[Winner_13]

Ive heard so much about BetPhoenix the last 3 weeks.

heard some1 is on 21 days and counting

It all boils down to:
are they paying out or not?

[Santo]

They seem to be largely caught up in the last 10 days or so.

[SBR Lou]

BetPhoenix has stated all Moneybookers accounts are caught up. They're expecting a wire to hit their Neteller account this week as well for those that are backed up through that method.

Write to help@sportsbookreview.com if you are in need of assistance.

[BET THE HOOK]

I said this was coming and begged everyone to listen months ago.

[katstale]

BetPhoenix has stated all Moneybookers accounts are caught up. They're expecting a wire to hit their Neteller account this week as well for those that are backed up through that method.

Write to help@sportsbookreview.com if you are in need of assistance.

Never has been a problem for players willing to be a little flexible and don't have some agenda. OP, if you are confused at this forum, try looking at the date of arrival of a particular poster. Genreally speaking, longer they have been around--more likley you are to get some meaningful information. If they have been here a short time with alot of posts to their credit--typically a sign of people who have nothing better to do and little real to say. GL to you.

Example: Santa Joined: 09-08-05posts 1986

[moonbeam]

Never has been a problem for players willing to be a little flexible and don't have some agenda. OP, if you are confused at this forum, try looking at the date of arrival of a particular poster. Genreally speaking, longer they have been around--more likley you are to get some meaningful information. If they have been here a short time with alot of posts to their credit--typically a sign of people who have nothing better to do and little real to say. GL to you.

Example: Santa Joined: 09-08-05posts 1986

you are kidding katstale.

I have no problem supporting books who deserves it.

Phoenix is definatly not one of this books

[Thremp]

They are fukkin awful.

They are not flexible and basically toolish assholes who are too ****ing stupid to even acknowledge their own ignorance.

[KGambler]

They pay very quickly by **, although the max withdrawal by that method is $850 and they will charge you a high fee. Their website claims that they have check withdrawals, but this is currently not true. Also, their website claims checks should arrive in 3-4 business days, but that is also not true.

Here is my current situation:

Thursday May 6th - I request a cashout by check.

Tuesday May 18th - I ask about my cashout on live chat. They tell me some BS about IT is working on their system and all checks will go out next week

Monday May 24th - I ask about the status of my cashout on live chat. They tell me that they are having problems with checks and I should switch to a wire transfer. They say the wire transfer will take 3-4 days.

Friday May 28th - I contact them (live chat) at noon EST to inquire when the wire transfer will hit my bank account. They tell me that the accounting department is not open yet and to try back in 30 minutes to an hour.

After more than an hour I check back. I am told that accounting is already looking into it, and can they please email me? I say OK, please send me an email.

8:30 PM NO EMAIL, so I again contact them on live chat. They tell me that accounting is gone for the weekend and that no one can help me until Monday.

Monday May 31st - I ask about the status of my wire transfer on live chat. I am told that they need my bank's "transit number". It turns out that is the ABA number, which I had already supplied. In the past month I have received wire transfers from a D-rated sportsbook and also from someone in Norway, and in neither case did I have any problems. I supplied BP with all of the relevant info, taken directly from my bank's website FAQ, where it gives ALL of the info anyone would need to send a wire transfer.

I asked if they have check withdrawals working yet and was told no. They then agreed to do 3 seperate **/** transfers (no fee). So hopefully I will get paid this week...

[KGambler]

They are fukkin awful.

They are not flexible and basically toolish assholes who are too ****ing stupid to even acknowledge their own ignorance.

They are also thieves and liars.

BetPhoenix is hands down the worst book I have ever dealt with. I have had several bad experiences in the last ten years with online books, but BP takes the cake and it's not close.

[michael777]

They are also thieves and liars.

BetPhoenix is hands down the worst book I have ever dealt with. I have had several bad experiences in the last ten years with online books, but BP takes the cake and it's not close.

i could not agree more K,i have bet with about 40 books over the last 10 years and bp is by far the worst

[KGambler]

you are kidding katstale.

