1. #1
    carax
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    betcoin.ag confiscated winnings

    Hi All,

    this is my first post there, so welcome.
    I would like to share you my bad experience with betcoin.ag
    During this 3-4 month my account has negativ balance.
    It was made without any problems.

    Problems come with second withdraw.
    I won about 20 mbtc.

    After i made withdraw they blocked my accounts and give me one hour to send verification documents.
    They made videoverification too.

    Firstly reason was:
    "Thank you for your cooperation.
    Your account activity is associated with that of forking/surebet
    scanners. Which site are you using for this?

    Regards,
    Betcoin Security


    I didnt use any bets with small markets. Any bets from lower division, any surebets. Sometimes i take free bets from (removed link)

    So they find another reason (multiaccount):
    We have already associated your account with at a other Betcoin account. Now would be a good time to start talking.
    Finally after some emails they withdraw only me deposits .

    My winnings (about 20mBTC) were confiscated.
    Betcoin didnt show any evidence that i violate terms.

    Regards
    carax


  2. #2
    Optional
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    Betcoin contacted SBR about this with evidence that your account was funded from the same source as another Betcoin account.

    They say that you could not offer them any explanation for that so they closed the accounts and returned deposited funds.
    Points Awarded:

    Alfie White gave Optional 2 Betpoint(s) for this post.


  3. #3
    Alfie White
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    ))

  4. #4
    Judge Crater
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    Bitcoin is not so anonymous after all

    Quote Originally Posted by Optional View Post
    Betcoin contacted SBR about this with evidence that your account was funded from the same source as another Betcoin account.

    They say that you could not offer them any explanation for that so they closed the accounts and returned deposited funds.

  5. #5
    ace7550
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judge Crater View Post
    Bitcoin is not so anonymous after all
    It can be pretty anonymous. It's definitely not anonymous when you create two accounts at the same book and then fund them both from the same wallet

  6. #6
    DontTailMe
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    Quote Originally Posted by ace7550 View Post
    It can be pretty anonymous. It's definitely not anonymous when you create two accounts at the same book and then fund them both from the same wallet
    Well, technically, that can still be "anonymous"...just not uniquely one person (how dumb). Bitcoin can be anonymous if you really try, but it's difficult for casuals because they're looking for easy ways to convert between bitcoin and cash/products.

  7. #7
    Optional
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    There are legit reasons why deposits might come from the same source.

    But apparently no reason was offered when asked, just a denial.

  8. #8
    themike78
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    Betcoin solid book. I've been playing there recently and cashouts all have taken about 10 minutes. 24/7 payouts also. Unfortunately they stopped taking new U.S customers but if you already had an account there you can still play.

  9. #9
    raiders72001
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    Quote Originally Posted by themike78 View Post
    Betcoin solid book. I've been playing there recently and cashouts all have taken about 10 minutes. 24/7 payouts also. Unfortunately they stopped taking new U.S customers but if you already had an account there you can still play.
    agree and they take many different cryptos.
    Nomination(s):
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  10. #10
    gryzonko
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    Betcoin lie , and I can prove it.My account was blocked and then closed at the same time as Carax's account.I have not received information that we are accused in the same case, but the time of account closing and the facts below indicate this. So I will describe the whole situation in detail.Oct/nov last year I sold BTC to Carax.
    It was 24-10-2020 100. mBTC ; 01-11-2020 76.4 mBTC .
    The same time Carax paid me for it via revolut:
    24-10-2020 amount 1100 euro;
    01-11-2020 amount 897 euro.

    Below are screenshots these transactions. Original screenshots I can send to SBR or Betcoin.



    Also I have recommended him a few bookmakers with BTC payments ( betcoin , sportsbetting.ag , bookmaker.eu).When Carax made withdrawal request, Betcoin checked his wallet for links to other wallets, and found our transfers from oct/nov 2020.The most important thing in the whole case is that these transactions in no way violate the Betcoin T&C. Moreover, the accusations of multiple accounts are so ridiculous that we both logged into our betcoin accounts mostly from the home using landline internet connection. Betcoin has our IP logs, so it is easy to check. I am using orange neostrada, Carax is using multimedia. Users from Poland can confirm, that these internet providers offer only landline internet connections.I can provide utility bill for landline internet connection, with the same adress as registered in Betcoin ( I suppose Carax is also able to do it). The distance between our addresses is over 500 km. I suppose our accounts were often active in the same time ( easy to check by IP logs history), so with proven landline connection , it was not physically possible for either of us to use the other user's account.

