1. #1
    Skurwol
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    Orbit paid out 2k euros without my knowledge to an account known only to them

    24.07.21 I have ordered a payout of 500 from Orbit exchange via BetInAsia. After 2 days of requesting a withdrawal, I contacted their support via chat asking why the withdrawal waiting time takes so long. I received information that only this time it will take a little longer.

    The next day I logged into my Orbit account and saw that my account balance was 0, there was a payout in the history of all my funds on the exchange. I thought they were just wrong and instead of 500 euros they paid out the whole money, but in my neteller account I did not find any receipts.

    I logged in to the mail and read the message that my account was completely blocked because illegal activity was detected on it.

    There are at least a few questions.
    Is it legal to withdraw funds without my consent?
    The money in my account was won when betting with people where they ended up?
    How do I recover them?

    I attach screenshots to the message.
    [url=https://ibb.co/SX34XJD][/url

    https://ibb.co/PCTVgBz
    https://ibb.co/Lkn2vX8

  2. #2
    Optional
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    Who sent you the email? OrbitX or Betinasia?

    What illegal activity did they allege?
    175 pts

    3-QUESTION
    SBR TRIVIA WINNER 09/16/2021

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    donation 02/15/2021

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  3. #3
    Alfie White
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    From what I know, BIA has main wallet which is used for transactions in and out and then from there they send funds to (or from) betting platforms you use via their services. Can you login to that account and see if there is any details there?

    Subsequently, it is completely out of the question that they issue withdrawal without notifying you prior to it, you must know where are your funds at every single given moment.

    As for your bets, with those bets it is hard to assume what is your full betting history - while these bets look legit, we would have to look in full betting activity if you are willing to share it to see if there is any proof of their allegations.

    @Opti,
    I OPs images, you can see that BIA said his account was flagged for funds passing.

  4. #4
    SportsBettor74
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    I have viewed the images and the allegation against the OP is "funds passing".

    An example of funds passing would be where A puts up some ridiculous line on the Betfair site (for example X +10 when the real line might be X - 20) and the X + 10 is immediately snapped up by B. Later X wins the game comfortably and the X + 10 bet wins.

    This would be an example of funds passing from A to B.

    I remember maybe a year ago being a bit nervous about this idea of funds passing: If A makes a mistake on Betfair and posts X + 10 (when really X is the favourite and he meant to post X - 10) and you see it and snap it up - later Betfair could accuse you of "funds passing" when in fact all you did was take advantage of someone's mistaken post on Betfair. It is really rare to see someone make a mistake like this on Betfair and post a bad line - but it does happen. When it happens I get nervous about taking it as I don't want to get accused of "funds passing" because some stranger made a mistake on Betfair.

    Here is a worked example:

    France V Czech Republic Olympics Basketball today: France is a huge favourite. If A wanted, he could post France +35.5 at odds of 5.0 on Betfair right now. That would be a shoe-in and whoever takes it has just made that money. If A and B had an arrangement where A posts it and B takes it straight away then A has "funds passed" to B. Obviously they pay the commission (3% or 5% or whatever) to execute this funds passing transaction. If they are money laundering then perhaps this is a small % price to pay.

    This is what the OP is being accused of.

    My point is that people make mistakes on Betfair where they meant to post Czech Republic +35 (for example) but they make a mistake and post France +35. You want to snap that up as it is a lock but you don't want Betfair to accuse you of funds passing because you took advantage of someone else's mistake.

    Question for the OP: Did you have a scenario like this in your OrbitX account? Did you find some line which was clearly wrong and you snapped it up? If so, this could explain the accusation of "funds passing" against you.
    Last edited by SportsBettor74; 07-28-21 at 07:00 AM.

  5. #5
    Alfie White
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    Exactly what I said, we need full list of bets to see if everything is as OP says it is. Regardless of that, BIA cannot make ANY withdrawals to 3rd party Neteller account without any notification - please login to your main BIA wallet and see if there is any information on the payment.

    inb4 jjgold "bRoKeRS aRe StEAlErs" post and littleshillona "BroKerSTorM BeSt FoR OrBitX, ASk fOr ChLAUdIa MAnaGEr BesT RaTE OMG" posts
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  6. #6
    Skurwol
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    Who sent you the email? OrbitX or Betinasia?