I have no problem supporting books who deserves it.

Phoenix is definatly not one of this books

Katstale often comes into these Bet Phoenix threads to act as an apologist and spread propoganda and misinformation which is positive for BP. For example, in a thread where a guy is talking about how BP straight robbed him of thousands of dollars (not me, a different victim, and one who eventually got paid 100%), Katstale pops in to grandiously claim that ANYONE having a problem with BP need only contact Richard in order to get any legitimate claim expeditiously cleared up.

The funny thing is, I have a legitimate claim against BP and Richard ignores my emails and refuses to take my calls... As someone who is being robbed, it's frustrating to see another gambler pop into these threads to spout off at the mouth and make false claims in defense of the thieves at BetPhoenix.

[katstale]

OP, and others, all i can do is report what my experience has been. The issues I have had with Phoenix were minimal compared to many books I have dealt with. Not everything has gone my way there, but if anyone has been "robbed" by Phoenix--I think Lou or Justin or even Bill should come in this thread and let everyone know the truth. Everyone who has been here a while can go back and see Richard payng people with bogus claims.

I am not here to hold people's hands. Phoenix means one thing to me and one thing only. I have 105 and they have opinions. That is all i am asking for besides getting paid. I have never doubted Phoenix ability to pay me. Richard has been a standup guy when I needed him. I repeat again, I play with delay, limits and no bonus and am glad to get my money in there every day.

But by all means, if you can find better numbers elsewhere--you should play there. Good luck with that.

[Thremp]

I requested a withdrawal via Neteller 2 weeks ago. The time period has past. The amount has not been deducted and paid to me. This is a slow pay/no pay. No questions about it.

If you advertise a time period, and methods... you should pay. If you don't, its "slow paying".

Anyone who denies this is a fukking idiot

[katstale]

I requested a withdrawal via Neteller 2 weeks ago. The time period has past. The amount has not been deducted and paid to me. This is a slow pay/no pay. No questions about it.

If you advertise a time period, and methods... you should pay. If you don't, its "slow paying".

Anyone who denies this is a fukking idiot

Not gonna argue this and i wish i could be paid NT also, but when they point blank told me it was gonna be a while before they could pay me that way I just went to plan B and got paid that way. My roll is enough that normally I just want to be paid. Usually doesn't need to be tomorrow. Having been several times in the no pay situation, slow pay is generally still ok for me.

[Thremp]

It'd be nice if they actually did that. However, that has never been the case. They rather just never contact you and hope you forget.

Regardless, Dozer is so deep on BP's e-rooster with marketing bux he can't bring his wallet to downgrade them for payout issues. Then again SBR has taken the stance in the past that a book can payout via whatever method they want and you just have to eat it. (Oh wait... that was only with their favorite child from before BOL.)

[katstale]

Shemp, I know u r a bottomline guy like I am. I asked them point blank if they could pay me NT. i didn't wait to see if it was going to be successful. Now BOL? lolol different story totally--they extorted money from players with SBR approval (except for Justin)

[JoeVig]

... I have a legitimate claim against BP ...

KG,
Have you filed a complaint with SBR to see they can help you out?

[pokerplayer22]

It'd be nice if they actually did that. However, that has never been the case. They rather just never contact you and hope you forget.

Regardless, Dozer is so deep on BP's e-rooster with marketing bux he can't bring his wallet to downgrade them for payout issues. Then again SBR has taken the stance in the past that a book can payout via whatever method they want and you just have to eat it. (Oh wait... that was only with their favorite child from before BOL.)

This is what blows my mind about these ridiculous SBR ratings. Isnt no paying and slow paying people the number 1 reason a book shluld be downgraded??? Ive seen 200 people complain about being no payed and slow payed just on this forum alone. What is the delay with the downgrade??? Can a mod please answer this for me??

[moonbeam]

Katstale often comes into these Bet Phoenix threads to act as an apologist and spread propoganda and misinformation which is positive for BP. For example, in a thread where a guy is talking about how BP straight robbed him of thousands of dollars (not me, a different victim, and one who eventually got paid 100%), Katstale pops in to grandiously claim that ANYONE having a problem with BP need only contact Richard in order to get any legitimate claim expeditiously cleared up.

