[dynamite140]

Hey everyone. I wanted to know is sports betting pretty much a waste of time if you don't have a decent bankroll? I dropped probably $12k lifetime in these few years but it was due to me chasing and betting much more than i should be in my account.

I hear many people say if you want to make even some decent amount of money, you need to have a minimum $20,000 bankroll otherwise sports betting is a waste of time and doing other things such as even poker would be more useful. Does this statement hold true? I heard 2-3 people mentioned something like this and now i seem to be feel that does make a ton of sense. I mean theres lot of people who deposit $500 or $1000 for football season etc but even if they bet $50 a game which is way too much for a $500 bankroll, doesn't that do nothing for you? I mean if you are someone who just wants to win $300 or so a month, certainly that is possible. But if you want to make even lets just say $1000 a month betting sports, wouldn't you need a big bankroll for this? I blew my bankroll of $6000 2 times and both times it was either due to betting more than i should and chasing.

But right now I'm thinking, even someone with a $2000 bankroll would have a tough time making a decent amount of money. I mean even if a $2000 bankroll player bets $200 a game, there is a good chance he would go bust. And even if he does really well during the whole football season, what is the most he can really win assuming he doesn't hit those 7 team and up parlays? I see many people here bet $5 and $10 on a game and I'm just thinking to myself, are you guys just betting these amounts because you want action on it? Personally, i would think its a waste of time because you can't make any money from it unless you just want to win $50 that week if you know what i mean. I mean i am pretty sure investing in stocks might be a better option??

What i don't understand are those players that just put $100 in their accounts. I mean are these guys betting $5, $10 a game or something ? Even betting $10 a game is too high if you deposit $100. Because i don't even know what you can do by betting this small and you cannot even make withdraws this small and if you do, you are going to get charged a big fee to withdraw.

I'm thinking that back a few years ago when i deposited $6k twice and thought hey thats a ton of money in my account for gambling,but now i know it was really small because i was betting minimum $200 per game and betting few games at a time. And now thinking about it, even if i won those bets, if i won 10 games and lost 9, i probably be up $100 and thats assuming i have reduced juice. I would probably be up $30 if i used -110 lines.

But to those people who have just $5000 in your account and bet the NFL. How much money would you want to make in the NFL season by the time season is over? Lets say this player just bets $100 per game and never bet more than that. 2 percent would be pretty safe to prevent from going bust. Then he went sometime like 50-40 for the entire year which is 55.5 percent which is great. But assuming this player has reduced juice for -105, he would only be up $800 for the entire 5 months. Even if he bet $200 per game, thats only $1600 profit in 5 months! I don't know about you but $1600 profit in 5 months is not that much if you spend every sunday for 5 months watching the NFL.

But if this player had a $20000 bankroll and was betting $500 per game, he would still only be up $4000 in 5 months. I mean that is just $800 per month. That is good income if you want supplemental income but does anyone here think its still pointless because you won't make much money? Now if you are reckless and bet over you head or hit some big parlay, then sure you might have a big cash but doing those things would greatly increase your chance of going bust and that is the worst thing that can happen.

Anyone have thoughts or opinions? I kind of wanted to quit but then had this urge to want to win back my $12000 from the last few years that was mostly from MLB and some from football. But now thinking about it, I think probably the most i can make is $2000 maybe in a 5 month NFL season with a $5000 bankroll i just deposited?

[albo gator]

I think that wise bankroll management is basically to have a bet size that wins you 1% to 3% of your bankroll. Conservative estimates would say that in the long run a +EV player probably has a maximum edge of 5%. If a person were to use a full 100% Kelly Criterion for bankroll sizing then they should bet to win 5% of their bankroll. Most people who use Kelly modify it and use some fractional Kelly. Often 50% Kelly is the size they use. Therefore, they would bet to win around 2.5% of their bankroll which falls into my initial statement of 1 to 3%. This would fall dead in line with your next to last paragraph where you said a 20K bankroll bets to win $500 per game. So to figure out what your estimated income would be you simply need to know the number of bets you expect to have and using a 5% edge you should find your expected profit. I think your estimate of 4000 in 5 months is pretty accurate. Ask any investor if they would take 25% return for an entire year and they would be happy. Let's say you make 4000 per 6 months on a 20K bankroll. That would give you a balance of 24K at the end of 6 months and then 30K at the end of the next 6 month period (24K x 1.25=30K). So for the year you would make 10K profit on a 20K bankroll. 50% annual return is off the charts good in the investment world. Keep that up for a couple more years and you are rolling in the dough. THE KEY IS PATIENCE. IF YOU WANT TO DO THIS FOR A LIVING YOU NEED TO HAVE A LARGE ENOUGH BANKROLL, A GOOD SYSTEM, LINE SHOPPING, AND PATIENCE. IT IS HARD TO SAY WHICH OF THE 4 IS MOST IMPORTANT BUT HAVING THOSE ALL WILL EVENTUALLY GET YOU WHERE YOU NEED TO BE. ASSUMING YOU HAVE A LITTLE GOOD LUCK ALONG THE WAY