    What illegal activity did they allege?

    Betinasia

    I can't get an answer to this question.

    https://ibb.co/XsZNtdM
    https://ibb.co/s1cS4yQ

    From what I know, BIA has main wallet which is used for transactions in and out and then from there they send funds to (or from) betting platforms you use via their services. Can you login to that account and see if there is any details there?
    That's what a BIA wallet looks like. But when I try to sign in, I get a message that my account doesn't exist as if it never existed.

    As for your bets, with those bets it is hard to assume what is your full betting history - while these bets look legit, we would have to look in full betting activity if you are willing to share it to see if there is any proof of their allegations.
    I'll take screenshots of all my bets soon.

    @SportsBettor74

    Your post may explain a lot, because At least a few times I took advantage of someone's mistake, but with the people I made a bet I was connected only by this bet and nothing else.
    Could this be a reason to close my account completely and seize all my funds?

  7. #7
    SportsBettor74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skurwol View Post

    Betinasia

    I can't get an answer to this question.

    https://ibb.co/XsZNtdM
    https://ibb.co/s1cS4yQ



    That's what a BIA wallet looks like. But when I try to sign in, I get a message that my account doesn't exist as if it never existed.



    I'll take screenshots of all my bets soon.

    @SportsBettor74

    Your post may explain a lot, because At least a few times I took advantage of someone's mistake, but with the people I made a bet I was connected only by this bet and nothing else.
    Could this be a reason to close my account completely and seize all my funds?
    Firstly - you should not say "I can't get an answer to this question". You have the answer in black and white from your secreenshots. You have been accused of "funds passing".

    If your story is 100% legit ("
    At least a few times I took advantage of someone's mistake, but with the people I made a bet I was connected only by this bet and nothing else") then this is actually the Betfair nightmare I have been afraid of for some time.

    The other possible way to funds pass is: A puts on a ridiculous line that is terrible value - for example you put up X - 10 when the real line is X + 10. No-one would take this line as it will always lose. BUT - your partner B takes this line. So that is an example of B passing funds to A.

    Did you ever do this? Put up a terrible line that no-one should take but then a sucker (B) took the line and thereby passed you funds?

    "
    I took advantage of someone's mistake" - give 2 concrete examples - the sport, the teams, the line you took advantage of, the correct line. We need this detail to give a better opinion on your case.


    Note: this is already suspicious - I have been using Betfair for 10 years and in all this time I have seen maybe 10 or 20 examples total of an "error" (usually mistaken reverse line) that I have been able to take advantage of and get a virtual lock on that position. In addition - you have to act VERY quickly when you see an error like this or some other smart person will snap it up quickly. So the fact that you have had a "few times" where you have spotted an error AND been able to take it - given your account with OrbitX is quite new - is quite suspicious.

    Before you give the actual examples - please state here the SUMS involved in the wagers. For example - if the position was worth 100 Euros I kind of doubt that would be funds passing / money laundering as the amount is so small. If it was 20k then we might be talking turkey.
    Last edited by SportsBettor74; 07-28-21 at 11:48 AM.
    Points Awarded:

    Alfie White gave SportsBettor74 1 Betpoint(s) for this post.


  8. #8
    littlekona
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    Nice work Sportsbettor! you cracked the case getting OP to admit publicly "I took advantage of someone's mistake" and multiple times at that. OP just playing the dumb card and not very good at that. The Thread tiltle to is misleading as they confiscated funds for fund passing not sent to some unknown person. OP knows exacly what what happened here

  9. #9
    Skurwol
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    Firstly - you should not say "I can't get an answer to this question". You have the answer in black and white from your secreenshots. You have been accused of "funds passing".
    Yes, but I don't see any details there. So far, it sounds more like an excuse.

    If your story is 100% legit ("At least a few times I took advantage of someone's mistake, but with the people I made a bet I was connected only by this bet and nothing else") then this is actually the Betfair nightmare I have been afraid of for some time.
    I read on the forum that many people had a similar problem. In part, I understand this, because probably the exchange is used for this purpose, but why should normal users suffer from it?

