1. #36
    Optional
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    Betcoin have now paid the OP

    Betcoin Statement:


    We thank you for your excellent feedback. We would like to share some additional information with you that might fill in the gaps as far as why these rules are in place.

    Our major concern is not a smart guy with a calculator in his hand who browses through sites for arbitrage opportunities. Obviously, in these cases, it would be easy enough to limit him, just as any sportsbook could with any sharp bettor. The sites you named provide an exceptional product and a difference between them and us is that Betcoin is primarily an anonymous site. Therefore, limiting an account or paying out the winnings and closing the account are less effective, since players can open additional accounts.

    Through our investigations into these matters, we have been able to pay several informants for information on the syndicates who are creating these accounts, often hundreds at a time, and using these forking
    (surebet) scanners to rake in profits all day, every day. These informants have given us much information into these syndicates, including which VPNs they are using, which scanners they are using and how KYC is faked. They have provided us access to Telegram and Discord groups where this is discussed. As most of these scanners are based in Russia, this issue got to be so prevalent that we had to restrict the entire nation, which is one of the largest betting nations on the planet. These are multi-million dollar organizations and through these groups, we have learned that they started flying people to different countries so they could pass KYC. This led to us also restricting Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine, but they have an endless bankroll and the money they spend circumventing KYC is negligible to the profits earned.

    As mentioned, we keep improving our technology, but they keep finding new ways to beat it, so this is an ongoing battle and we take it extremely seriously. Without getting into too much proprietary security info, there are multiple ways we can determine that these services are being used. One is that some of them actually find and place the bets for you. If more bets are placed in a certain time period than would be humanly possible, it will raise suspicion. If a number of accounts are placing the exact same bets at the exact same time on low tiered markets, it will raise suspicion. If a number of accounts are created in the same time period and all using a VPN service known to be used by fraudulent players, it will raise suspicion. Once this suspicion is created, an investigation will begin. We may start by asking them for their honesty or matching crypto transactions.

    If it comes down to it, the final step in the process is that we use our paid memberships to each of these scanners and will go back through the history of the bets displayed. We determine whether the matches and markets bet on were used on these sites at the times the bets were placed. As you can imagine, to go through all this data on multiple sites takes considerable time and money, so this is done in the extreme cases, but it is a necessity. If nothing is found, the funds are released. 95% of the time, if we get that far something is found.

    So you say that the winnings should be released and the account should be limited or closed, but we hope this helps explain why in some cases, that is not going to happen. You have to also keep in mind that much of this play goes under the radar and they successfully withdraw, dump the account and start a new one. So while you think we are freerolling them by being able to seize their winnings, they are actually freerolling us, because they will either get the winnings or get their deposit back and move onto a new account.

    Once again, we would like to stress that unless the abuse is proven beyond a doubt, the player will be paid. Fortunately, we have beefed up our security team and technology and have gotten extremely good at proving this, when it occurs. The rule you have stated saying that this can be done at our discretion is for the most extreme circumstances and is used on people who are proven to be maliciously violating our rules.
    We will continue to review these suspicious accounts with heavy scrutiny and take the appropriate action, based on the level of offense. As always, if a player disagrees with our resolution, we are open to 3rd party mediation or they can contact our licensing body.

    A good sportsbook will use discretion to make fair decisions, which are not cut and dry based on what is listed in the TOS. In the case of the OP, the account was not closed for arbing, but for multi-accounting due to the funds being sent from the same Bitcoin wallet. As he has now provided adequate proof that he is a separate entity from the other player, we have sent his winnings to a Bitcoin address provided.
    Last edited by Optional; 04-29-21 at 12:54 PM.

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  2. #37
    carax
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    Firstly SportsBettor74, Optional thanks for you support.
    I think facts mentioned by Sportsbettor74 were very important.
    Without yours reaction they will ignore me for sure.

    Today i send to betcoin.ag my revolut statement.

    They answered as following:

    Hello, we cannot reopen your account, as you have violated our terms,
    however please provide a BTC address and we will send the remaining
    winnings.

    Regards,
    Betcoin Security

    &

    The funds have been sent now, due to you proving that you are a
    different individual than the other account.

    Thank you for your patience,
    Betcoin Support


    My account is still closed. Winnings were paid to me.

    I don't recommend this company. Unless you like to fight for own money.

    Thanks Guys.




  3. #38
    SportsBettor74
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    I am glad it has all worked out (on this occasion) for all concerned.

    Thanks also to Betcoin for the two public statements issued.

    The statements were well written and well reasoned.

    It is the first time I have seen a bookmaker making these kinds of public, reasoned statements and kudos is due.

    I think it would be good for the industry if - in cases such as this - bookmakers were more inclined to issue such statements.

    I have issues with [some of the content of] the statement(s) - however now that the core issue has been resolved it would serve no purpose to comment further.

    Again - congratulations to the OP and the Other for receiving all funds due - and congratulations to Betcoin for its transparent and public statement(s) here (a first as far as I can recall).

  4. #39
    DontTailMe
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    Quote Originally Posted by SportsBettor74 View Post
    I am glad it has all worked out (on this occasion) for all concerned.

    Thanks also to Betcoin for the two public statements issued.

    The statements were well written and well reasoned.

    It is the first time I have seen a bookmaker making these kinds of public, reasoned statements and kudos is due.

    I think it would be good for the industry if - in cases such as this - bookmakers were more inclined to issue such statements.

    I have issues with [some of the content of] the statement(s) - however now that the core issue has been resolved it would serve no purpose to comment further.