    I say it one more time - Betcoin is lying, and I'll be happy to prove it. Both Me and Carax accept all forms of investigation/verification. It can be screenshots, docs. photos , videoverification (Betcoin already used it).

    We can accept full access to history our BTC wallets or revolut wallets, to show all transactions.To prove that both of us are real players , we can :

    - send screenshots from many other sportbooks, with many years activity ( even 10 years or more )

    - send screenshots from sportbooks non limiting players like Pinnacle or bookmaker.com .Each of us, has own accounts . Everybody knows, thats these bookies are not used for multiple accounts.

    - send utility bills for landline internet connection.

    We are open to cooperation, I hope SBR, take a closer look at this matter than the first time.

  11. #11
    Optional
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    It's not just being different people as Betcoin say that the betting style and patterns were the same for both accounts as well as the common wallet. Carax denying any connection with you is why he was treated as he was.

    Did they pay you out before closing your account or take funds too?

  12. #12
    carax
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    Optional,
    i'm sorry but betcoin didnt ask me for connection with gryzonko.

    Question/remarsk were:

    - "your account activity is associated with that of forking/scanners. Which are you using for this?
    - "Let us know if you want to talk. You helping us catch other abusers is your only hope"

    - " we already have proof of multiple accounts. We have no time to keep going back and forth with cheaters.


    Betcoin didnt show any evidence for multiple accounts from my site.


    I can send to SBR my locations, my bills, my all history from another companies.

  13. #13
    gryzonko
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    Hi Optional

    Have You seen bets history of both accounts? I have made screenshots of my history, unfortunately Carax didnt. Can You ask Betcoin for his bet history?. We can compare it, here on forum. This could be a good lesson to prove how unfair Betcoin is doing.

    Do You realize, that "betting style and patterns" is extremely weak evidence to close account/ confiscate winnings ? Reliable bookmaker, to close account/ confiscate winnings must show really strong & unequivocal evidence."Betting style and patterns" by definition, it can only be a subjective opinion ...

    You also should know, how betcoin security works.They far too often accuse their clients without grounds (for surebets, for multiple accounts, for sindicate betting etc.). This thread is good example.

    https://www.sportsbookreview.com/for...nt-locked.html .

    My accounts has negative balance ( less than the value of deposits) , so they paid me full account balance.

  14. #14
    icon
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    gryzonko why are you still using Windows 7?

  15. #15
    SportsBettor74
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    Quote Originally Posted by carax View Post
    Optional,
    i'm sorry but betcoin didnt ask me for connection with gryzonko.

    Question/remarsk were:

    - "your account activity is associated with that of forking/scanners. Which are you using for this?
    - "Let us know if you want to talk. You helping us catch other abusers is your only hope"

    - " we already have proof of multiple accounts. We have no time to keep going back and forth with cheaters.


    Betcoin didnt show any evidence for multiple accounts from my site.


    I can send to SBR my locations, my bills, my all history from another companies.
    Does anyone here know the definition of "forking/scanners" in this context?

  16. #16
    Optional
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    Quote Originally Posted by carax View Post
    Optional,
    i'm sorry but betcoin didnt ask me for connection with gryzonko.

    Question/remarsk were:

    - "your account activity is associated with that of forking/scanners. Which are you using for this?
    - "Let us know if you want to talk. You helping us catch other abusers is your only hope"

    - " we already have proof of multiple accounts. We have no time to keep going back and forth with cheaters.


    Betcoin didnt show any evidence for multiple accounts from my site.


    I can send to SBR my locations, my bills, my all history from another companies.
    Quote Originally Posted by gryzonko View Post
    Hi Optional

    Have You seen bets history of both accounts? I have made screenshots of my history, unfortunately Carax didnt. Can You ask Betcoin for his bet history?. We can compare it, here on forum. This could be a good lesson to prove how unfair Betcoin is doing.

    Do You realize, that "betting style and patterns" is extremely weak evidence to close account/ confiscate winnings ? Reliable bookmaker, to close account/ confiscate winnings must show really strong & unequivocal evidence."Betting style and patterns" by definition, it can only be a subjective opinion ...

    You also should know, how betcoin security works.They far too often accuse their clients without grounds (for surebets, for multiple accounts, for sindicate betting etc.). This thread is good example.

    https://www.sportsbookreview.com/for...nt-locked.html .

    My accounts has negative balance ( less than the value of deposits) , so they paid me full account balance.


    I'll request that they read your posts here and offer a public comment I can post.



