Betfair robs 100s of players with "Happy Hour" casino promo (Video)

**lawnmower** · 12-01-10, 06:16 AM

Because one day the restaurant has a personnel change and now the guys that used to do fish now do steak.

Now you are sick too.

**andywend** · 12-01-10, 06:49 AM

Andywend: What you describe is correct. But that is EXACTLY what the T&Cs said you could do. Thats what made it a stupid promo. Note that the T&Cs were up for about 3 days before the event, and many people (including me) checked with BF that the bonus was unlimited and money could be recycled. We all got a big resounding yes.

Lawnmower, you seem like a reasonable individual and here is my take on the whole thing:

By offering this bonus promotions, BetFair was trying to accomplish 2 things:
1. Give back something to their customers:
2. Hoping this promotion would lead to increased revenues in the future

When a book offers any kind of bonus promotion, there will always be people out there trying to abuse the bonus. This is how the term "bonus whore" came into existence.

Even if you checked with BetFair about the T & C's, the person you spoke with is simply a customer service rep.

Depositing money, getting a 50% bonus, playing the lowest vig game in the casino, withdrawing money after 10X rollover, depositing money again, rinse and repeat.

This appears to be exactly what was done and I wouldn't be surprised if many people made boatloads of money doing this with very little risk due to the 50% bonus.

In my opinion, BetFair needs to honor the terms of their promotion but the bonus abusers should NOT benefit from their questionable actions. Therefore, all the money that BetFair confiscated from the bonus abuser accounts should be given to charity.

This way, BetFair pays for their mistake and the bonus abusers don't gain either.

**noyb** · 12-01-10, 06:51 AM

Originally posted by lawnmower

Because one day the restaurant has a personnel change and now the guys that used to do fish now do steak.

a better solution would be to just boot the guys who order the fish altogether from the restaurant.

**austin** · 12-01-10, 06:59 AM

Originally posted by andywend

Lawnmower, you seem like a reasonable individual and here is my take on the whole thing:

By offering this bonus promotions, BetFair was trying to accomplish 2 things:
1. Give back something to their customers:
2. Hoping this promotion would lead to increased revenues in the future

When a book offers any kind of bonus promotion, there will always be people out there trying to abuse the bonus. This is how the term "bonus whore" came into existence.

Even if you checked with BetFair about the T & C's, the person you spoke with is simply a customer service rep.

Depositing money, getting a 50% bonus, playing the lowest vig game in the casino, withdrawing money after 10X rollover, depositing money again, rinse and repeat.

This appears to be exactly what was done and I wouldn't be surprised if many people made boatloads of money doing this with very little risk due to the 50% bonus.

In my opinion, BetFair needs to honor the terms of their promotion but the bonus abusers should NOT benefit from their questionable actions. Therefore, all the money that BetFair confiscated from the bonus abuser accounts should be given to charity.

This way, BetFair pays for their mistake and the bonus abusers don't gain either.

very good point. but how do you differentiate 'fair' customers from 'abusers'? by the amount they recycled doing the promotion?

**vitalyo** · 12-01-10, 08:01 AM

Originally posted by austin

very good point. but how do you differentiate 'fair' customers from 'abusers'? by the amount they recycled doing the promotion?

In this particular case I don't think you have to differentiate fair customers from abusers .
Betfair fvcked up with this promo . So it's not the costumers fault for been invited to take a shot at them . it's not like they had never heard of "bonus whores" before

.That's why there T&C to minimize the damage every book has them and you have to agree to them . Betfair should just pay every one and fire the guy who came up with this brilliant Promo . And that would be the end of the story. Instead they locked accounts, reversed transactions , then they are trying to extort the money by setting account to negative balance . On top of that they are threatening their costumers. Then they try to alter T&C

.

GL.

**alka07** · 12-01-10, 09:05 AM

ahhhh casino i get ton of offers with cashback bonus in casino 100% bonus 200% and its tempting bot i can hold myself

**wrongturn** · 12-01-10, 09:07 AM

The steak eating customers are keep coming because they have been getting rebate from beef producers for each steak meal at this place for many many years. Although they are kind of concerned about what happens on fish eating customers, never the less, the benefit still way out-weight the risk .

