[eavesdropper]

This is a bit different than the other reported cases where the accounts were hacked and sports or casino bets were placed. In short, I requested my first payout (close to max) to Moneybookers by using the live chat. After a while, a scam artist imposing as me requested a withdrawal to an email address that differs from my real email address by just one letter. Note that this case was "sorted out", in the sense that they paid the stolen amount, but no further explanation about what happened. Currently, they are slow-paying my final payout. It’s been close to 2 months since they paid me last time. No alternative methods have been offered.

Here are the transcripts and full story.

Jan 19 - Request to Moneybookers for 2500 EUR:

info: Please wait for a site operator to respond.
info: You are now chatting with 'Paula'
Paula: Welcome, how may I assist you?
I: Hello
I: I'd like to request a withdrawal via Moneybookers... however i'm not able to select any payment method on the cashier page
Paula: let me check your account
I: and the amounts in cashier are shown in USD while my account is in EUR
Paula: for how much would you like the request?
I: 2500 EUR
Paula: can you please confirm your moneybookers acoount
I: ********@*******.***
I: its the same i used to deposit with
Paula: thank you
Paula: i will place the request
I: Ok, thank you. when can I expect the transfer ?
Paula: in the next 48 hours
I: OK
Paula: Is there anything else that I can assist you with?
I: That was it, thanks. Bye
info: Your chat transcript will be sent to ********@*******.*** at the end of your chat.

Jan 22 - I ask after my wd since it was promised within 48h. Was informed the new policy of 5-7 business days. I actually came here and posted about this change of policy on this forum.

Jan 27 - Still no funds in MB, although I saw them deducted from my BP account the day before. I go and ask about it:

info: Please wait for a site operator to respond.
info: You are now chatting with 'Alex'
Alex: Hi ****
I: Hello
Alex: how can I assist you today ?
I: I'd like to ask about my moneybookers withdrawal. I requested it 8 days ago, I can see the funds have been deducted from my account. But I havent received the funds
Alex: let me check with accounting please hold
Alex: you have checked your moneybookers account and the funds are not in the account ?
Alex: what's your moneybookers account ?
I: ********@*******.***
I: yes, I have checked my account
Alex: this is the transaction number
Alex: 227917668
Alex: for the moneybookers pay out
Alex: accounting reports that it was paid
Alex: to ********6@*******.***
I: there is no number 6 in my email address
Alex: we have reported 6 on the email address you register in the account.
I: when I made the request, I confirmed my email address, ********@*******.***, this is also the address I used to deposit with, and registered
Alex: I am checking with accounting
I: I'm sure I did not use number 6 in the address when I registered. You have even sent me emails to my correct address..
Alex: that's what we are trying to clarify right now.
Alex: Please hold I will give you the feedback as soon as possible
I: ..and i have the chat transcript of the withdrawal request in which i confirm the address
Alex: accounting dept has place a request for moneybookers to refund the transaction we sent to the incorrect address. As soon as we have a response from moneybookers we will email you back and process the pay out to the correct address ********@*******.***
I: honestly, you should just process my request right now. I see no valid reason for waiting any response
Alex: we need to process a fraud investigation first before any other pay out request is process. That is the reason why you need wait.
I: fraud? You mistakenly sent the funds to a wrong address
Alex: yes we need to conduct a fraud investigation because its weird that the account has an email with a 6 and your correct address is with out a 6
Alex: also moneybookers does have an account with a 6
Alex: otherwise the pay out would not have been able to be process.
Alex: you did request the pay out with the correct address.
I: and I also registered and deposited with my correct address. How do you explain the fact that you have sent me promotion emails to my correct address ?
I: This is ridiculous
Alex: please just have a little patience to clear this issue and we will email you back as soon as we have a resolution, that is the reason why we need time to conduct a investigation.
I: Your typing error should not affect me anyway
I: I'm expecting to hear from you ASAP
Alex: we will get back to you as soon as possible
Alex: can I be of any further assistance ?
info: Your chat transcript will be sent to ********@*******.*** at the end of your chat.
I: thanks.

After this chat, I went to the cashier page to see my details. You can click ‘edit’ to see what’s on their system by default. They had the correct email on file. So I thought this was just an innovative reason not to pay.