    The other possible way to funds pass is: A puts on a ridiculous line that is terrible value - for example you put up X - 10 when the real line is X + 10. No-one would take this line as it will always lose. BUT - your partner B takes this line. So that is an example of B passing funds to A.

    Did you ever do this? Put up a terrible line that no-one should take but then a sucker (B) took the line and thereby passed you funds?
    I didn't bet on ridiculous lines that couldn't be done.

    "I took advantage of someone's mistake" - give 2 concrete examples - the sport, the teams, the line you took advantage of, the correct line. We need this detail to give a better opinion on your case.
    There was a case where I placed a favorable bet on the tennis market 1st set. I didn't follow this bet, but in a while I noticed that someone had accepted it. When I opened the market and checked the result I saw that the set was finished and the market was not closed.

    Note: this is already suspicious - I have been using Betfair for 10 years and in all this time I have seen maybe 10 or 20 examples total of an "error" (usually mistaken reverse line) that I have been able to take advantage of and get a virtual lock on that position. In addition - you have to act VERY quickly when you see an error like this or some other smart person will snap it up quickly. So the fact that you have had a "few times" where you have spotted an error AND been able to take it - given your account with OrbitX is quite new - is quite suspicious.
    I have already used Betfair in the past. Usually acting on the exchange I have open many tabs (only live) when the opportunity arises (in my opinion) I enter the market. I don't just use mistakes, but they happen, the vast majority of which, as you say, someone else will accept this type of bet.

    Before you give the actual examples - please state here the SUMS involved in the wagers. For example - if the position was worth 100 Euros I kind of doubt that would be funds passing / money laundering as the amount is so small. If it was 20k then we might be talking turkey.
    I made 2 deposits, totaling EUR 252. My biggest single win per bet is around €319, usually a lot less. After a month of playing I managed to collect 2k EUR, then I decided to withdraw 500.
    I'm at the stage of taking screenshots, but the site has technical problems (as it often happens). Screenshots will be ready as soon as possible.

  10. #10
    Skurwol
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    Quote Originally Posted by littlekona View Post
    Nice work Sportsbettor! you cracked the case getting OP to admit publicly "I took advantage of someone's mistake" and multiple times at that. OP just playing the dumb card and not very good at that. The Thread tiltle to is misleading as they confiscated funds for fund passing not sent to some unknown person. OP knows exacly what what happened here
    I'm afraid you don't know where you are

  11. #11
    Alfie White
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    Just ignore shillona, he is as clueless as jjgold, complete lunatic with 0 sense.

    Please give us full list of bets and we look into it.

  12. #12
    Ewan101
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    Quote Originally Posted by littlekona View Post
    Nice work Sportsbettor! you cracked the case getting OP to admit publicly "I took advantage of someone's mistake" and multiple times at that. OP just playing the dumb card and not very good at that. The Thread tiltle to is misleading as they confiscated funds for fund passing not sent to some unknown person. OP knows exacly what what happened here
    Yes - but the whole point is: It is OK to take advantage of someone's mistake at Betfair!! This happens frequently when people accidentally post a bad line. I and all here want to jump all over that action and take the cash. If this is genuinely what the OP did then all is fine and no "funds passing" has occurred.

    The issue is: When will Betfair just say "yeah the guy made a mistake and another guy took his cash" and when will Betfair say "Oh Guy 1 is funds passing to Guy 2" ?

    This is the WHOLE issue here and why I am so interested in this thread. Since I learned about people getting busted for "funds passing" I have also been nervous about pouncing on mistakes when I see them.

    I would like to know HOW Betfair distinguishes between Scenario A (Legit) and Scenario B (some shady terrorists or criminals funds passing / money laundering from one to another).

    My big concern is that if I take advantage of a bad line posted by the same guy twice Betfair may decide this is funds passing. That would be devastating as we can see from the OP that you lose your Betfair account AND its $$ contents.

    I would like to trust that Betfair has methods to distinguish between Scenario A and Scenario B - but who really knows?
    Last edited by Ewan101; 07-28-21 at 02:53 PM.

  13. #13
    SportsBettor74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skurwol View Post
    Yes, but I don't see any details there. So far, it sounds more like an excuse.



