[mcd6802]

BetEd has confiscated my casino winnings of roughly $4000 on the following accusation:

"You took advantage of a bug in the casino software, which allowed you to play multiple instances of a resumed game. This resulted in being able to multiply your winnings when you had an advantageous hand.

This bug cannot be accidentally exploited; it requires a deliberate effort, and is very simple to prove -- the game history contains an audit trail of the fraud. We can provide evidence to show how you exploited this bug to your benefit."

This is simply false. Upon repeated requests to see one trace of evidence they have so far produced nothing. I have been conveniently locked out of my account for weeks now and have been unable to get access to my own game logs to dispute this. All I did was sit down and play and the software seemed to operate fine. I have made deposits into the casino which I have lost completely. Two or three times I may have lost the connection and had to reopen the window, but I certainly remember no duplication of hands. There was one or two times when my official balance was slow to update on the game screen when I closed out one game to switch to another, but it would always update correctly by logging off then on again. This was never done half way through hands. If I had found a way to exploit the software, why did I not try to make any real money off of it. 98%+ of my winnings I can assure you was on straight through play. BetEd has paid me over $30000 in sportsbook winnings. I am not here to crucify them. I just want my money. After kicking me out of the sportsbook section of their site they continued to email me casino bonus offers and are now looking to recoup some of their money by lies and distortions. I gave them ample warnings before making this post and have notified them so they can respond.

[SBR Lou]

Mcd6802,

Can you please shoot the details over this, along with your account # through our sportsbook complaint form?

[HeeeHAWWWW]

If they say:

"We can provide evidence to show how you exploited this bug to your benefit."


Just quote that back at them until they provide said evidence.

[Thremp]

I would like the "Yes" on "Will randomly stop responding to all communication". Any odds since its a lock. What a scammy thief shop.

[BookieOweMe]

thats gotta suck.

[bigugly]

Betd just seems shady overall. They should decide if they really want to be a B book or not.

[mtneer1212]

This ought to be interesting..... If they do have evidence, do they have any responsibility to pay?

[skrtelfan]

They've pulled this shit before, I remember reading other threads about BetEd confiscation casino winnings, possibly also due to vague "software exploits."

[Albert Pujols]

Betd just seems shady overall. They should decide if they really want to be a B book or not.

My thoughts exactly. They seem to be just one step above Bet US at this point.

[chachi]

My thoughts exactly. They seem to be just one step above Bet US at this point.

hmmm ... are there varying levels of 'in the gutter' ?

[gridiron guru]

dammit, i hope they dont screw me over, i just made a deposit. They are the only book still using ***************

[trixtrix]

at this pt in beted's career, i wouldn't be surprised to see them intentionally alter their software so they cause use that accuse a large casino winner. ed should've been D'd long time ago

[donkdown]

amen thiefs thiefs thiefs

[Sox2010]

wouldn't be the first time. They are a scam book and one to avoid

[bluefish]

What game did you play?

[Justin7]

File a complaint.

If you assume BetED is correct, how much did you receive from the software error? If it was $200, I could see voiding $200, but not all your winnings.

BetED has pulled all sorts of Casino crap before to void winnings. While they have had arguments (meaning it was not outright theft), I thought they owed the players. If BetED can show you exploited a software bug, I would suggest a 3rd party review (SBR?) of all games played, coordinated with a log showing these "exploits". The games exploited would be handled based on equity without the bug.

If these exploits netted the player $500 and they tried to mug you out of $4000, that is a huge foul. On the other hand, if you gained 4k in equity from a repeatedly used software exploit, I would actually agree with BetED's decision this time.

[mtneer1212]

The voice of reason speaks again................ c'mon file a complaint so we can get the truth.

[tommygun]

who cares if the software had a "bug" fix your software dumbasses, you should be still entitled to the money

[mcd6802]

To follow up on my thread, I did file a complaint which was looked into by Justin from SBR. For a quick summation, here are some direct quotes from Justin about his final conclusions:

"I agree that their evidence is inadequate."
"I concluded that they failed to prove their defense -- that their casino malfunctioned."
"Their rating already went down because of this dispute....I think this is a crock."

Pasted below are some key excerpts from the email dialogues I had. The 2nd part is BetEd's official "evidence" of my cheating and following that was my personal response.