[Hareeba!]

Hey everyone. I wanted to know is sports betting pretty much a waste of time if you don't have a decent bankroll? I dropped probably $12k lifetime in these few years but it was due to me chasing and betting much more than i should be in my account.

I hear many people say if you want to make even some decent amount of money, you need to have a minimum $20,000 bankroll otherwise sports betting is a waste of time and doing other things such as even poker would be more useful. Does this statement hold true? I heard 2-3 people mentioned something like this and now i seem to be feel that does make a ton of sense. I mean theres lot of people who deposit $500 or $1000 for football season etc but even if they bet $50 a game which is way too much for a $500 bankroll, doesn't that do nothing for you? I mean if you are someone who just wants to win $300 or so a month, certainly that is possible. But if you want to make even lets just say $1000 a month betting sports, wouldn't you need a big bankroll for this? I blew my bankroll of $6000 2 times and both times it was either due to betting more than i should and chasing.

But right now I'm thinking, even someone with a $2000 bankroll would have a tough time making a decent amount of money. I mean even if a $2000 bankroll player bets $200 a game, there is a good chance he would go bust. And even if he does really well during the whole football season, what is the most he can really win assuming he doesn't hit those 7 team and up parlays? I see many people here bet $5 and $10 on a game and I'm just thinking to myself, are you guys just betting these amounts because you want action on it? Personally, i would think its a waste of time because you can't make any money from it unless you just want to win $50 that week if you know what i mean. I mean i am pretty sure investing in stocks might be a better option??

What i don't understand are those players that just put $100 in their accounts. I mean are these guys betting $5, $10 a game or something ? Even betting $10 a game is too high if you deposit $100. Because i don't even know what you can do by betting this small and you cannot even make withdraws this small and if you do, you are going to get charged a big fee to withdraw.

I'm thinking that back a few years ago when i deposited $6k twice and thought hey thats a ton of money in my account for gambling,but now i know it was really small because i was betting minimum $200 per game and betting few games at a time. And now thinking about it, even if i won those bets, if i won 10 games and lost 9, i probably be up $100 and thats assuming i have reduced juice. I would probably be up $30 if i used -110 lines.

But to those people who have just $5000 in your account and bet the NFL. How much money would you want to make in the NFL season by the time season is over? Lets say this player just bets $100 per game and never bet more than that. 2 percent would be pretty safe to prevent from going bust. Then he went sometime like 50-40 for the entire year which is 55.5 percent which is great. But assuming this player has reduced juice for -105, he would only be up $800 for the entire 5 months. Even if he bet $200 per game, thats only $1600 profit in 5 months! I don't know about you but $1600 profit in 5 months is not that much if you spend every sunday for 5 months watching the NFL.

But if this player had a $20000 bankroll and was betting $500 per game, he would still only be up $4000 in 5 months. I mean that is just $800 per month. That is good income if you want supplemental income but does anyone here think its still pointless because you won't make much money? Now if you are reckless and bet over you head or hit some big parlay, then sure you might have a big cash but doing those things would greatly increase your chance of going bust and that is the worst thing that can happen.

Anyone have thoughts or opinions? I kind of wanted to quit but then had this urge to want to win back my $12000 from the last few years that was mostly from MLB and some from football. But now thinking about it, I think probably the most i can make is $2000 maybe in a 5 month NFL season with a $5000 bankroll i just deposited?