**vitalyo** · 12-01-10, 09:14 AM

Originally posted by wrongturn

The steak eating customers are keep coming because they have been getting rebate from beef producers for each steak meal at this place for many many years. Although they are kind of concerned about what happens on fish eating customers, never the less, the benefit still way out-weight the risk .

And what if your girlfriend likes the fish but you prefer the stake ?

LOL .

**andywend** · 12-01-10, 09:25 AM

very good point. but how do you differentiate 'fair' customers from 'abusers'? by the amount they recycled doing the promotion?

Austin, its pretty easy to spot the abusers as bonus whores are always blatant in their actions.

If a player deposited into the casino to get the maximum bonus, rolled over the money 10X and took it out immediately after satisfying the rollover and then re-deposited and took another bonus, then they are a bonus abuser. Those that did it multiple times should have their accounts banned.

Even if it was technically legal based on the T&C's, they knew full well what they were doing was shady.

In this particular case I don't think you have to differentiate fair customers from abusers .
Betfair fvcked up with this promo . So it's not the costumers fault for been invited to take a shot at them . it's not like they had never heard of "bonus whores" before

.That's why there T&C to minimize the damage every book has them and you have to agree to them . Betfair should just pay every one and fire the guy who came up with this brilliant Promo . And that would be the end of the story.

I disagree completely with VITALYO. The customers who took clear shots at BetFair do NOT deserve to be financially rewarded for their actions.

I believe BetFair did the right thing by locking the accounts of the bonus abusers and I would have done exactly the same thing if I was operating the site. BetFair knows by locking the accounts, those customers are going to have to call in and explain their actions and BetFair will lay into them for THEFT. If there were no issues prior to this, then BetFair should keep the bonuses and give the customers a stern warning. However, I would bet that the majority of these bonus abusers have long histories of it and their accounts should be permanently locked.

**skrtelfan** · 12-01-10, 10:09 AM

How in the world is following the terms and conditions "abuse?" By following the terms of the t&c, you are abiding by the stated rules. Following the rules cannot be considered "abuse."

**Thremp** · 12-01-10, 11:29 AM

Pay and ban. You should have no right to retroactively seize money won.

**yokspot** · 12-01-10, 03:43 PM

One thing surprising me a bit here is the SBR stance.

About two years ago I had occasion to enlist Justin's help on a matter with Interwetten casino which was very similar in essence, ie. a rather mad promo where the stated rules were followed but we were robbed of winnings. Bill, who helped me successfully with a previous matter, put Justin on my case. Justin said it was in the casino "T & C" to void "mistakes", so I was SOL.

Now, Betfair doing just the same thing in essence are on the receiving end of a video diatribe about them "robbing hundreds of customers".

What gives? Why the inconsistency? Why is Betfair's post-promo smash & grab such an issue, when the other was a case of, hey dude, handle it?

**Justin7** · 12-01-10, 04:12 PM

Originally posted by yokspot

One thing surprising me a bit here is the SBR stance.

About two years ago I had occasion to enlist Justin's help on a matter with Interwetten casino which was very similar in essence, ie. a rather mad promo where the stated rules were followed but we were robbed of winnings. Bill, who helped me successfully with a previous matter, put Justin on my case. Justin said it was in the casino "T & C" to void "mistakes", so I was SOL.

Now, Betfair doing just the same thing in essence are on the receiving end of a video diatribe about them "robbing hundreds of customers".

What gives? Why the inconsistency? Why is Betfair's post-promo smash & grab such an issue, when the other was a case of, hey dude, handle it?

I don't remember your dispute, and cannot easily find it in archives (I deal with literally 1000's of disputes.) If you like, send me our old email dialogues, and I can take a look at it.

**odysseus** · 12-01-10, 05:15 PM

Originally posted by andywend

Austin, its pretty easy to spot the abusers as bonus whores are always blatant in their actions.

If a player deposited into the casino to get the maximum bonus, rolled over the money 10X and took it out immediately after satisfying the rollover and then re-deposited and took another bonus, then they are a bonus abuser. Those that did it multiple times should have their accounts banned.