    Again - congratulations to the OP and the Other for receiving all funds due - and congratulations to Betcoin for its transparent and public statement(s) here (a first as far as I can recall).
    I agree that the Betcoin responses are insightful and that the important thing is the players were paid. I'd just like to point out that everything we know about these players points to them being small time - at least not part of a sophisticated arbitrage syndicate having hundreds of accounts and a bankroll big enough to fly people around the continent for KYC. I don't doubt that such challenges exist, especially for anonymous books, but perhaps these guys aren't part of it.

  5. #40
    raiders72001
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    Quote Originally Posted by SportsBettor74 View Post

    Again - congratulations to the OP and the Other for receiving all funds due - and congratulations to Betcoin for its transparent and public statement(s) here (a first as far as I can recall).
    Also Optional did a great job on how he handled this dispute.

  6. #41
    SportsBettor74
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    Quote Originally Posted by raiders72001 View Post
    Also Optional did a great job on how he handled this dispute.
    Yes he did! Well played all round.

  7. #42
    Optional
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    Quote Originally Posted by raiders72001 View Post

    Also Optional did a great job on how he handled this dispute.
    David at Betcoin has shown a few times now that he is fair minded and pragmatic. And will do the right thing all on his own without us trying to influence things.
    Points Awarded:

    raiders72001 gave Optional 2 Betpoint(s) for this post.

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  8. #43
    gryzonko
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    I am very pleased that both parties have reached an agreement, and the mediation of the SBR has been successful.Unfortunately, I am still far from enthusiastic about the rules of operation of betcoin, especially their T&c .

    10.2 If the player is suspected of fraudulent actions including but not limited to: participating in any type of collusion with other players, development of strategies aimed at unfaithful winnings, arbitrage betting, use of forking services, use of surebet or valuebet services, fraudulent actions against other online casinos or payment providers, ********** procedures with a credit card or denial of some payments made, other types of cheating, providing incorrect information about personal data during registration or is known to have gone bankrupt in the country of his residence, the Company reserves the right to terminate the user account and suspend all payouts to the player.
    10.3 This decision is at sole discretion of the Company and the player will not be notified or informed about the reasons of such actions.
    8.7 Accounts must be self-funded. Any accounts found to have the same source of funds will be dealt with per our policy regarding multi-accounting.



    10.2 & 10.3 was detailed described by SportsBettor74. Now time to 8.7 - Do You realize , how many Betcoin users make crypto curriences transactions with each other? it is cheap, fast, without intermediaries... so I suppose, correct answer is a plenty. If we mix it 10.2 & 10 & 8.7, it turns out that any of these accounts can be closed and winnings confiscated if Betcoin doesn't like their style of betting. And that without providing any evidence to the user.This practically means that due their T&C the customer fundamental rights doesnt exist in Betcoin.

    One year ago I was frauded by 1bet for over 6000 euro. The accusation also applied multiple accounts, but there are more similarities:
    - Both companies licensed on Curacao
    - Both companies menaded/operated from Bulgaria
    - In both cases, no evidence was presented to the user
    - In both cases, bookmaker returned the deposit, refusing to return the winnings.In Betcoin i was "lucky" on negaticve balance. In 1bet I had used this account almost 10 years, so so it turned out that the whole balance comes from the winnings
    - in both cases, bookmaker starts these actions after withdrawal request.
    Too many similarities ...Ok, You can say - There aren't many complaints about Betcoin, also Betcoin cooperates with SBR. Right, but for many years 1bet has had a positive reputation also.Just be careful with Betcoin. Bulgarian bosses have different concepts of business ethics, and this is something to keep in mind.


    At end a few words to SBR




    1bet is still no blacklisted or downgraded in SBR ratings. Almost 50 victims , almost 200 000 euro fraud by 1bet and others from Bellona N.v. I ask to update SBR ranking many times, other victims made it too. But 1bet ranking is still C+ . Its SHAME SBR

  9. #44
    Optional
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    ^^^ I bet you also wonder why you and your pal can't solve your own problems too eh gryzonko? Dufus.
    Points Awarded:

    Alfie White gave Optional 2 Betpoint(s) for this post.

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  10. #45
    rconners86
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    That's just how it goes with betting services though...you really don't have a recourse except the thread of humiliation, which we all hate doing.

    Just because they bitcoin doesn't mean they're not gonna be like everyone else although personally only heard good things about betcoin. Switch to decentralized exchanges where there is not middle man. Polymarket, Augur, Omen.

  11. #46
    Limited
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    If the player is suspected of fraudulent actions including but not limited to: participating in any type of collusion with other players, development of strategies aimed at unfaithful winnings, arbitrage betting
    Basically saying, If you play smart we will confiscate. This rule is not a rule it is just an excuse for freerolling sharp bettors. It make sense to hunt the multi-accounting, bots action, money laundering. But confiscating arbers' winnings is exactly what they say they don't bother. A guy with a calculator, may use one or more of commercial arb services, and of course he is playing with his only one account, but his bets will be same like bets from all others arbers/syndicats/bad players or just smart players with a calculator. When an ARB appear everyone is jumping on it, multi account-Russian syndicates and little smart guys with calculators.

    Betcoin and every other bookie should take responsibility for odds they publish. If someone place a bet on the offered lines doesn't make him yet a criminal. Even though some criminals will jump on the same line. So @Betcoin, improve your system, API-s, change the odds faster, employ better odds makers, traders, basically become a better bookie.

    EDIT Betcoin or 1BET not sure to which bookie those rules above aply. But anyway, my comment regards every single softbookie with an unfair rules policy and practices.
    Last edited by Limited; 05-06-21 at 09:45 AM.

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