Of course it isn't a waste of time.
You have to start somewhere if you want to build a bankroll off which you can make a living.
But it seems to me that you have been far too impatient and over-betting relative to your bankroll.
For a start loss chasing is the very worst thing you can do. A guaranteed path to disaster.
You're dreaming if you think you can make a living off a $20K bankroll.
If that's your goal you should be betting smaller and being satisfied with smaller profits building your bankroll. Don't withdraw and spend your profits until you reach the level you need.
Aim to grow it to 2 or 2.5 times the annual income you want to make.
Hoping to make $2k off a $5k bankroll in just an NFL season is too optimistic. You might do it or even surpass it easily but you can't expect to. There's more chance you'll lose part of even all of it in the attempt.
There are numerous books out there to teach proper staking and money management. I suggest you learn a lot more about the game if you are aiming to be a serious punter before you attempt to win back your past losses.

[OldSchool75]

Some good answers in this thread.

[Johnpoints]

Some good answers in this thread.

I agree. I wish I had something to add to it . I'd say the concept of money management finally clicked for me two and a half years ago and now it's my goal to keep learning as much as I can about different betting techniques.

[Darkside Magick]

the most important thing is can you find winners....everything else falls in place after that!!! too many people worry about how much bankroll a person have and all that when the basic thing is can you find winners.

[Hareeba!]

the most important thing is can you find winners....everything else falls in place after that!!! too many people worry about how much bankroll a person have and all that when the basic thing is can you find winners.

Of course finding winners is important but there have been many smart handicappers who've failed miserably on the punt because of poor staking and money management

In a contest I'd back the sharp handicapper to lose his bankroll before the savvy punter

[Darkside Magick]

Of course finding winners is important but there have been many smart handicappers who've failed miserably on the punt because of poor staking and money management

In a contest I'd back the sharp handicapper to lose his bankroll before the savvy punter

i professionally disagree


if the sharp handicapper keep his bets the same and find winners.. he will grow his bankroll til he die! yes money management is important ...but FINDING winners should be priority number 1. people should learn to do that then you will not have 12k disasters.

[astrodomer]

There is no question though if yoiu have a large bankroll your chances increase greatly!

[Dark Horse]

If you're bad, a big bankroll will hurt you.
If you're good, a small bankroll will limit you.

Become good first.

[Peep]

There is no question though if yoiu have a large bankroll your chances increase greatly!

Makes no difference if you start with $500 or 5 million, you will get to where you are going. Water will seek it's level.

[peeiempee]

I'm not going to talk about the figures or someone is gonna say this a semi veiled post or some bullshit like that. But I started off with like a $2000 bankroll and doing pretty well. Just manage your money, enjoy the hot streaks and grind through the cold streak and you will be ok. Money is money, doesn't matter if it's $500 you win in a season or $5000.

[Hareeba!]

i professionally disagree


if the sharp handicapper keep his bets the same and find winners.. he will grow his bankroll til he die! yes money management is important ...but FINDING winners should be priority number 1. people should learn to do that then you will not have 12k disasters.

my point was that the problem is without sound staking and money management plans he won't

a mate of mine is an excellent racing form analyst .. I take his advice ... he's a lifetime loser .. I win

[mtneer1212]

It depends on your goal. If you are just looking to add some excitement to the TV game by placing a few bucks on it, then you do not need a large bankroll to enjoy yourself; if you are looking to supplement your income by doing a lot of research and actual handicapping, then yes, you needs a decent bankroll.

[Raven66]

This question from dynamite140, applies to the Stock Market, not Sports Gambling.

[chunnnn2010]

why you must have $20k for sportsbetting? to me & some small players, $2000 is already enought.

[Dark Horse]

Just to give this a little different spin. Sports betting is just one form of investing. There are others. The housing market collapsed. That's good. Houses are dirt cheap these days. And interest rates are extremely low. With just 10K down, and a reasonable income, you can buy a nice house in many parts of the country. Five years down the road you may be able to sell that house for 100K profit or more. There are not many sports bettors who could turn that 10K into 100K in the same period. And they certainly couldn't do it without hard work, let alone doing almost nothing, as in real estate. If you want a BR that you can live off through sports betting, you don't have to earn it through sports betting. Real estate is in a rare phase of opportunity. People make fortunes at times like these.