    I read on the forum that many people had a similar problem. In part, I understand this, because probably the exchange is used for this purpose, but why should normal users suffer from it?



    I didn't bet on ridiculous lines that couldn't be done.



    There was a case where I placed a favorable bet on the tennis market 1st set. I didn't follow this bet, but in a while I noticed that someone had accepted it. When I opened the market and checked the result I saw that the set was finished and the market was not closed.



    I have already used Betfair in the past. Usually acting on the exchange I have open many tabs (only live) when the opportunity arises (in my opinion) I enter the market. I don't just use mistakes, but they happen, the vast majority of which, as you say, someone else will accept this type of bet.



    I made 2 deposits, totaling EUR 252. My biggest single win per bet is around €319, usually a lot less. After a month of playing I managed to collect 2k EUR, then I decided to withdraw 500.
    I'm at the stage of taking screenshots, but the site has technical problems (as it often happens). Screenshots will be ready as soon as possible.
    OK - so your max bet is €319, usually a lot less.

    Let's just think about this for a second. If a criminal wanted to pass funds to another criminal and wanted that cash to be laundered in some way, they would place €319 in a brown envelope and hand it to the other criminal. They would not go to the trouble of "funds passing" through the Betfair website.

    Assuming that all the OP has said is truthful - it is very concerning that Betfair would take this action given the sums involved.

    Optional / SBR - could we treat this as a "special case" and get some evidence from Betfair as to why they have taken this draconian action against the OP? A similar recent case re: Betonline lead to you being shown irrefutable evidence that the "Newbie girl" was really a scammer opening 23 accounts from the same PC.

    Could we have something similar here?

  14. #14
    littlekona
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ewan101 View Post
    Yes - but the whole point is: It is OK to take advantage of someone's mistake at Betfair!! This happens frequently when people accidentally post a bad line. I and all here want to jump all over that action and take the cash. If this is genuinely what the OP did then all is fine and no "funds passing" has occurred.

    The issue is: When will Betfair just say "yeah the guy made a mistake and another guy took his cash" and when will Betfair say "Oh Guy 1 is funds passing to Guy 2" ?

    This is the WHOLE issue here and why I am so interested in this thread. Since I learned about people getting busted for "funds passing" I have also been nervous about pouncing on mistakes when I see them.

    I would like to know HOW Betfair distinguishes between Scenario A (Legit) and Scenario B (some shady terrorists or criminals funds passing / money laundering from one to another).

    My big concern is that if I take advantage of a bad line posted by the same guy twice Betfair may decide this is funds passing. That would be devastating as we can see from the OP that you lose your Betfair account AND its $$ contents.

    I would like to trust that Betfair has methods to distinguish between Scenario A and Scenario B - but who really knows?
    you have to remember this is not the early days of online sports betting. The technolgy the books use for security and fraud prevention is high tech and they know the differnce between the average Joe betting a bad line and someone passing funds. With API and software bad lines are scooped up in seconds. Sure who really knows but OP sure has some big Red Flags and seems like he knows what gig is here.

    Big Differnce between BOL and the "Newbie" case and this is the relationship SBR/Oprional have with BOL. They have fast open channels of communication while Orbitx/Agents its not so much

  15. #15
    Ewan101
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    Quote Originally Posted by littlekona View Post
    you have to remember this is not the early days of online sports betting. The technolgy the books use for security and fraud prevention is high tech and they know the differnce between the average Joe betting a bad line and someone passing funds. With API and software bad lines are scooped up in seconds. Sure who really knows but OP sure has some big Red Flags and seems like he knows what gig is here.

    Big Differnce between BOL and the "Newbie" case and this is the relationship SBR/Oprional have with BOL. They have fast open channels of communication while Orbitx/Agents its not so much
    That is a fair point.

    BUT - the issue here is that Betfair decided the OP was funds passing - this was communicated to OrbitX who then communicated it to BIA.

    So in the absence of the Betfair decision there would be no issue here.

    The communication must be between SBR and Betfair so we can understand why the OP has been accused of "funds passing". Especially as has been pointed out the sums at 300 euros max are not exactly the size we would expect from a money laundering operation.
    Points Awarded:

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  16. #16
    littlekona
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ewan101 View Post
    That is a fair point.