Even if it was technically legal based on the T&C's, they knew full well what they were doing was shady.I disagree completely with VITALYO. The customers who took clear shots at BetFair do NOT deserve to be financially rewarded for their actions.

I believe BetFair did the right thing by locking the accounts of the bonus abusers and I would have done exactly the same thing if I was operating the site. BetFair knows by locking the accounts, those customers are going to have to call in and explain their actions and BetFair will lay into them for THEFT. If there were no issues prior to this, then BetFair should keep the bonuses and give the customers a stern warning. However, I would bet that the majority of these bonus abusers have long histories of it and their accounts should be permanently locked.

Theft! Boll**ks!
Being a bonus abuser is not against any law, so long as they stick to the terms and conditions of any offer, they should be allowed their winnings, it's natural justice.
These books have total control of the T&C of any offer, no one is asking them or forcing tham to provide these promotions, they do it hoping mugs (apologies if this term offends anyone) will play and lose money.
They offer an inducement to play, they should take anything that happens so long as it falls within the T&C on the chin.

**ThaddeusB** · 12-01-10, 05:23 PM

The mentality of some people in this thread baffles me. If "taking advantage" of a +EV casino offer means that you are cheating the casino and deserve to have your funds confiscated, then I guess everyone who knowingly makes a +EV sports bet is also a crook. Ridiculous.

**Dark Horse** · 12-01-10, 05:23 PM

Originally posted by vitalyo

In this particular case I don't think you have to differentiate fair customers from abusers .
Betfair fvcked up with this promo . So it's not the costumers fault for been invited to take a shot at them . it's not like they had never heard of "bonus whores" before

.That's why there T&C to minimize the damage every book has them and you have to agree to them . Betfair should just pay every one and fire the guy who came up with this brilliant Promo . And that would be the end of the story. Instead they locked accounts, reversed transactions , then they are trying to extort the money by setting account to negative balance . On top of that they are threatening their costumers. Then they try to alter T&C

.

GL.

Exactly. When it so chooses, this book plays by its own rules, and the people defending its fraudulent actions are providing or extending the umbrella. Why? Because they have not experienced that side of BF, and therefore don't want to rock the boat? 'Everybody for himself'.

**lawnmower** · 12-01-10, 05:24 PM

Originally posted by andywend

Lawnmower, you seem like a reasonable individual and here is my take on the whole thing:

By offering this bonus promotions, BetFair was trying to accomplish 2 things:
1. Give back something to their customers:
2. Hoping this promotion would lead to increased revenues in the future

When a book offers any kind of bonus promotion, there will always be people out there trying to abuse the bonus. This is how the term "bonus whore" came into existence.

Even if you checked with BetFair about the T & C's, the person you spoke with is simply a customer service rep.

Depositing money, getting a 50% bonus, playing the lowest vig game in the casino, withdrawing money after 10X rollover, depositing money again, rinse and repeat.

This appears to be exactly what was done and I wouldn't be surprised if many people made boatloads of money doing this with very little risk due to the 50% bonus.

In my opinion, BetFair needs to honor the terms of their promotion but the bonus abusers should NOT benefit from their questionable actions. Therefore, all the money that BetFair confiscated from the bonus abuser accounts should be given to charity.

This way, BetFair pays for their mistake and the bonus abusers don't gain either.

Thanks for the complement!
I am a regular player in the betfair casino, played on 11 different day in november before the promo on the 13th. Yes I did what it said, deposit, complete WR, rince and repeat. I played Casino Hold'em at £10 a hand - which is not low variance like some who did Roulette either £1 a spin or cover all numbers.

I have asked and asked but no-one at BF will tell me what rule/T&C I have broken.

If it was easy to demonstrate that I (and all the others) had done something wrong, then they would simply say. But they can't. So they are just being arseholes and keeping my money in the hope I will go away.

**trixtrix** · 12-01-10, 08:18 PM

this dispute is simple: if betfair don't think they did anything wrong, why would they retroactively and secretly CHANGE their promotion terms? it's like the old adage if you don't believe you committed fraud, why would you need to cover/hide your tracks/paperwork?

anyone arguing to the contrary simply doesn't understand that betfair has already implicitly admitted they made a mistake

**purecarnagge** · 12-01-10, 08:57 PM

downgrade should be given... they are not acting in good faith. just robbing people blind.