The funny thing is, I have a legitimate claim against BP and Richard ignores my emails and refuses to take my calls... As someone who is being robbed, it's frustrating to see another gambler pop into these threads to spout off at the mouth and make false claims in defense of the thieves at BetPhoenix.

Richard is very good in his role trying to be the "nice guy" of Phoenix.

But of course he isn´t

[Thremp]

Shemp, I know u r a bottomline guy like I am. I asked them point blank if they could pay me NT. i didn't wait to see if it was going to be successful. Now BOL? lolol different story totally--they extorted money from players with SBR approval (except for Justin)

Like I can expect an honest answer from those idiots. I asked for a wire, was denied. Now maybe they'll pay. I'm sure someone will get my complaint and sugar coat it or ignore it or who knows.

[Hareeba!]

Having been several times in the no pay situation, slow pay is generally still ok for me.

Well the way I see it slow pay is a warning sign and certainly not ok with me.
Why are they slow paying?
Frequently it will be that they simply don't have enough money to pay their customers (hardly rocket science)
Why do they not have enough money to pay their customers?
Probably because their business is under-funded and they rely on customers' deposits to top up their shortfall.
If so that's known as being insolvent (again, hardly rocket science)
Sending to or leaving money in an insolvent business is not a smart thing to do.
At the end of the day those still in will lose their money. And that's not rocket science either.
Good luck

[Thremp]

Well the way I see it slow pay is a warning sign and certainly not ok with me. Why are they slow paying? Frequently it will be that they simply don't have enough money to pay their customers (hardly rocket science) Why do they not have enough money to pay their customers? Probably because their business is under-funded and they rely on customers' deposits to top up their shortfall. If so that's known as being insolvent (again, hardly rocket science) Sending to or leaving money in an insolvent business is not a smart thing to do. At the end of the day those still in will lose their money. And that's not rocket science either. Good luck

Brilliant logic. I'll prop bet you that I'll get every dime I request even money dollar per dollar.

[moonbeam]

Phoenix needs 22 days to pay via moneybookers. That´s an fact.

The worst european books needs 4 days to pay via moneybookers.

And it´s very sick SBR still supporting such a crap book like Phoenix with a B+ rating

Its all about advertising I guess

[Hareeba!]

Brilliant logic. I'll prop bet you that I'll get every dime I request even money dollar per dollar.

you may well
I don't know the answers to those questions in this particular case, though I do have my suspicions
however if you are still in when the ship sinks you'll be a loser, so best to jump before that happens

what makes you so sure?
do you know why they are so slow paying?

whatever the reason they should be blacklisted until they are capable of demonstrating that they can pay all promptly

[Thremp]

Because I'm not a fool. And I want your money.

[Hareeba!]

Because I'm not a fool. And I want your money.

do you ever give a straight answer to a question?

[Thremp]

do you ever give a straight answer to a question?

This would be "put up or shut up" as you so eloquently like to put it.

[KGambler]

KG,
Have you filed a complaint with SBR to see they can help you out?

I have filed a complaint. You can read about it here:

http://www.sportsbookreview.com/forum/sportsbook...oken-into.html

SBR is too busy counting BP's money to offer much help.

[Hareeba!]

This would be "put up or shut up" as you so eloquently like to put it.

typically avoiding answering the question

[yomillionaire]

Guys, I requested 4,000 out of betphoenix and so far, they have sent me 2 moneygrams for 850.00. Then they told me that they would send me a check in 8-10 days.... yesterday they told me that check is still down, need to wire me some funds. Just sent them my wire info so i am hopeful they pay another 2k via that method.

[Thremp]

typically avoiding answering the question

Far better than the nonsense you spout. I offered to back up my views with five figs.

The idea that every book that slowpays is insolvent is retarded. Completely and totally. Jazette is insolvent? lol. Bodog? lololololol.

[Hareeba!]