    BUT - the issue here is that Betfair decided the OP was funds passing - this was communicated to OrbitX who then communicated it to BIA.

    So in the absence of the Betfair decision there would be no issue here.

    The communication must be between SBR and Betfair so we can understand why the OP has been accused of "funds passing". Especially as has been pointed out the sums at 300 euros max are not exactly the size we would expect from a money laundering operation.
    in a perfert world yes that would be great. But its not going to happen since an agent is involved. Ive had a couple investigations I got caught up in which all worked out in the end but they are very tight lipped the agents and or betfair with details its frustrating I know but I think passing of funds is the easiest of all for them to catch accurately

  17. #17
    SportsBettor74
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    Quote Originally Posted by littlekona View Post
    With API and software bad lines are scooped up in seconds.
    I agree that if A posted a generous line then with tech it would be scooped up in seconds.

    But what about the second method I posted above?:

    The other possible way to funds pass is: A puts on a ridiculous line that is terrible value - for example you put up X - 10 when the real line is X + 10. No-one would take this line as it will always lose. BUT - your partner B takes this line. So that is an example of B passing funds to A.

    There are two kinds of people who would take this bad line: A colleague who wants to pass funds to you (bad and should be punished) and an innocent Joe Public who in the heat of the moment sees X - 10 as an offer on Betfair and mistakenly falls into the trap of taking that X - 10 (when the real line is X + 10).

    I wonder how Betfair distinguishes between the two cases?

  18. #18
    Skurwol
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    1 https://ibb.co/YXNvDfw
    2 https://ibb.co/CnGrXwv
    3 https://ibb.co/SxYZf8q
    4 https://ibb.co/tCHL2jc
    5 https://ibb.co/FYVLGCw
    6 https://ibb.co/F891dzK
    7 https://ibb.co/4WRHGQb
    8 https://ibb.co/WzY480Z
    9 https://ibb.co/4KfYYr2
    10 https://ibb.co/0rjhWrQ
    11 https://ibb.co/vYKbB3w
    12 https://ibb.co/3RqQ7Pt
    13 https://ibb.co/64QhK3w
    14 https://ibb.co/Vp70yTm
    15 https://ibb.co/C9Fpm7r
    16 https://ibb.co/LrK2w4T
    17 https://ibb.co/GT4z5Ck
    18 https://ibb.co/bzqfm5J
    19 https://ibb.co/d23CrDJ
    20 https://ibb.co/F8q5DP2
    21 https://ibb.co/kmX62Kd
    22 https://ibb.co/jkSYNBz
    23 https://ibb.co/ww0z1L6
    24 https://ibb.co/7VmP2tQ
    25 https://ibb.co/jHpwxfV
    26 https://ibb.co/6XjhNnH
    27 https://ibb.co/1T77TjF
    28 https://ibb.co/Hntc9N4
    29 https://ibb.co/K569N2G
    30 https://ibb.co/ggv901D
    31 https://ibb.co/XFRPrX7
    32 https://ibb.co/sg4B7gq
    33 https://ibb.co/1rgZSfL
    34 https://ibb.co/mT8fYmH

    My big concern is that if I take advantage of a bad line posted by the same guy twice Betfair may decide this is funds passing. That would be devastating as we can see from the OP that you lose your Betfair account AND its $$ contents.

    I would like to trust that Betfair has methods to distinguish between Scenario A and Scenario B - but who really knows?
    Everything seems to Betfair does not verify this. As soon as they have the slightest suspicion they throw everyone into one bag.

    OK - so your max bet is €319, usually a lot less.
    Maximum net profit on a single bet.

    Let's just think about this for a second. If a criminal wanted to pass funds to another criminal and wanted that cash to be laundered in some way, they would place €319 in a brown envelope and hand it to the other criminal. They would not go to the trouble of "funds passing" through the Betfair website.
    This is a logical explain

  19. #19
    littlekona
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    Quote Originally Posted by SportsBettor74 View Post
    I agree that if A posted a generous line then with tech it would be scooped up in seconds.

    But what about the second method I posted above?:

    The other possible way to funds pass is: A puts on a ridiculous line that is terrible value - for example you put up X - 10 when the real line is X + 10. No-one would take this line as it will always lose. BUT - your partner B takes this line. So that is an example of B passing funds to A.

