[bigboydan]

BetJoint applies bonus rule to parlay winnings; costs player $3,051

The player made two winning 3-team parlays wagering $250 and $150 in free-play bonus money to win a total of $5,359. The last leg of both parlays were on the San Diego Padres +1.5 run line. The player also made a regular moneyline bet on the Padres as well as a wager on the opposing team using his deposited funds. The next day the user account was debited $3,051 and his parlays were recalculated as 2-teamers with the third leg removed. BetJoint cited the rule below:

You are allowed to bet both sides of the same game or both sides of a total on the same game, PROVIDING THAT IT IS ALWAYS WITH YOUR OWN CASH AND NEVER INCLUDES THE USE OF ANY ‘FREE PLAY’ CREDIT. This rule applies to all straight-action wagers and also any plays that are used in parlays or teasers. For example, if you make a FREE PLAY wager on Team “A” or use Team “A” in a parlay or teaser wager using FREE PLAY credits, you are not allowed to bet Team “B” from that same game or event with either FREE PLAY credits or CASH play. Likewise, if you make a CASH wager on Team “A” or use Team “A” in a parlay or teaser wager, you are not allowed to bet Team “B” from that same game or event with FREE PLAY credits. However, you can make CASH plays on both sides of the same game in all instances, whether it is straight action, parlays or teasers. Violations of this rule will result in both/all bets on that event or game being cancelled and those bets will be considered null and void. In such instances, the cash play money will be refunded to customer's account and the customer will automatically forfeit all remaining Free Play credits in his/her account as penalty for rule violation.

The player argues that his cash bets oppose each other and were not made in an attempt to hedge out of the parlay. He also argues that BetJoint is using a single cash bet to void two separate larger parlay wagers. The rule is considered fine print due to the fact that the software does not prohibit these actions. This is the second case of this rule biting into an account balance this year. In February a player was in a similar situation. His free-play parlay lost and the cash bet won. BetJoint handled it differently, canceling the player’s winning cash wager that was opposing the last leg of a losing parlay. BetJoint assured SBR that had the parlay won it would have been honored and the losing cash bet would have been no-actioned. BetJoint stated it aimed to prohibit the player from making a cash bet on the opposing team and it expects its software to prohibit the free-play buy-back bet in the near future. In this most recent report, the player’s $575 cash bet was honored while the parlay legs were not. Despite inconsistent handling with the two accounts, BetJoint’s management states that the rule gives the book the ability to cancel any and all bets referenced in the rule. Players should be aware of the odd rule and the liberties it gives the sportsbook. Under this catch-all stipulation a sportsbook has the ability to cancel winning cash wagers or void a $7,000 8-team parlay if the bettor was to make a $20 cash bet that was opposite one of the picks in his parlay.

[Justin7]

When do these guys get downgraded?

[Bill Dozer]

Side note... The rule quoted in that news wire appears to be changed from the one below after the player's dispute.
http://www.sportsbookreview.com/Bett...x?d=03/26/2008

You are allowed to bet both sides of the same game, PROVIDING THAT IT IS ALWAYS WITH YOUR OWN CASH AND NEVER INCLUDES THE USE OF ANY ‘FREE PLAY’ CREDIT. Any violations This rule applies to all straight-action wagers and also any plays that are used in parlays or teasers. For example, if you make a FREE PLAY wager on Team “A” or use Team “A” in a parlay or teaser wager using FREE PLAY credits, you are not allowed to bet Team “B” from that same game or event with either FREE PLAY credits or CASH play. Likewise, if you make a CASH wager on Team “A” or use Team “A” in a parlay or teaser wager, you are not allowed to bet Team “B” from that same game or event with FREE PLAY credits. However, you can make CASH plays on both sides of the same game in all instances, whether it is straight action, parlays or teasers. Violations of this rule will result in both/all bets on that event or game being cancelled and those bets will be considered null and void. In such instances, the cash play money will be refunded to customer's account and the customer will automatically forfeit all remaining Free Play credits in his/her account as penalty for rule violation.

[MOST]

Side note... The rule quoted in that news wire appears to be changed from the one below after the player's dispute.
http://www.sportsbookreview.com/Bett...x?d=03/26/2008
...
However, you can make CASH plays on both sides of the same game in all instances, whether it is straight action, parlays or teasers.

Is this place BetJoint for real? They have a printed rule that doesn't seem fair in the first place, and then they ignore what their own rule says?

I can't believe this place.

[JELLYBEAN]

Stick with ur locals boyz. 95% of these offshore post ups are not BOOKMAKERS. Locals boyz..find a good one..there are plenty around.

[Bill Dozer]

Is this place BetJoint for real? They have a printed rule that doesn't seem fair in the first place, and then they ignore what their own rule says?

I can't believe this place.