Jan 29 - Well, just look at the transcript below. I request to speak with Drew because I briefly talked with him earlier and he said to contact back in 1h. In short: they show me transcripts where an imposter/scam artist acting as me requests a withdrawal to an email address that differs from my real email by just one letter. The amount is also different. Still BP had gone ahead and paid the amount from my original request to this email address provided by some imposter.

info: Please wait for a site operator to respond.
info: You are now chatting with 'Paula'
Paula: Welcome, how may I assist you?
I: Hi, can I talk to Drew please
Paula: just a asec
info: Please wait while I transfer the chat to 'Drew'.
info: You are now chatting with 'Drew'
I: Hi Drew, any news on my withdrawal ?
Drew: Not yet. We have accounting looking into it
Drew: Okay apparently they sent the money already to the email address you requested on chat (******6@*******.***) so the funds have been sent and should be there.
Drew: Can you please check using that email
I: That is not my email, I don't have a 6 in my email address
Drew: That is the email address you requested it sent to
I: no I didn't
I: You can check the chat transcript
Drew: I am doing so now
Drew: 1 of the chat transcripts are as follows
Drew: 05:32:42]
Drew: info: Please wait for a site operator to respond.
Drew: [05:32:55]
Drew: info: You are now chatting with 'Francisco'
Drew: [05:33:14]
Drew: My_full_name: Hi I want to make a withdraw from my account
Drew: [05:33:15]
Drew: Francisco: Good Morning
Drew: [05:33:39]
Drew: Francisco: Can I have your account/pin number please?
Drew: [05:33:47]
Drew: My_full_name: My_PIN
Drew: [05:36:29]
Drew: Francisco: One moment please, let me check.
Drew: [05:38:06]
Drew: Francisco: may i have the method that you would like to receive the funds
Drew: [05:38:15]
Drew: My_full_name: moneybookers
Drew: [05:38:22]
Drew: Francisco: and the amount that you wish to receive
Drew: [05:38:31]
Drew: My_full_name: 2000EUR
Drew: [05:39:07]
Drew: My_full_name: Use this email ********6@*******.***
Drew: [05:41:54]
Drew: Francisco: your withdraw request will be process by the management department in the morning
Drew: [05:42:06]
Drew: My_full_name: Thank you
Drew: another is as follows
Drew: [07:39:52]
Drew: info: Please wait for a site operator to respond.
Drew: [07:41:52]
Drew: info: All operators are currently assisting others. Thanks for your patience. An operator will be with you shortly.
Drew: [07:42:03]
Drew: info: You are now chatting with 'April'
Drew: [07:42:14]
Drew: My_full_name: Hello
Drew: [07:42:16]
Drew: April: Hi this is April, how can I help you?
Drew: [07:42:21]
Drew: My_full_name: what Is happening with my withdraw request
Drew: [07:42:26]
Drew: My_full_name: when I will receive it
Drew: [07:43:08]
Drew: April: ok what happens is that we are expiriencing a delay in Money Bookers withdrawal, when request takes 24 to 48 hours, currently it could take up to 3 weeks, you can make sure we are doing our best to have it done as soon as possible, we apologize for the inconvenience
Drew: [07:43:34]
Drew: My_full_name: To which email you will send
Drew: [07:44:08]
Drew: My_full_name: Please send it to ********6@*******.***
Drew: [07:44:10]
Drew: My_full_name: ok ?
Drew: [07:44:11]
Drew: April: the e-mail that I have on file is ********6@*******.***
Drew: [07:45:36]
Drew: My_full_name: ok thank you, i will wait
Drew: [07:46:14]
Drew: April: Thanks in advance for all your help
I: WHAT?! That is not me!
Drew: That is what we have on file.
I: How can that be even possible? To request to another Moneybookers address, different that was used to deposit with
I: Those are so fake.
Drew: I am still looking into it right now
Drew: Please be patient.
I: unbelievable..
I: the amount is different as well
I: You don't have my original request ?
Drew: Yes sir that is what we are going over.
I: Funny, how come April says: Thanks in advance for all your help, isn't this the clients line ? LOL so funny
I: Paula was the operator that I was talking to when I requested the withdrawal
Drew: Hello this is Phil
I: Hello
Drew: I am the manager and I am looking into the matter
I: This indeed seems like some sort of a scam
Drew: please give me some time to go to accounting and see what the problem is please
Drew: indeed
Drew: I am pilling all transcripts
Drew: all Ip addreses
Drew: your passwords and e mails
I: OK
Drew: also waiting on information from Moneybookers.com
Drew: so please give me some time and I will do my best to make this right
Drew: my e mail is phil@betphoenix.com and my ext. 2305
Drew: can I send you an e mail or would you rather I call you?
I: either way, but you could just email me. Going bed soon, my timezone is GMT+2
Drew: I understand and thank you for being patient
I: Could you email me at the end of the day? what you found out
Drew: I sure will
I: Ok, thank you for your help
info: Your chat transcript will be sent to ********@*******.*** at the end of your chat.
Drew: thank you Sir