An email from me to Justin of SBR:
"BetEd has emailed me saying they submitted proof to you that I cheated. I would like to see it. I did not cheat and anything they have sent you will not change that fact. Sportsbooks do not prevent a player from accessing his own logs and then take a month to submit "evidence" unless it either doctored or deceptive. I knew since posting my complaint that they would hold all the cards as far as to what would be presented. Yet this did not stop me from doing so because I know my own innocence. You might see their evidence, be convinced by it, and then believe that I am just continuing to deny it to maintain some shadow of a doubt in your mind. But it is the other way around. BetEd is the one who is lying and making a fantastical story to cloud up their confiscation of legitimate winnings. Players don't wait long periods of time for a good bonus to deposit, lose the majority of their casino deposits completely, and then go for such relatively small overall wins if they know of a software exploit. For that matter I've never even heard of somebody finding a bug in an online casino and milking it for a profit. Players just assume the software works correctly or, at worst, is rigged against them. I'm not going to open up multiple windows of the same game to test if there is a software error. BetEd has had a serious accusation floating against them for a while. If they were innocent they would have answered it immediately."

BetEd's Official Response:

"As previously mentioned, we've been extremely busy per the start of football. We appreciate your understanding, that our priority is in accommodating our customers and not chasing up fraudulent customers wishes. However, as we've previously mentioned, our goal is to work with you, which is why we've provided details of this customers fraudulent actions.

customer xxxxxxx

Blackjack wager analysis 07/17 - 08/02

25 wagers at $200
13 Wins
4 Pushes
8 Losses

61 wagers at $250
38 Wins (6 BJ)
2 Pushes
23 Losses

8 Wagers at $500 (double $250)
8 Wins
0 Pushes
0 Losses

Overall
57 wins
6 pushes
31 losses

Our stop-loss system alerted us to this customer's action. After investigating this further, we found him to be exploiting a loophole in the game that allowed double-restoration of a hand. These two records are examples of such a fraudulent restoration:

15381057 4534 Black Jack Single 07-17-2010 12:40:01 07-17-2010 12:40:36 $500 $-500 $1000 $2468 $ $0 $ W
Player Bet: 250 Dealer Deal Player cards: 2-Diamonds,A-Hearts Dealer card: 6-Hearts Player Double: 2-Diamonds,A-Hearts,9-Diamonds Player Win - Dealer have: 6-Hearts,7-Clubs,J-Clubs Game Finished
15381063 4546 Black Jack Single 07-17-2010 12:40:01 07-17-2010 12:40:45 $500 $-500 $1000 $2968 $ $0 $ W
Player Bet: 250 Dealer Deal Player cards: 2-Diamonds,A-Hearts Dealer card: 6-Hearts Player Double: 2-Diamonds,A-Hearts,6-Clubs Player Win - Dealer have: 6-Hearts,9-Spades,K-Diamonds Game Finished

The customer had a $0 balance on 7/17, deposited $250, and began to benefit from this technique immediately (the above records are from that day). He continued to benefit from using this technique through 515 hands until he ran up a balance of $4213.00.

Not all of the customer's hands were played in this manner, mostly only higher-value hands ($200 and above). However, after removing the hands that did benefit from this technique, the customer would have had a negative balance.

The customer also won $53 from Jungle Slots during this period, which we are not disputing, though it is likely the customer earned this with fraudulent winnings. No other games were played.

This customer has been correctly paid $39,058.85 for his winnings in the past. However, we do not feel compelled to remit anything further based upon the fraud that was committed. If SBR is insistent, we will pay the customer $53 for his Jungle Slot winnings.

Regards,

Greg"



My response:

"First off if I ever bet $200 more than a few times I would rather be surprised. The $200 wagers they are referring to are most likely $100 wagers which I doubled on. Since players only double down on hands where they have the advantage, a 13-8 record is hardly spectacular. However so much time has passed waiting for BetEd to reveal a game log that my memory conceivably could be off. As far as going 38-23 on $250 wagers I can assure you this is just variance. Remember they are only showing the results on my luckiest deposit and a selective partition of the luckiest part of that deposit. I wouldn't be surprised if the 8-0 record they quoted on "$500" hands are actually built into the 38-23 record. Again doubling hands naturally favor the player and 8-0 runs do happen. Any casino is gonna see a lot of play and some players will just get lucky. Various players hitting wins at low probabilities is virtually certain with the large sample size of play casinos see. Casinos constantly pay out slot jackpots that are vastly harder to win than it is to play blackjack for a long period of time and find a 38-23 run somewhere in the mix. To just quote above average luck as a reason not to pay is absurd. The kicker is that they show logs for a total of 2 hands. As I told you before I lost the connection to the blackjack window once or twice and had to open a new window. If by some miracle when I did so the old game was still in the background and my bet was duplicated incorrectly by the system without me realizing it and I got the vastly minute mathematical advantage of A2 vs 6 (which of all hands I would cheat on putting myself at the risk of being caught and without opening up yet more windows) this is BetEd's fault and not mine. If this was a bug, such an error could just as easily have cost me money. It could easily have cost other players money that was not reported. The very fact that they are reporting this hand proves they don't have a better example. If they did they would have reported a hand where I stood 20 vs 6 or something like that. Heck for all I know the hands they are quoting are from 2 completely different players (they won't let me log in to check). If enough hands get played you see coincidences like identical hole cards. And if you think BetEd was too busy with football to spend just a little time to answer a public allegation against them, then you are way too trusting. All you have to read is the self-serving pretense of credibility they try at the end about paying up a $53 slot win to know that BetEd is spin doctoring here. And where's my huge winning percentage on bets of other sizes?. Or maybe they are just so stupid they think I actually did cheat. Based on the exaggerated football lines they constantly posted (relative to other places) I'll concede it is possible."