    There are two kinds of people who would take this bad line: A colleague who wants to pass funds to you (bad and should be punished) and an innocent Joe Public who in the heat of the moment sees X - 10 as an offer on Betfair and mistakenly falls into the trap of taking that X - 10 (when the real line is X + 10).

    I wonder how Betfair distinguishes between the two cases?
    not sure but with the companies in their group they have to have top security.

    My best guess in this case with the OP is he passed funds to a buddy few dollars who asked innocent enough no harm done BUT it falls under the passing funds T/C's and is an instant account close and siezed funds.

  20. #20
    DontTailMe
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    Quote Originally Posted by littlekona View Post
    not sure but with the companies in their group they have to have top security.

    My best guess in this case with the OP is he passed funds to a buddy few dollars who asked innocent enough no harm done BUT it falls under the passing funds T/C's and is an instant account close and siezed funds.
    If someone is simply passing a few dollars to a buddy, why would they use this convoluted method instead of Venmo or one of the hundred other legit methods out there? Heck, even prostitutes use Venmo and Zelle.

    Also, based on the evidence I see from time to time, I think these sportsbooks/exchanges have a lot less "high tech" than you think they do. I would not be so quick to assume that OP must be guilty just because a bookie took action against them. That's like saying someone must be guilty because the police arrested them (but even worse). Sorry, but no.
    Last edited by DontTailMe; 07-28-21 at 04:49 PM.

  21. #21
    Skurwol
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    Quote Originally Posted by littlekona View Post
    not sure but with the companies in their group they have to have top security.

    My best guess in this case with the OP is he passed funds to a buddy few dollars who asked innocent enough no harm done BUT it falls under the passing funds T/C's and is an instant account close and siezed funds.
    Nothing like this has happened. I cut my right leg at the very hip if I know any of the people with I made a bet.

    It could be more about taking advantage of a mistake or about the 1st set tennis market I've written about before.
    Last edited by Skurwol; 07-28-21 at 04:59 PM.

  22. #22
    Optional
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ewan101 View Post
    Yes - but the whole point is: It is OK to take advantage of someone's mistake at Betfair!!
    Yes. That is and should be just fine.

    If Betfair have said he is funds passing, they will be aware that users offer and take errors. If they penalize they should have more than one outlier incidence of it, or be able to connect the users some other way.




    @Skurwol can you post details of just the bet/s that you think may may have set this off? So we can see how far off market it looks and what market it was in and if there was any other activity in the market at the time.

    What country are you in?
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  23. #23
    Optional
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ewan101 View Post
    That is a fair point.

    BUT - the issue here is that Betfair decided the OP was funds passing - this was communicated to OrbitX who then communicated it to BIA.

    So in the absence of the Betfair decision there would be no issue here.

    The communication must be between SBR and Betfair so we can understand why the OP has been accused of "funds passing". Especially as has been pointed out the sums at 300 euros max are not exactly the size we would expect from a money laundering operation.
    He is going to have to go through the Betfair escalation team himself. Thats how it works now.

    But we can can help him by making sure he knows the best way to approach it.
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  24. #24
    Alfie White
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    Betfair will provide 0 answers to anyone outside of OrbitX in this case. In Betfair's eyes, OrbitX placed the bet and nothing particular with the bet will be shared with 3rd party for that reason.

    OP has to contact OrbitX directly and see what is happening. From what I have seen, we should mainly focus on the last couple of pages where the balance improved from 400-500 to 2000.

    Another thing you didn't answer - do you have ANY proof they have issued payment to 3rd party Neteller? Did they do it from OrbitX directly or from BIA wallet?

  25. #25
    Optional
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alfie White View Post
    Betfair will provide 0 answers to anyone outside of OrbitX in this case.
    They have in the last couple of cases posted on the forum I have helped people with.
    Points Awarded:

    Alfie White gave Optional 2 Betpoint(s) for this post.

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  26. #26
    SportsBettor74
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    There are 34 pages of bets here. It would take hours to go through them all. I've opened a few pages and had a look.