I think there is something really strange especially in the second chat transcript that they quoted. It is also interesting, that this would happen at the same time as I requested my first withdrawal (AND around the same time the casino complaints started to show up here).

Jan 30 - I did not hear back from Phil. I email him to inform that they can close my account to avoid further misuse (it was open as usual and still is) and that I won't be using their services anymore, and want to withdraw my remaining balance as well. I also comment about this whole issue being a huge security problem for them and how this should not even be possible (someone to wd to another MB address than was used at depositing). I also tell him wanting to communicate only through him from now on because it seemed like a rogue employee might be involved.

Feb 1 - They surprisingly pay me the original request of 2500 EUR. No explanations or conclusions from their "fraud investigation", only apologizing for the delay.

Mar 2 - Payment to MB.

Since then, I’ve gotten no replies or stupid excuses one being "Also there was a question as to what e mail address are we sending to this time? ", which I thought was clearly an insult towards me (isn't it like suggesting that it was me all along trying to cheat them). The CS is useless only telling how they will be paying the next week etc.

Stay away..

[AimingHigh]

I can't believe Bet Phoenix paid the imposter in the first place. Crazy stuff. Moneybookers rules say that the withdrawal *must* go back to the account used to deposit. (Despite this, XXXX have paid my e-mail addy, which isn't my account!, more than once!!). Good that you got your money back. If Bet Phoenix had refused to reimburse you, I'm pretty certain that Moneybookers would have made them. Perhaps that's why they rolled over so quickly in your case?

[Chuck Sims]

This is all too common at Bet Phoenix. More security issues. Money disappearing from players accounts.

Serious question: What kind of money does it take per month for this negative stuff to be kept off the front page at SBR? And the B+ rating which is laughable.

[RichardGeorge]

Its very odd that the only security issue problems seem to be with the betphoenix brand of books.

I've never read or heard anyone say that they have these kind of problems with ANY other book....

[SBR Lou]

eavesdropper,

Can you submit a sportsbook complaint form through SBR?

[jboy4]

I played there right before all this stuff started happening and was going to continue, but I dont see how I could now. They call me everyday trying to give me some sort of bonus. I dont like when books call all the time. Shows me they need business. You dont see betjamaica, 5 dimes, intertops, bodog, etc etc etc calling for business.

[katstale]

First of all, Cris and many books will ring you to death if you don't put a stop to it.

Second, and I have said this over and over, if you have a legit beef with Phoenix group--you ask for Richard and calmly lay out your case. I have yet to see an instance where he did not solve or make it right. They can't always pay me in my most desired way, but they always pay and often get creative in doing it. In my top 5 books for the last year and a must have book for line shoppers.

[jboy4]

Well, Cris doesnt take American action. In my experience, I have never had books call me off the hook like that. The ones I mentioned before absolutely do not and when I could play with pinnacle they didnt either. Why take the chance with betphoenix and all the negative posts we have seen in the last few months. No thanks.

[Peep]

After a while, a scam artist imposing as me requested a withdrawal to an email address that differs from my real email address by just one letter. Note that this case was "sorted out", in the sense that they paid the stolen amount, but no further explanation about what happened

Uh, no.

I do not believe this story.