    Quote Originally Posted by SportsBettor74 View Post
    Does anyone here know the definition of "forking/scanners" in this context?
    Arbitrage

  17. #17
    gryzonko
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    Thanks Optional. It is a good solution

    Quote Originally Posted by icon View Post
    gryzonko why are you still using Windows 7?
    I dont like win10

  18. #18
    SportsBettor74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optional View Post
    I'll request that they read your posts here and offer a public comment I can post.





    Arbitrage
    Interesting.

    I do not have a Betcoin account and I cannot due to being in a prohibited jurisdiction.

    I have been through their t&c and found this:


    10.2 If the player is suspected of fraudulent actions including but not limited to: participating in any type of collusion with other players, development of strategies aimed at unfaithful winnings, arbitrage betting, use of forking services, use of surebet or valuebet services, fraudulent actions against other online casinos or payment providers, ********** procedures with a credit card or denial of some payments made, other types of cheating, providing incorrect information about personal data during registration or is known to have gone bankrupt in the country of his residence, the Company reserves the right to terminate the user account and suspend all payouts to the player.


    10.3 This decision is at sole discretion of the Company and the player will not be notified or informed about the reasons of such actions.


    Now - the interesting thing about this is that there is an explicit term banning arbitrage (and valuebet / surebet services)

    I recall a scandal some years ago where an otherwise A book had such a term and attempted to invoke it. From memory, the player ended up getting paid AND the A book modified their t&c to remove the clause.

    The bottom line here is that when a bookie has a term like this you are completely stuffed. If you have half a brain you will always be looking for "value" in your betting and Betcoin can invoke this term any time they wish and you have no defence.

    I would advise all smart bettors to immediately withdraw all from Betcoin (it is an unacceptable risk to have funds in a bookmaker with this kind of term). I would request SBR to downgrade Betcoin from C+ to C- or D (based on the existence of this term alone).

    As stated - I do not and cannot have an account with Betcoin - but given this term I would NEVER open an account with them
    Last edited by SportsBettor74; 04-28-21 at 06:04 AM.

  19. #19
    Optional
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optional View Post
    I'll request that they read your posts here and offer a public comment I can post.
    Betcoin Statement:



    10 years ago, multiple accounts would login with the same IP and say the other account was their "roommate". Everyone knew it was not their roommate, so sites started allowing 1 account per household. Now abusive players have ways around the matching IPs and we have been forced to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on additional tools, which allow us to connect accounts in different ways.

    In this case, it was quickly found that these accounts had been funded by the same Bitcoin wallet. This was clearly a private wallet, as it had5 total transactions, 4 of which involved Betcoin from 2 different accounts.

    https://www.betcoin.ag/support/betcoinag-terms-service

    8.7 Accounts must be self-funded. Any accounts found to have the same source of funds will be dealt with per our policy regarding multi-accounting.

    These accounts were further linked through other behavioral and biometric data.

    As gryzonko stated, he was able to withdraw his account balance in full. The newer account received his most recent deposit back, which is the resolution recommended by SBR in these matters.

    Regarding SportsBettor74's statement, arbitrage betting is banned by nearly every site. What we are specifically talking about in these cases are people using technology which scans thousands of sites for guaranteed arbitrage (surebet) and valuebet opportunities. Just like you don't want bots infested on poker sites, these are bots that find guaranteed profit on sportsbooks and they are a plague on the industry. They force sportsbooks to ban certain regions and offer less bet types, because the large majority of the play from those regions and bet types are abusive. We have lost millions of dollars to them that could have been better spent improving our product and offering promotions to legitimate players.

    We have been investigating these for many years and are able to detect and confirm the use of these apps. If a player is suspected of this, the account will be closed for further investigation. The investigation is costly and can take several weeks, but it can confirm without a doubt that this technology was used. In this case, the account was closed due to suspicion of the use of these services, but we never got far enough to confirm it because we found the shared Bitcoin wallet.

    Nearly every sportsbook has a TOS that a player can be banned at their discretion. The legitimate sites use this rarely, if ever. Betcoin has been around for 8 years and has tens of thousands of weekly, satisfied players. We have cooperated with SBR on every dispute and nearly all have been found in our favor. If you are a legitimate player, you will get paid. It's that simple.


  20. #20
    SportsBettor74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optional View Post
    Betcoin Statement:



    10 years ago, multiple accounts would login with the same IP and say the other account was their "roommate". Everyone knew it was not their roommate, so sites started allowing 1 account per household. Now abusive players have ways around the matching IPs and we have been forced to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on additional tools, which allow us to connect accounts in different ways.