[robmpink]

I get that they had a glitch that let you make a bet, escape the game with it still pending, maybe doing something else with the balance. If you a favorable going you could reload to cover or whatever.

I'm not calling you a cheat. I just get that they r saying you could manipulate their system somehow.

[Justin7]

robmpink,

BetEd claimed the player used a glitch. They did not give very convincing evidence of this. I asked to talk to the software developer, and BetEd never got around to making this happen.

If a sportsbook raises a "defense" -- in this case, that the player abused a software error, the sportsbook has the burden of proof. It's not the player's job to prove he did nothing wrong; that's impossible. The sportsbook must clearly prove that the book is justified in confiscating the player's funds. BetEd failed to do so in this dispute.

[Santo]

The glitch seems not that he escaped whilst pending and reused the balance, but rather was somehow able to duplicate the starting position, in this case A2 vs 6 on a subsequent hand by exiting/resuming. Given the two hands are timestamped identically for start time, and 9 seconds apart for finish time, and player and dealer starting hands were identical, this seems plausible.

That said, there is no independent authentication of the logs, and this only proves a bug rather than deliberate wrongdoing on behalf of the player, so you'd expect them to pay and block the game until the developer fixes it.

[pokerplayer22]

I'll never understand why people play online blackjack with this digital software to begin with, but even more, why would you play with a place who is a known stiff should you happen to catch a nice run. This place has been known to do this crap.

There are 2 outcomes when you play blackjack with beted.
1. You lose and dont get paid
2. You win and dont get paid

[jizay]

15381057 4534 Black Jack Single 07-17-2010 12:40:01 07-17-2010 12:40:36 $500 $-500 $1000 $2468 $ $0 $ W
Player Bet: 250 Dealer Deal Player cards: 2-Diamonds,A-Hearts Dealer card: 6-Hearts Player Double: 2-Diamonds,A-Hearts,9-Diamonds Player Win - Dealer have: 6-Hearts,7-Clubs,J-Clubs Game Finished
15381063 4546 Black Jack Single 07-17-2010 12:40:01 07-17-2010 12:40:45 $500 $-500 $1000 $2968 $ $0 $ W
Player Bet: 250 Dealer Deal Player cards: 2-Diamonds,A-Hearts Dealer card: 6-Hearts Player Double: 2-Diamonds,A-Hearts,6-Clubs Player Win - Dealer have: 6-Hearts,9-Spades,K-Diamonds Game Finished

So you didn't remember this duplicated hand and didn't notice the winnings?

[BrianLaverty]

Since people seem to regularly be able to exploit BetEd's software... you would think they would eventually, I duno... FIX IT! This is a book that will pay out, but HATES doing so. One of the fastest books in the Caribbean to limit you... and that says alot.

[sq764]

so basically if they decide they think you cheated, they can say screw you and the player has absolutely no recourse?

[big joe 1212]

1. DO NOT play in online casinos!

2. If you do play in online casinos, do so in very small amounts.

3. If you disregard #1 and #2, at least don't play at BET ED!

[ucbearcats1027]

that is such a crock of shit

[robmpink]

robmpink,

BetEd claimed the player used a glitch. They did not give very convincing evidence of this. I asked to talk to the software developer, and BetEd never got around to making this happen.

If a sportsbook raises a "defense" -- in this case, that the player abused a software error, the sportsbook has the burden of proof. It's not the player's job to prove he did nothing wrong; that's impossible. The sportsbook must clearly prove that the book is justified in confiscating the player's funds. BetEd failed to do so in this dispute.

Santos response clarifies it for me. I do agree BetEd does have a lot of casino issues. I don't know the software they use, but remember it well. I wasn't impressed. I know there are other books that use that same crap software. Can this so called glitch be replicated now or they say they patched the hole?

[Birre]

So the player won 31 units in 94 hands.

Given a 0.5% house edge on blackjack this is a 1 chance in 795 to have such result which isn't that rare.

If a (+-) +3SD result is taking advantage of a bug or whatever other lie they tell then the casino manager should study his maths again and see that this is a possible result.

They clearly provide no proof at all. The players winning % is normal and having once the same starting hands (not the same suits) isn't that rare also.

[Santo]

You're overlooking what they actually claim. What are the odds of the two identical starting hands (and dealer starting card) within 9 seconds?