[Baddieko]

Its a waste of time if you think you can win by placing many bets on same stake per day. Usually 10% or more juice per game eats u over the season, even if u hit 60% of the sports handicaps. The only way is to be sharp and hit 70% and above. Usually those who won really big had short-term trusted insider info per year about few games and wagered all-in for each bet. With 50k deposit 3-5 game streak is enough for a year to close shop. Many events are fixed though , its about getting the reliable info that give winners and surprising them for the first few games.

Of course in this kind of gambling in order to win, need to win at bigger stake and lose at smaller stakes. Handicaps are 50-50 and usually bookmaker will be sharp, so dont think about beating them at 70% of the games.

[Darkside Magick]

Its a waste of time if you think you can win by placing many bets on same stake per day. Usually 10% or more juice per game eats u over the season, even if u hit 60% of the sports handicaps. The only way is to be sharp and hit 70% and above. Usually those who won really big had short-term trusted insider info per year about few games and wagered all-in for each bet. With 50k deposit 3-5 game streak is enough for a year to close shop. Many events are fixed though , its about getting the reliable info that give winners and surprising them for the first few games.

Of course in this kind of gambling in order to win, need to win at bigger stake and lose at smaller stakes. Handicaps are 50-50 and usually bookmaker will be sharp, so dont think about beating them at 70% of the games.

here is a little math

to turn a 10k bankroll into 100k in a year , you need to avg 4.72% a week flat betting per bankroll

so if you bet 2% of bankroll , you need 2.36 units a week and then cycle upward!

wash...rinse...repeat!!!!!!!!

based on 50 weeks....one should always take 2 weeks off for vacation..lol

[Arilou]

It is not a waste of time to bet with a small bankroll because that is how you learn. There is no substitute for real world experience, for betting real games in real time for real money however small. It is no different than a poker player starting out at 0.05c/0.10c at PokerStars and working his way up one leg at a time. Your small bankroll allows you to shop around more, to exploit weak books and bonus structures, to fly under the radar. When you're ready to go mano-a-mano with mature markets and fire bullets into central lines that experience will be well worth it, and if you can't grow your bankroll organically that's a good sign you are not ready.

However if you're thinking about sports betting as a way to make a living in the short term, yes it is a waste of time if you don't have critical mass and that goes double if you're going to use proper bankroll management.

[jonny]

Wanna be a millionaire? just gotta pick winnaz!!

And ask dark horse on this one, wanna reach your rollover quicker? Better deposit more!!

[xKMACKx]

I'm a college student so I don't have all that much money to work with. I am happy making $15-$40 dollar bets and getting gas money, books, food etc. That's the way I look at it. When I get a good paying job following school than I will look at increasing my bankroll. I probably could increase it right now with the money I have but the last think I want to do is blow tuition money away for future years. If I win I'm happy, If I lose it wont hurt me financially that much so I'm just fine making small bets for now.

[jonny]

Wanna be a millionaire? just gotta pick winnaz!!

And ask dark horse on this one, wanna reach your rollover quicker? Better deposit more!!

oops, I meant dukejohn.

[moonbeam]

I started with a Euro 3500 bankroll 10 years ago. That was a pain in the ass but it works.
I cannot imagine if that would still work these days

[Climate]

The important thing is to make money, build your bankroll, and stay disciplined.

[bigugly]

I think it comes down to if you have anything better to be doing. Most people seem to have a lot of time to kill. Me, I never get bored. Wish there were 30 hours in a day...

[Odessa]

As Arilou mentioned above, making living from betting sports is very unrealistic, just enjoy your 500 to 5,000 annual profit and don't quit your day job.

[trixtrix]

this is hard question to answer as it assumed others will know what your personal utility curve is, but lets put that aside make the assumption you're simply asking if sportsbetting will be able to grow your br most effectively assuming your current br is 20k, and other factors such as effort and volatility are ignored.

it's still a question you need to answer yourself: assuming you have 20k, do you have a more optimal method to grow my br than sportsbetting, you can only answer that if you know the expected roi of all methods you can utilize the br such as sportsbetting, stock investing, currency trading, poker.. etc etc

in any case, all your questions you seem to like to aleve yourself the responsibility of making your own decisions, in which case i'd just recommend a broker and purchase some mutual funds

[RickySteve]

I started with $1000 and have made my living ever since.