    In this case, it was quickly found that these accounts had been funded by the same Bitcoin wallet. This was clearly a private wallet, as it had5 total transactions, 4 of which involved Betcoin from 2 different accounts.

    https://www.betcoin.ag/support/betcoinag-terms-service

    8.7 Accounts must be self-funded. Any accounts found to have the same source of funds will be dealt with per our policy regarding multi-accounting.

    These accounts were further linked through other behavioral and biometric data.

    As gryzonko stated, he was able to withdraw his account balance in full. The newer account received his most recent deposit back, which is the resolution recommended by SBR in these matters.

    Regarding SportsBettor74's statement, arbitrage betting is banned by nearly every site. What we are specifically talking about in these cases are people using technology which scans thousands of sites for guaranteed arbitrage (surebet) and valuebet opportunities. Just like you don't want bots infested on poker sites, these are bots that find guaranteed profit on sportsbooks and they are a plague on the industry. They force sportsbooks to ban certain regions and offer less bet types, because the large majority of the play from those regions and bet types are abusive. We have lost millions of dollars to them that could have been better spent improving our product and offering promotions to legitimate players.

    We have been investigating these for many years and are able to detect and confirm the use of these apps. If a player is suspected of this, the account will be closed for further investigation. The investigation is costly and can take several weeks, but it can confirm without a doubt that this technology was used. In this case, the account was closed due to suspicion of the use of these services, but we never got far enough to confirm it because we found the shared Bitcoin wallet.

    Nearly every sportsbook has a TOS that a player can be banned at their discretion. The legitimate sites use this rarely, if ever. Betcoin has been around for 8 years and has tens of thousands of weekly, satisfied players. We have cooperated with SBR on every dispute and nearly all have been found in our favor. If you are a legitimate player, you will get paid. It's that simple.

    This is a solid statement by the Operator Betcoin.

    Operator Betcoin is to be congratulated - clearly the author is a competent and literate individual - and the fact that the Operator employs such people reflects well on the company.

    Now for the bad news:

    " arbitrage betting is banned by nearly every site" - this is an untrue statement. I have gone to the trouble of reviewing a handful of A+ / A bookmaker t&c (Pinnacle, Betcris/Bookmaker, Betonline, William Hill, Bet365, others) and these bookmakers do NOT have such a term.

    Perhaps what Betcoin should have said is "arbitrage betting is banned by nearly every C or lower site"

    That is not a good start Betcoin - you have deliberately issued a *clearly false* statement to this forum in order to attempt to defend your position and t&c. You have already lost credibility.

    Rather - these A / B bookmakers have the wherewithal to ** adjust their lines / odds accordingly when pressure is put on a certain line. They are smart enough to limit their market max while the market is shaping **

    Some of the particular books mentioned do not react at all (against the customer) when faced with obvious arbitrage bets (for the reasons given) - they have the wherewithal and the infrastructure to cope with sharp plays. They *benefit* from these types of plays as it shapes their market while limits are small.

    Certain other A / B books may limit the player's max bets and effectively force the player to go elsewhere - but they would NEVER "suspend all payouts to the player" for making obvious arbitrage / value / surebets. Whether these bets are arbitrage or surebets (or not) the fact remains that these are LEGITIMATE bets and NOT palps (palpable errors). This is just a fact. This is why you - Betcoin - are C and they are A / B.

    Can you imagine an A-rated book like William Hill or Bet365 confiscating player funds because the player arbed? Of course not. This would be an absolute scandal for an A-rated book. Rather - the player is limited to $1 bets and is effectively forced to withdraw all.

    Operator Betcoin - You "suspend all payouts to the player" - proper A and B books limit the player and allow the player to withdraw. That is the difference here and your position is not defensible - and I think you know this.

    Operator Betcoin - you will NEVER achieve higher than your current C+ rating if you have a term (that you are clearly willing to invoke) that involves "suspending all payouts to the player" in the case of arbing / valuebetting / surebetting - because you do not have the wherewithal to adjust your lines and limits accordingly. This is where the story ends.
    Last edited by SportsBettor74; 04-29-21 at 02:33 AM.
    Nomination(s):
    This post was nominated 1 time . To view the nominated thread please click here. People who nominated: gryzonko

  21. #21
    gryzonko
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    Betcoin did not respond to the most important issue - BTC was purchased by Carax (So cannot say of the same source of funding here). Betcoin still has not provided any evidence, instead of this Betcoin statement is full of PR bullshits ( Tens of thousands of weekly, satisfied players; Great expensive technology ; Surebets as a horrible plague of gambling industry etc.).