**Fishhead** · 12-01-10, 09:00 PM

.....and some want to put BETFAIR in the same category as MATCHBOOK

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA

**Hareeba!** · 12-02-10, 12:04 AM

Originally posted by Fishhead

.....and some want to put BETFAIR in the same category as MATCHBOOK

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA

I'd never consider putting Betfair in the same category as Matchbook .... until Matchbook offer more sports and options, have any sort of liquidity on non US sports and allow me to withdraw more than $2500 at a time.

And I still haven't forgiven MB for cancelling two MLB winners after the games had commenced. In almost a decade BF has never done anything like that to me.

**Santo** · 12-03-10, 06:15 AM

Matchbook are far below Betfair, even with this case and Matchbook's advantages.

**Monte** · 12-03-10, 07:30 AM

Originally posted by Santo

Matchbook are far below Betfair, even with this case and Matchbook's advantages.

Not for U.S. sports

You guys shouldn't forget that this is mainly an american forum.
I bet a lot of football lately, and i would never want to trade MB for Betfair (disliking BF anyway, but iam looking at this from a neutral point of view now).

**HedgeHog** · 12-03-10, 08:34 AM

Sounds like Betfair doesn't play fair.

**Santo** · 12-03-10, 08:43 AM

Betfair's in-running markets often see more volume than Matchbook, even for US sports.

**wrongturn** · 12-03-10, 09:51 AM

Originally posted by Santo

Betfair's in-running markets often see more volume than Matchbook, even for US sports.

Matchbook in-game volume is indeed low, even for MNF games. Perhaps European bettors are more interest in trading, while American bettors are more interested in watching and enjoying the games, for US sports, of course.

**Hareeba!** · 12-03-10, 02:49 PM

Originally posted by wrongturn

Matchbook in-game volume is indeed low, even for MNF games. Perhaps European bettors are more interest in trading, while American bettors are more interested in watching and enjoying the games, for US sports, of course.

US punters are relatively unsophisticated when it comes to online betting, particularly trading and in-play.

Non US punters have had the advantage of exchange betting for a decade now whilst those in the US have had to cope with all their government's impediments to gambling.

I suspect that less than half of American gamblers know anything at all about, let alone have even heard of exchanges.

**lawnmower** · 12-03-10, 06:51 PM

Gone nicley of topic here. I'm Sure BetFair are pleased!

**moonbeam** · 12-03-10, 07:58 PM

A lot of SBR A rated books robbs thousands of Dollars from the players and SBR never ever was interested in this

Why is SBR that fixed on betfair?

5Dimes robs me $3000 and SBR wasn´t interested. Not enough with this, every Phoenix complaint dont interested you.

**Santo** · 12-04-10, 12:28 AM

Originally posted by lawnmower

Gone nicley of topic here. I'm Sure BetFair are pleased!

Slightly off topic yes, but the relevance of the casino decisions to sportsbook funds is a valid topic I think.

**Justin7** · 12-04-10, 01:18 AM

moonbeam,

If 5dimes robbed you of 3k, SBR would be very interested. Did you start a thread on this?

**lukahh** · 12-06-10, 02:12 AM

Originally posted by Hareeba!

And I still haven't forgiven MB for cancelling two MLB winners after the games had commenced. In almost a decade BF has never done anything like that to me.

hmm. why would MB cancel the bet if they are an exchange? or is this an indication that they bet their own money on the opposite?

**Hareeba!** · 12-06-10, 02:23 AM

Originally posted by lukahh

hmm. why would MB cancel the bet if they are an exchange? or is this an indication that they bet their own money on the opposite?

they screwed up and left offers up after they had fallen over and came back on line

they weren't bad lines but they still cancelled the bets but after the games had started

**acw** · 12-06-10, 07:05 PM

What do Ladbrokes, Willy Hilly, Stan James, Victor Chandler AND BetFair have in common?

**eightballer41** · 12-06-10, 07:29 PM

this is pathetic...