A person would have to have gotten an e-mail address AND sent phony ID to Moneybookers to verify the information, all within a matter of minutes ("after a while")? And BP would have verified the name on the account and it would have been....yours?

BP may be lax, stupid, whatever. But this smells like customer scam originated to me.

[eavesdropper]

Uh, no.

I do not believe this story.

A person would have to have gotten an e-mail address AND sent phony ID to Moneybookers to verify the information, all within a matter of minutes ("after a while")? And BP would have verified the name on the account and it would have been....yours?

BP may be lax, stupid, whatever. But this smells like customer scam originated to me.

Well, you don't have to believe it. "After a while" was based on my impression. I don't know the exact date on which the imposter made the request. I only know that I played at Betphoenix from the start of the NBA season and thought they were a great out with -105 juice, and this was the first payout request that I made. Then the problems started. Surely, it is possible that the imposter made his request before I requested the payout.

[KGambler]

Second, and I have said this over and over, if you have a legit beef with Phoenix group--you ask for Richard and calmly lay out your case.

This is a bald faced lie. Richard has ignored all of my emails.

I can't wait until they **** you.

[KGambler]

"when I will receive it"

"To which email you will send"


This is how Spanish speakers tend to speak English (based upon my own wife).

Something is rotten in Costa Rica.

[Peep]

No, I don't "have to believe it".

And I don't.

No one would try setting up a Moneybookers one letter off of yours to get your money out of Betpheonix. It just wouldn't work, to many checks and balances with account numbers, names etc.

I will take "unhappy former employee" for $100 Alex.

[tltaylor89]

Richard dosent even post on the boards anymore this should tell you something.

[Chuck Sims]

"This is a bald faced lie. Richard has ignored all of my emails."

Any updates?

[Justin7]

Richard dosent even post on the boards anymore this should tell you something.

No Sportsbook should ever post. In the long-run, it will hurt them more than it will help.

[flyingillini]

No Sportsbook should ever post. In the long-run, it will hurt them more than it will help.

This is something I completely agree with. I think in the long-run it can't do any good for them. They can read and monitor the boards all the want but stay away from posting. To each their own though.

[Naz18]

No Sportsbook should ever post. In the long-run, it will hurt them more than it will help.

He's always posting at Covers

[Rollins08]

I believe this 100%.

[Raleigh77]

I like Bet Phoenix.

[Champi]

Here i want to post 3 lies from BetPhoenix and i will make a proof if Justin wanna defend them again
First-MOneyBookers cashouts took 7-10days-Day 10 is near to end
Second-On the site i see Fees for ** -FREE-after i request ** they told me i should pay between 20 and 65$
Third-On the site i see max transaction with ** is 950$-But they told me that max is 850$
ANy comments and suggestions will be appreciated when i will get my money or betPhoenix will follow bet911?

[rookie]

Second, and I have said this over and over, if you have a legit beef with Phoenix group--you ask for Richard and calmly lay out your case. I have yet to see an instance where he did not solve or make it right. They can't always pay me in my most desired way, but they always pay and often get creative in doing it. In my top 5 books for the last year and a must have book for line shoppers.

These are serious system/process problems. Contacting Richard (or SBR or anyone else) is not a long term solution. Security issues will always outweigh benefits of line shopping (anyway, a lot of bettors just want to bet).

BP is a relatively new book and it's still using the same system as other offshore books where you need to give internet password to customer service agents. They don't even have a feature to change the password.

[1tarheelfan]

First of all, Cris and many books will ring you to death if you don't put a stop to it.

Second, and I have said this over and over, if you have a legit beef with Phoenix group--you ask for Richard and calmly lay out your case. I have yet to see an instance where he did not solve or make it right. They can't always pay me in my most desired way, but they always pay and often get creative in doing it. In my top 5 books for the last year and a must have book for line shoppers.

you are right katman about cris cold calling,but i would trust bookmaker,cris,and betdsi rather than bet phoneix.long jevity

[eavesdropper]

Ok, I was just paid the final installment of my balance. From Jan 19 to May 31, around 7k EUR in total. At Pinny, it takes 15 minutes

[Chuck Sims]

4 1/2 months to finally get paid from Bet Phoenix. As long as they pay SBR on time, their B+ rating is safe.