    Optional has Betcoin show You any evidence?

  22. #22
    carax
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    I would like to add one thing.

    This btc from gryzonko were bought for market price.

    I use this btc for deposits many companies. And only for my purposes.
    I can show evidence for others transactions.

    Interesting is that my first withdrawal was done without any verification.
    But then my account was not profitable for me.

    So if they have any problems with my transactions they should reacted then.

    The problems started when i made some profit.

    As i see on this formy many betcoin.ag customer has problems, if they won some money.

  23. #23
    Optional
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    Quote Originally Posted by gryzonko View Post
    Optional has Betcoin show You any evidence?
    They sent some technical data and links that showed how they made the wallet connection.

    From there, their terms say what they say and Betcoin say that they want to invoke them.

    There isn't much room for SBR to argue anything for you, which is why I asked them to respond directly to your posts.

  24. #24
    SportsBettor74
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    Carax - as things stand you are out of pocket 0.02 BTC (is that correct?)

    Gryzonko - what is the total amount of BTC owed to you by Betcoin at the time of writing?

  25. #25
    carax
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    Quote Originally Posted by SportsBettor74 View Post
    Carax - as things stand you are out of pocket 0.02 BTC (is that correct?)

    Gryzonko - what is the total amount of BTC owed to you by Betcoin at the time of writing?
    Betcoin.ag confiscated 0,02-0,03 btc. I had some open bets when they closed my account.

  26. #26
    DontTailMe
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    Quote Originally Posted by SportsBettor74 View Post
    This is a solid statement by the Operator Betcoin.

    Operator Betcoin is to be congratulated - clearly the author is a competent and literate individual - and the fact that the Operator employs such people reflects well on the company.

    Now for the bad news:

    " arbitrage betting is banned by nearly every site" - this is an untrue statement. I have gone to the trouble of reviewing a handful of A+ / A bookmaker t&c (Pinnacle, Betcris/Bookmaker, Betonline, others) and these bookmakers do NOT have such a term.

    Perhaps what Betcoin should have said is "arbitrage betting is banned by nearly every C or lower site"

    That is not a good start Betcoin - you have deliberately issued a *clearly false* statement to this forum in order to attempt to defend your position and t&c. You have already lost credibility.

    Rather - these A / B bookmakers have the wherewithal to ** adjust their lines / odds accordingly when pressure is put on a certain line. They are smart enough to limit their market max while the market is shaping **

    The particular books mentioned do not react at all (against the customer) when faced with obvious arbitrage bets (for the reasons given) - they have the wherewithal and the infrastructure to cope with sharp plays. They *benefit* from these types of plays as it shapes their market while limits are small.

    Certain other A / B books may limit the player's max bets and effectively force the player to go elsewhere - but they would NEVER "suspend all payouts to the player" for making obvious arbitrage / value / surebets. Whether these bets are arbitrage or surebets (or not) the fact remains that these are LEGITIMATE bets and NOT palps (palpable errors). This is just a fact. This is why you - Betcoin - are C and they are A / B.

    Can you imagine an A-rated book like William Hill confiscating player funds because the player arbed? Of course not. This would be an absolute scandal for an A-rated book. Rather - the player is limited to $1 bets and is effectively forced to withdraw all.

    Operator Betcoin - You "suspend all payouts to the player" - proper A and B books limit the player and allow the player to withdraw. That is the difference here and your position is not defensible - and I think you know this.

    Operator Betcoin - you will NEVER achieve higher than your current C+ rating if you have a term (that you are clearly willing to invoke) that involves "suspending all payouts to the player" in the case of arbing / valuebetting / surebetting - because you do not have the wherewithal to adjust your lines and limits accordingly. This is where the story ends.
    It's difficult to find anything wrong with this post.

  27. #27
    carax
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optional View Post
    Betcoin Statement:

    10 years ago, multiple accounts would login with the same IP and say the other account was their "roommate". Everyone knew it was not their roommate, so sites started allowing 1 account per household. Now abusive players have ways around the matching IPs and we have been forced to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on additional tools, which allow us to connect accounts in different ways.
    Betcoin spend hundreds of thousnd dollars on additional tools, which allow to connect accounts in different ways, but did not foresee BTC selling between users in this...Epic.