Yep, it's a bonus scam. A lot of books have rules as deterrents but this one, which seems to change every time we run the rules monitor, basically says, if situation XYZ occurs...we can do whatever we want to the bets involved.

A lot of new and low rated books have silly bonus stipulations. As raw of a deal as Jason got, the previous player had his cash bet voided. Fine print shouldn't be needed to decide if a bet is a bet.

C- can be ok for a book with bonus issues but considering how the player was treated, the fact that they are new, and were unwilling to discuss the facts suggests the most common rating of D+ is more appropriate.

Mark has the experience to know these policies will keep a book from growing. He hasn't always been receptive to other opinions but maybe he has had the time to let this marinate. SBR will check back with BetJoint.

[MOST]

Mark has the experience to know these policies will keep a book from growing. He hasn't always been receptive to other opinions but maybe he has had the time to let this marinate. SBR will check back with BetJoint.

Thanks for the response, Bill. Please keep SBR readers posted.

[fiveteamer]

I was going to post up at least 4 dimes with these guys. And I have a shitty roi, check picks of the day thread. Thanks for the heads-up!

[PSIC]

I can only speak for myself but I've used BetJoint since they've opened and never had a problem. I've found, in general that most sportsbooks have "strange" rules involving bonus money. I have had situations with bets being cancelled with nearly every sportsbook because I am a big believer in using time zoned parlays and hedging to guarantee a win.

I found a solution to the problem. I NEVER take their free bonus money and I NEVER have that problem. Now I can use the 3 or 4 books who PAY the best and Bet Joint as well as Bet Jamaica / The greek are the best paying. I'm not saying that bet joint is right for their actions here because the parlays were put in fair and square but the whole point of betting is to win and COLLECT. From my 10 years of online gaming experience and my prior 10 years in the casino business...anytime you can avoid the "freebies" you'll have clean transactions.

[tomcowley]

Thanks shill.

[MOST]

Hey PSIC - or should I say the guy BetJoint paid off to rescue its rep -

How could you say anything good about a book that refuses to take SBR seriously? Every poster in the last month said that BetJoint stole this player's money. SBR's moderators told BetJoint to own up.

In response, we haven't heard a word from BetJoint apologizing or making good to this player.

[jason]

There is a blog to follow BetJoint's theft. Below is the link.
BetJoint Sportsbook Steals

For those of you who have asked, BetJoint has not done a thing to return the funds, and their manager issued a memo to all customer service staff saying they will get fired if they transfer the call to him when I call.

[VegasDave]

I'm confused...

In their rule it says "You are allowed to bet both sides of the same game or both sides of a total on the same game, PROVIDING THAT IT IS ALWAYS WITH YOUR OWN CASH AND NEVER INCLUDES THE USE OF ANY ‘FREE PLAY’ CREDIT. This rule applies to all straight-action wagers and also any plays that are used in parlays or teasers. For example, if you make a FREE PLAY wager on Team “A” or use Team “A” in a parlay or teaser wager using FREE PLAY credits, you are not allowed to bet Team “B” from that same game or event with either FREE PLAY credits or CASH play. "

The guy then proceeded to bet both sides of the game.

Yes, he bet both with real money, but that doesn't change the fact that he DID break this rule.

How is BetJoint in the wrong here?

[jason]

BetJoint changed the rule since the incident. See above for the original rule, which specifically said the player could bet both sides of the game as much as he wants to "in all instances" if he would put cash on both sides.

[MOST]

BetJoint changed the rule since the incident.

That says it all. The fact that BetJoint changed the rule shows that they were wrong, but they think it looks weak to pay the player. Every poster and SBR - Bill, Justin - weighed in, but they told the players and SBR to get lost. What kind of a book do they want to be?

[JCC]

Every poster and SBR - Bill, Justin - weighed in, but they told the players and SBR to get lost.

This is what kills this book for me. If they won't listen to moderators and players, nothing is to stop them from doing what they want to with your money. They view your money - once you deposit - is theirs, and they'll pay who they want to and keep what they want to. That is the definition of a scam book to me.

[pavyracer]

This is what kills this book for me. If they won't listen to moderators and players, nothing is to stop them from doing what they want to with your money. They view your money - once you deposit - is theirs, and they'll pay who they want to and keep what they want to. That is the definition of a scam book to me.

This could never happen 20 years ago. You show up at their office with your linebacker friends and trash the place if they don't pay, no questions asked. Set their trash on fire if they still refuse.

[fiveteamer]

Why are these guys listed as a C-?

[jason]

Why are these guys listed as a C-?

SBR had promised a significant downgrade, but SBR's primary goal was to have the book return the stolen funds - so I think they gave me some time to try to work something out.