    The thing that strikes me here is that the OP has placed literally 100s and 100s of bets here. And most are of tiny value. For example he will Lay 100 at 1.04 and lose 4 euros. He has literally done this kind of thing 100s of times. It seems pretty clear to me that the OP is a small time player who has hit a few good lays to get his balance up to 2000 euros.

    The OP has been accused of funds passing by Betfair - his balance confiscated and his account closed. The fact that he happened to do this through OrbitX and BIA is a red herring - the key issue we need to understand is how Betfair can consider that this small time player is "funds passing". We need to solve this because ANYONE with a Betfair account is at risk of such an accusation and we can see that once accused you have a real issue in exonerating yourself.

    Optional above has given us considerable confidence that Betfair are not throwing around funds passing accusations "willy nilly". Optional states:

    "If Betfair have said he is funds passing, they will be aware that users offer and take errors. If they penalize they should have more than one outlier incidence of it, or be able to connect the users some other way"

    So we are given some confidence here because it is possible that the OP is connected to User B with whom he transacted to funds pass. As an example, perhaps the OP and User B used the same PC to post and take the bets. Perhaps they used the same IP address. Perhaps they are connected in some other way (e.g. physical address - they are neighbours).

    I am less convinced by the idea that there is "
    more than one outlier incidence of it". All it would take is for User A to make 2 mistakes on the Betfair site and for you to snap up those 2 mistakes and you could then be accused of funds passing.

    I would like Betfair to be more transparent in how it determines that funds passing has occurred. Until this time, anyone snapping up an error at Betfair is at risk of being accused. I am particularly concerned as it seems to me there is no doubt that the OP is a small time player. Just have a look at his 100s of bets worth almost nothing - 3 or 4 euros at risk - and you will see what I mean.
    Last edited by SportsBettor74; 07-29-21 at 05:22 AM.

  27. #27
    Optional
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    The Betfair escalation team is surprisingly open to speak with agent account users.

    They will at the very least confirm it is them that confiscated the money.

    I am not as confident about getting a decision reversed by just speaking to them. But if it fails you have an avenue to continue via their licensor or ADR service, or legal action.


    @OP, did you see the questions in post #22?
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  28. #28
    SportsBettor74
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    I think we know it was Betfair (directing OrbitX) who confiscated the money and closed the account, citing "funds passing".

    See this very clear link posted by the OP: https://ibb.co/PCTVgBz

  29. #29
    Skurwol
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optional View Post
    Yes. That is and should be just fine.

    If Betfair have said he is funds passing, they will be aware that users offer and take errors. If they penalize they should have more than one outlier incidence of it, or be able to connect the users some other way.




    @Skurwol can you post details of just the bet/s that you think may may have set this off? So we can see how far off market it looks and what market it was in and if there was any other activity in the market at the time.

    What country are you in?
    These bets may not have appealed to them.

    https://ibb.co/S3kzXJm
    https://ibb.co/H7sgqwT
    https://ibb.co/26XCcbq

    In Poland.

    OP has to contact OrbitX directly and see what is happening. From what I have seen, we should mainly focus on the last couple of pages where the balance improved from 400-500 to 2000.

    Another thing you didn't answer - do you have ANY proof they have issued payment to 3rd party Neteller? Did they do it from OrbitX directly or from BIA wallet?
    How can I contact OrbitX directly? The only possible way is to contact BIA as I know.

    Directly from my Orbit account. I don't know where the funds went because my BIA profile was deleted, but I suspect they haven't even touched my BIA wallet. The only proof is screenshots of my OrbitX account history.

  30. #30
    Skurwol
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    I just received a very important email.

    https://ibb.co/ZmhTNWr


    So it's about one of those bets.

    https://ibb.co/FhnR2vd
    https://ibb.co/55v2VwB

    Last edited by Skurwol; 07-29-21 at 12:25 PM.

  31. #31
    SportsBettor74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skurwol View Post
    I just received a very important email.

    https://ibb.co/ZmhTNWr


    Ok - Washington V Baltimore Oriels

    Please paste a link to the bets you placed on this game asap

  32. #32
    SportsBettor74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skurwol View Post
    I just received a very important email.

    https://ibb.co/ZmhTNWr


    So it's about one of those bets.

    https://ibb.co/FhnR2vd
    https://ibb.co/55v2VwB

    48753280 - you lost 0.43 so the most you could have "passed" to another was 0.43

    48857205 - you won 0.30 so the most that could have been "passed" to you was 0.30

    48753079 - you won 158.89. This was a back bet on Baltimore moneyline: 19.38 units at 9.20. I assume this was made in-play (please confirm).

