do a lot of trading though and am well aware of how these markets work. On Grandslam Tennis Matches my matched bets would average GBP 200k (not in-play) albeit my aim is, of course, to keep action balanced, thus the tendency to drip-feed. Liquidity, likewise, varies from match to match. A QF between Murray and Federer would see a lot more interest than e.g. Soderling and Tsonga.

When did I say Pinny offered 8c on tennis? I used -105 because Pinny does not offer -104 on all markets. At the time were were talking generally, not about tennis.

[patswin]

you can get good middles at times if you have a few outs

[Thremp]

4Lengths,

Apparently you're a liar (tennis is 101.9% at Penis-cle) in addition to living in a fantasy land. Where are these 100% overround markets with 50k depth at BetFair? Or even with >1k?

I'm glad you proved your superiority to Hareeba. I'll make a 4th grade diploma for you.

Now. Do you understand that not every market at BF is 100% overround, in fact there are virtually none. 100.5% is even very rare. Welcome to reality. Now continue.

[FourLengthsClear]

4Lengths,

Apparently you're a liar (tennis is 101.9% at Penis-cle) in addition to living in a fantasy land. Where are these 100% overround markets with 50k depth at BetFair? Or even with >1k?

I'm glad you proved your superiority to Hareeba. I'll make a 4th grade diploma for you.

Now. Do you understand that not every market at BF is 100% overround, in fact there are virtually none. 100.5% is even very rare. Welcome to reality. Now continue.

I´ll take that as an acknowledgement that you agree with my figures which (I repeat) are based on 1.99/1.99 markets (100.5% overround).

If you want to talk sensibly about liquidtly vs limits and the best way to get big bets matched, let's do that. If you want to substitute debate with childishness then sorry but I am out.

[Thremp]

You didn't make it clear before. 100.5% markets are quite rare on BetFair, but this is suitable. Now you can mention the amount of implied win/loss you'd need to churn to earn/maintain a level of vigorish to be equivalent to Pinnacle. Then at that point we can discuss there being an equivalent level of bets (though if you have a week of less action... you regress to higher vigorish).

Pinny does deal -104 on Tennis. Check your math. I'll assume dishonest as you've shown rudimentary mathematical competence. Hareeba was the one who asserted it was not the vigorish that it is. Alternately, you could just be ignorant rather than intentionally dishonest.

[FourLengthsClear]

I though it was fairly clear in post 59.

It takes a commission rate of 3.8% to match -105 pricing if you assume:

a) a 50% win rate.
b) a 0.5% overround (essentially -101 pricing).

Once you get down into the area of 3 percent commission, the reverse of your argument is true.

To acheive and maintain a 3 percent commission rate requires winnings and losses (added together) to be approx. GBP 14,000 per week.

I did not say that Pinny did not offer -104 on Tennis (albeit not all tennis), I said they do not offer -104 on everything.

[necro]

live betting is a nice way to get from 50$ to 4800$ in one day and than you blow it all on all in on a bet to win 300$

[Thremp]

So to be slightly inferior to Pinnacle (100.5% markets are quite rare). You need to win/lose around $22,000 in a week there. Not including the high vig you'll pay initially to workup to that level.

Seems like a must for all punters to me. Who doesn't want to be locked into a book with limited liquidity, ever changing vig, and required weekly handle to avoid having your vigorish go up.

**** vacation or the off season. Can't lose the discount.

Again, Hareeba claimed that tennis wasn't offered at -104. You claimed it wasn't offered at that time. It was. Both are completely incorrect as they are not opinions. They are factual statements that are wrong.

[Handjuice]

I do good betting live in baseball but suck betting live when it comes to basketball so right now i'm just staying away from it.

[Hareeba!]

Odds currently available Nadal v Ferrer @ Pinnacle 1.125 v 7.65 (1.96% overround to make Thremp happy)

But at Betfair 1.13 v 8.20 back/8.60 lay
so even at 5% max comm you can effectively get 1.125 Nadal and 7.84 Ferrer
I don't pay 5% so I can get better odds both players at Betfair than at Pinnacle

and rather than taking the 8.20 Ferrer, I'd be inclined to ask for 8.40 (no offers) and stand an excellent chance of doing even better

I won't waste the effort putting up the prices for Dolgopolov v Murray but I can also achieve better odds for both at Betfair than at Pinnacle right now.

[FourLengthsClear]

So to be slightly inferior to Pinnacle (100.5% markets are quite rare). You need to win/lose around $22,000 in a week there. Not including the high vig you'll pay initially to workup to that level.

Seems like a must for all punters to me. Who doesn't want to be locked into a book with limited liquidity, ever changing vig, and required weekly handle to avoid having your vigorish go up.

**** vacation or the off season. Can't lose the discount.

Again, Hareeba claimed that tennis wasn't offered at -104. You claimed it wasn't offered at that time. It was. Both are completely incorrect as they are not opinions. They are factual statements that are wrong.

1) 22,000 per week should not be a problem who wants to put $50,000 down on a tennis match.
2) Is there such a thing as unlimited liquidity?
3) You can go on vacation. There is a provision for "Betfair Holidays", 4 weeks per year.
4) Please quote me on the Pinny tennis lines or stop intentionally misrepresenting what I said.

On the subject to statements that are wrong. You stated
quote
That is not debatable as its impossible for it to have the best price on anymore than one side in >100.4 overround markets compared to Pinny and its entirely possible that it will never have the best price due to being a higher overround market.
unquote

Do you still believe that?

[Thremp]

Odds currently available Nadal v Ferrer @ Pinnacle 1.125 v 7.65 (1.96% overround to make Thremp happy) But at Betfair 1.13 v 8.20 back/8.60 lay so even at 5% max comm you can effectively get 1.125 Nadal and 7.84 Ferrer I don't pay 5% so I can get better odds both players at Betfair than at Pinnacle and rather than taking the 8.20 Ferrer, I'd be inclined to ask for 8.40 (no offers) and stand an excellent chance of doing even better I won't waste the effort putting up the prices for Dolgopolov v Murray but I can also achieve better odds for both at Betfair than at Pinnacle right now.

Check your totem.

[Hareeba!]

Check your totem.

pardon?

[Thremp]

1) 22,000 per week should not be a problem who wants to put $50,000 down on a tennis match. 2) Is there such a thing as unlimited liquidity? 3) You can go on vacation. There is a provision for "Betfair Holidays", 4 weeks per year. 4) Please quote me on the Pinny tennis lines or stop intentionally misrepresenting what I said. On the subject to statements that are wrong. You stated quote That is not debatable as its impossible for it to have the best price on anymore than one side in >100.4 overround markets compared to Pinny and its entirely possible that it will never have the best price due to being a higher overround market. unquote Do you still believe that?

1) Considering the liquidity. I still see no offers for this occurring. More speculation.
2) I have no fukkin clue what you drooling about.
3) Oh. How nice of them.
4) You ninja edited your prior posts. Rather pathetic. But what can be expected.

Show me where I'm wrong. Hareeba failed 4th grade math again.

[FourLengthsClear]

1) Considering the liquidity. I still see no offers for this occurring. More speculation.
2) I have no fukkin clue what you drooling about.
3) Oh. How nice of them.
4) You ninja edited your prior posts. Rather pathetic. But what can be expected.

Show me where I'm wrong. Hareeba failed 4th grade math again.

You should have stopped there.
I am done.