I have tried to contact them via email and phone, but they have basically said to another moderator that they would LOOK WEAK TO PLAYERS in the forums if they own up to their mistake and CHANGE THEIR POSITION. So they have issued a memo to all employees that if they transfer my call to the manager, THEY WILL BE FIRED. I am in the process of contacting SBR - Bill and Justin - with this feedback.

[bettilimbroke999]

BetJoint's a C- , what a shithole, makes you wonder what a site's gotta do to get a D rating

[JCC]

Moonbeam,

If it were otherwise, hell hath no fury like a Justin7 arbitration.

BetJoint blew SBR off - telling SBR and all of its players to go screw themselves.
[I have copies of the emails, if anyone needs to see them.]

They stole $3,626 and said "we are the judge and jury." They issued a memo to their staff that if anyone calls about my money, they are to hang up or else risk being fired. Every player needs to know what BetJoint is capable of and they must be named the scam book that they are.

[bigboydan]

They issued a memo to their staff that if anyone calls about my money, they are to hang up or else risk being fired.

Thats going to the extreme on there part to say the least, especially when they are clearly in the wrong on this particular case.

[fiveteamer]

they are going to pay a steep price for 3k. Who would ever send these clowns money?

[Bill Dozer]

JCC,

BetJoint has credited your account for the $3000. Glad it worked out and glad to see BetJoint cleaning the board! Sometimes these issues have to marinate for a while but it was the right thing to do by you and for business.

[bigboydan]

Glad to hear that they finally realized that they did you unjustly and paid you the funds that you should have received months ago.

[Bullajami]

Nice work SBR!

[SSLP]

I can only speak for myself but I've used BetJoint since they've opened and never had a problem. I've found, in general that most sportsbooks have "strange" rules involving bonus money. I have had situations with bets being cancelled with nearly every sportsbook because I am a big believer in using time zoned parlays and hedging to guarantee a win.

I found a solution to the problem. I NEVER take their free bonus money and I NEVER have that problem. Now I can use the 3 or 4 books who PAY the best and Bet Joint as well as Bet Jamaica / The greek are the best paying. I'm not saying that bet joint is right for their actions here because the parlays were put in fair and square but the whole point of betting is to win and COLLECT. From my 10 years of online gaming experience and my prior 10 years in the casino business...anytime you can avoid the "freebies" you'll have clean transactions.

WHY.. THANK YOU?!!

How long have you been working at BetJoint?

PLEASE TO ALL THE READERS DISREGARD THE TEXT QUOTED ABOVE.

These are liers and con artists.

This is the funniest shill I have seen in a while

[jason]

I post in response to the interest on players' part regarding the resolution of the situation I had with BetJoint. I wanted to put this issue to rest and update everyone on what happened, which SBR has already done on their front page.

I apologize for not responding to people's inquiries over the last few weeks, but I did not want to post until I had clarity on how things were being resolved, which was ongoing for the last several weeks. I had some lengthy conversations with Mark Roberts, who is the owner of BetJoint. While he reiterated BetJoint's view, he made clear that on behalf of his book he wanted to honor the wagers I had made. Mark took the effort to look at the other side of the issue (even though he personally saw things differently), and decided to ensure that there would not be any doubt that an unclear rule would lead to a player losing out. Mark even spent the time to review the exact amount of the winnings on the wagers that should be paid out. In fact, he determined upon recalculation, that BetJoint actually owed me $3,202 from the original wagers and not $3,052 as originally calculated in my SBR post. He sent me the higher correct amount, which I think showed additional integrity on his part.

I must say that this was a very difficult situation. As you know, and as I pointed out in my earlier postings, I was a player who had ONLY the most positive feedback on BetJoint and on Mark in particular - in a time when you have to be so careful about who you play with, they were a new book that was so reliable and welcoming and paid out as fast as I have ever seen since Neteller - I don't know if I ever waited more than 24 hours for actual money in hand (including this past week, when Mark sent me the winnings from the wagers that he agreed to honor in 24 hours or so). Because of all of the positive things I saw at BetJoint, you could understand why I had such trouble seeing how this situation ever happened. But I am very happy that they did what a place like this does, and that is went the extra mile to see to it that no player would be slighted and that they honored their bets completely.

I wanted to share with you this resolution in that I want the entire truth to be out there, and as I'm sure many of you feel, to know that a book is so concerned to make sure its bets are paid and that even unclear situations are resolved is something critical to finding a book you can trust. Mark's effort to get me ALL the money owed in about 1 DAY (just like all previous payouts I had) reminds me of what kind of a place I had been dealing with.

Thanks to SBR and Bill Dozer (and bigboydan) for all of their support, feedback, and assistance throughout this little ordeal. Thanks to all of the SBR posters who took the time to read the facts and weigh in; it meant a lot to have objective people's support. I wish you all the best moving forward. And thanks to Mark and BetJoint for resolving this in a way that I think is fair, but that I understand from their perspective meant going the extra mile for their player.