Far better than the nonsense you spout. I offered to back up my views with five figs.

The idea that every book that slowpays is insolvent is retarded. Completely and totally. Jazette is insolvent? lol. Bodog? lololololol.

Okay, so I've posed my questions and reasoning.
I'd simply like you to tell me where that logic is incorrect and why so that we can have a sensible debate about it without resorting to insults.
Is that too much to ask?

I don't know anything about Jazette.
I wasn't aware Bodog was slow playing. They never were when I used them.
I didn't say every book which slow paid was insolvent.
I merely said it was worth asking the question and monitoring their behaviour.
What reasons apart from insolvency would you put forward for other than temporary slow paying?

[KGambler]

Cliff notes:

1. I log into my account expecting to see a balance of about $3K available and $4K pending. Instead, I am shocked to see $8 available and $7K pending. I look at pending wagers and see a bunch of $500 parlays that I did not place. Many of the parlays consist entirely of games which have not started yet.

2. I immediately report to BP that my account has been hacked and that I did not place those bets. I also file a complaint with SBR.

3. SBR reviews these facts:

- I am the 4th person to post on SBR that their account has been hacked, two of whom have been reimbursed in full by BP

- None of us 4 know each other and we live on at least two different continents

- All 4 of us have only had our BP accounts hacked, and none of our other accounts (email, financial, poker, sportsbetting, etc.)

- Bet Phoenix has steadfastly claimed that my own IP address and ONLY my IP address was used to log in (this is an obvious lie, but it's what BP told SBR)

- BP is well known for having terrible security and software. They used to show the users password in the URL. All of their CS employees can see every customers' password in the database.

- BP has not provided any evidence, such as IP logs or the MAC addresses of computers used to log in

And then concludes the following:

"After viewing more facts on the players' situation, it's clear that there's some password liability in both cases. We're looking at the eight third party sites where the same password(s) were used, and trying to help spot where the security breach may have been."

In other words, SBR reaches the astonishing conclusion that instead of BP having a problem, there must be some third part site which was breached. And this led to our BP (and only our BP) accounts being hacked. And somehow only the customers' actual IP addresses showed up as having logged in. I guess they never heard of Occam's Razor. I guess they believe in the most amazing of coincidences.

Most people would have concluded that BP has serious security issues, that BP knows they have serious security issues but doesn't want to let that fact get out, and that BP is lying about seeing only the customers' IP addresses as having logged in. This is the simplest and by far the most reasonable explanation as to how 4 different people have had their BP, and ONLY their BP, accounts broken into and their money maliciously lost by the hacker.

4. After waiting for the parlays to START, and then to wind up as losers, BP tells me that the bets can not be cancelled because they were all placed from my IP address

5. After telling this IP address lie for so long, BP then tells SBR that our accounts were indeed hacked, supposedly by some guy who posted a malicious link on 2+2 Poker Forum (only problem is the other victim doesn't post there and says he maybe visited it a few times)

6. I then don't hear anything from anyone, don't receive any data or evidence, am given no indication as to what will happen with my account, and of course don't receive any refund


That's the short version of my nightmare with BetPhoenix. I signed up for BetPhoenix due to their B+ rating. Obviously, in retrospect, it was extremely foolish to put much stock in an SBR rating. I had seen how good some of BP's lines were because I use the SBR live odds page to line shop. Due to their B+ rating, I thought it was a safe place to play. BIG MISTAKE.

[Thremp]

Are you actually trying to offer advice in a thread without knowing what other reasons there would be for slowpaying other than insolvency?

Are you aware of anything in the offshore industry?

[Hareeba!]

Are you actually trying to offer advice in a thread without knowing what other reasons there would be for slowpaying other than insolvency?

Are you aware of anything in the offshore industry?

I am aware there can be reasons other than insolvency
But those would be only short term in almost all cases
If it persists then no, I don't think there is likely to be another reason

Perhaps our problem is that we have different interpretations of the word?

Insolvency means the inability to pay one's debts when the fall due.
So prima facie any business which isn't capable of paying within normal terms is insolvent.