  28. #28
    SportsBettor74
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    Quote Originally Posted by carax View Post
    Betcoin.ag confiscated 0,02-0,03 btc. I had some open bets when they closed my account.
    Carax - assuming all your open bets are now "graded" - are you able to state here the amount in BTC that Betcoin has "suspended your payment" for ?

    Gryzonko - what is the total amount of BTC owed to you by Betcoin at the time of writing?

  29. #29
    gryzonko
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    SportsBettor74 - When Betcoin blocked my account , balance was +/- 0.02 BTC . Betcoin paid me this amount 22.03.2021 and closed account.
    My account has negative balance, so they didnt confiscate winnings.

  30. #30
    carax
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    Quote Originally Posted by SportsBettor74 View Post
    Carax - assuming all your open bets are now "graded" - are you able to state here the amount in BTC that Betcoin has "suspended your payment" for ?

    Gryzonko - what is the total amount of BTC owed to you by Betcoin at the time of writing?
    It was conficated 0,0218 btc + Gradeds bets is about 0,002 + voided one bet without reason (about 0,003)

  31. #31
    SportsBettor74
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    Quote Originally Posted by gryzonko View Post
    SportsBettor74 - When Betcoin blocked my account , balance was +/- 0.02 BTC . Betcoin paid me this amount 22.03.2021 and closed account.
    My account has negative balance, so they didnt confiscate winnings.
    Excellent - so you are clear of this outfit.

    Note that any bookmaker can close or limit any account for any reason - whether that reason is legitimate or not. That is industry standard and that is fine.

    So, for example, if I had a Bet365 account and one day Bet365 emailed saying "we are closing your account because you wear a red hat" - that would be fine - as long as they paid out the balance. This is the only issue. So you are totally fine here - you have been paid.

    The issue with Betcoin is that they have a clause - that they are clearly willing to invoke - whereby they do not pay out legitimate winnings. See my post above for detail on why this is a complete disgrace and why Betcoin should be downgraded to D- immediately.

    Note in the above that whilst Carax's funds are suspended due to the BTC issue (somewhat dubious due to the evidence you have both supplied) the poster from Betcoin admits that they were investigating the arbitrage / surebet angle with the intention of invoking that clause (and confiscating funds from Carax) if the BTC issue had not arisen.

    What a disgrace - the behaviour of a D- bookie - one step away from a blatant scam.
    Nomination(s):
    This post was nominated 1 time . To view the nominated thread please click here. People who nominated: carax

  32. #32
    SportsBettor74
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    Quote Originally Posted by carax View Post
    It was conficated 0,0218 btc + Gradeds bets is about 0,002 + voided one bet without reason (about 0,003)
    The total BTC you are owed - in one figure - is...... ?

  33. #33
    carax
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    it is 0,0268 btc.

  34. #34
    SportsBettor74
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    Quote Originally Posted by carax View Post
    it is 0,0268 btc.
    Ok.

    I would like to ask two more questions:

    You mention that you have had a 4 month relationship with this "bookmaker" Betcoin:

    [1] Are you able to state here the total of ALL deposits you have made to this bookmaker?

    [2] Are you able to state here the total of ALL withdrawals you have made from this bookmaker?

    These might be difficult questions to answer if you are not meticulous in your record keeping - but please do your best to answer.

    The reason for these questions will become apparent after your response - and this may help your case (let's see).
    Last edited by SportsBettor74; 04-29-21 at 06:58 AM.

  35. #35
    themike78
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    Quote Originally Posted by SportsBettor74 View Post
    Excellent - so you are clear of this outfit.

    Note that any bookmaker can close or limit any account for any reason - whether that reason is legitimate or not. That is industry standard and that is fine.

    So, for example, if I had a Bet365 account and one day Bet365 emailed saying "we are closing your account because you wear a red hat" - that would be fine - as long as they paid out the balance. This is the only issue. So you are totally fine here - you have been paid.

    The issue with Betcoin is that they have a clause - that they are clearly willing to invoke - whereby they do not pay out legitimate winnings. See my post above for detail on why this is a complete disgrace and why Betcoin should be downgraded to D- immediately.

    Note in the above that whilst Carax's funds are suspended due to the BTC issue (somewhat dubious due to the evidence you have both supplied) the poster from Betcoin admits that they were investigating the arbitrage / surebet angle with the intention of invoking that clause (and confiscating funds from Carax) if the BTC issue had not arisen.

    What a disgrace - the behaviour of a D- bookie - one step away from a blatant scam.
    Betcoin A+ book and always has been. Play by the rules and you are fine.

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