    Since you won this bet the accusation must be that X passed 158.89 to you by putting up this offer.

    I don't see how this could be funds passing. As soon as your collaborator put up the offer at 9.20 there is no guarantee that you would be the one to grab it. In-play markets are very volatile and there are 100s of traders all backing and laying in real time.

    If the odds were "fair" given the state of the game then this is not funds passing.

    If the odds were very very generous (a "lock" and therefore a funds pass) there is no guarantee that you would be the one to grab it. Anyone could have grabbed it In-Play.

    I am completely perplexed by the allegation of funds passing against you IF these are the only 3 bets you had on the game.

    Please confirm that your wager 19.38 units at 9.20 was made in play and NOT pre-match.

  33. #33
    Optional
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skurwol View Post
    I just received a very important email.

    https://ibb.co/ZmhTNWr


    So it's about one of those bets.

    https://ibb.co/FhnR2vd
    https://ibb.co/55v2VwB


    If asked could you offer them a logical explanation for these bets?

    Could you offer examples of where you have bet on other baseball games the same way?

    When was the last time you withdrew?

    Have you had any trouble withdrawing to Poland? And therefore maybe would find it easier to get money out via a friend?
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  34. #34
    littlekona
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    that 9.2 odds is imposible pre game or live. they where winning the whole way from the first inn if I am reading it right Baltimore ML on the 24th.

  35. #35
    Skurwol
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    Quote Originally Posted by SportsBettor74 View Post
    48753280 - you lost 0.43 so the most you could have "passed" to another was 0.43

    48857205 - you won 0.30 so the most that could have been "passed" to you was 0.30

    48753079 - you won 158.89. This was a back bet on Baltimore moneyline: 19.38 units at 9.20. I assume this was made in-play (please confirm).

    Since you won this bet the accusation must be that X passed 158.89 to you by putting up this offer.

    I don't see how this could be funds passing. As soon as your collaborator put up the offer at 9.20 there is no guarantee that you would be the one to grab it. In-play markets are very volatile and there are 100s of traders all backing and laying in real time.

    If the odds were "fair" given the state of the game then this is not funds passing.

    If the odds were very very generous (a "lock" and therefore a funds pass) there is no guarantee that you would be the one to grab it. Anyone could have grabbed it In-Play.

    I am completely perplexed by the allegation of funds passing against you IF these are the only 3 bets you had on the game.

    Please confirm that your wager 19.38 units at 9.20 was made in play and NOT pre-match.

    Yes, all my bets, including Bet No. 48753079 were made in play.


    Quote Originally Posted by Optional View Post
    If asked could you offer them a logical explanation for these bets?

    Could you offer examples of where you have bet on other baseball games the same way?

    When was the last time you withdrew?

    Have you had any trouble withdrawing to Poland? And therefore maybe would find it easier to get money out via a friend?
    I noticed a back @25 bet on the Baltimore Orioles, who was winning 6:1. I decided to outbid this offer with a Back bet @12 at Baltimore Orioles, my bid has been outbid by Back @11.5, so I lowered my to @11 and so on until the degree @9.2 someone accepted my bet.

    https://ibb.co/1ZkmCS4
    https://ibb.co/XpKG3nx
    https://ibb.co/7z8kzTR
    https://ibb.co/ChJF3qq
    https://ibb.co/r35TFJx
    https://ibb.co/1QMhCC0


    I did not make any withdrawal, only 2 deposits. When I ordered a €500 withdrawal, my account was blocked.

    I had problems withdrawing funds from sports betting, because here all betting exchanges are banned and there are only a few (~6) local bookmakers on the market who have purchased a licence and are charging a 12% fee on the stake.

    Withdrawal to a bank account is risky. I spent money from bets in stores (with currency conversion) using a neteller card.
    Last edited by Skurwol; 07-29-21 at 03:20 PM.

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