[bubba]

If this is true, it won't be for long. Nevada law (and other jurisdictions) give great deference to casinos correcting mistakes, and I imagine their lobbying power will extend this to all legalized sports betting states. There's certainly no one taking this up with congressmen on behalf of the degenerate gambler, that's for sure.

Do you have any examples of a wagering ticket in Nevada not being honored? I never heard of such a thing.

[Barrakuda]

I could go all night long posting the wagers 5 dimes deleted. My point is, how am I supposed to know when a line is an "error" or good "value"? I should check all the other sites, to confirm my line is too good so I shouldn't bet it?

Still confused,
Hubie

Maybe the first 20 times they caught you picking off bad lines should have been a clue? I have no idea why they haven't booted you yet.

[DroopyDog]

I love how he is playing dumb saying Twins have same record so they should be same price

Dude, you are lucky they havent shut down your account yet.

[Optional]

The OP is within his rights to pick out off market numbers.

But arbing them against other books is a very dangerous thing to do.


5Dimes do make too many errors. I am not sure why. But in the past Tony would warn, ban or limit any account that kept hitting them like the OP appears to have been doing.

Most of the bets OP has posted look like very obvious errors though. Even without looking over the actual market.

[semibluff]

The OP is within his rights to pick out off market numbers...

Does a book have the right to free-roll anyone who does that?
I'm not saying 5Dimes or any other book does that. I'm just asking what's within rights.

[Optional]

Does a book have the right to free-roll anyone who does that?
I'm not saying 5Dimes or any other book does that. I'm just asking what's within rights.

Personally, I do think they need to take more responsibility for their errors.

I don't think it's a plan to freeroll anyone though. I suspect it's their software or systems.

The OP makes a good point asking if CLE indians at 20-1 AL Pennant is safe to bet when it's 10-1 at Westgate.

I don't really have a good blanket answer, looking at them on a case by case basis is really the only way I think.

I can't disagree with you in principal. Book the bet, pay the bet, seems to be a lost concept now. If it still existed I bet we would see almost no errors.

[Shifty]

Books should be penalized if they cancel a bet because of their mistake. Pay the bettor $50 or something. I got screwed this year by one book who canceled a prop bet at -135 when other books were at -160/-165.

[icon]

I can't disagree with you in principal. Book the bet, pay the bet, seems to be a lost concept now. If it still existed I bet we would see almost no errors.

Agreed. At least 5Dimes voided the wager early and not after the fact.

[JoeCool20]

My point is, how am I supposed to know when a line is an "error" or good "value"? ?
Hubie

You can't know. What these S-books are doing is free-rolling players and then just cancelling people's winners.

ESPECIALLY live bets! Because nobody can stop them! Hell, yours aren't even live bets and they are cheating you!

LOL They put a line up, take bets on it, then turn around and say their line was wrong!!

IN the USA all casinos payoff when THEY are the ones that put the line up and accepted a bet!

[JoeCool20]

Maybe the first 20 times they caught you picking off bad lines should have been a clue? I have no idea why they haven't booted you yet.

I love how he is playing dumb saying Twins have same record so they should be same price

Dude, you are lucky they havent shut down your account yet.

LOL So incredible when you people side with the book when THEY puts the odds out and accepted bets on those odds!

You think it is the players responsibility to try to haphazardly "figure out" which of the S-books posted lines they should

avoid betting? LOL Suggesting the player try to do that would be an obvious joke right?

Please tell me that you 2 aren't suggesting that people should only make bets on lines/odds that they DON'T like

and avoid betting lines that they do like? LOL

[Optional]

You can't know. What these S-books are doing is free-rolling players and then just cancelling people's winners.

ESPECIALLY live bets! Because nobody can stop them! Hell, yours aren't even live bets and they are cheating you!

LOL They put a line up, take bets on it, then turn around and say their line was wrong!!

IN the USA all casinos payoff when THEY are the ones that put the line up and accepted a bet!

It's not a free roll issue here. They appear to have cancelled them fairly fast each time. I am assuming before the winner is known from the times.

[JoeCool20]

It's not a free roll issue here. They appear to have cancelled them fairly fast each time. I am assuming before the winner is known from the times.

It's not a "Freeroll" in this case because they didn't wait until it looked like they were going to lose before they cancelled
the futures bets. The issue is them putting a line out, accepting wagers on that line, and then coming back later and
"changing their mind" and saying "We aren't accepting the bet that you made on a line that we put out."
Like I said, in the USA, the Books pay out on their fuk ups. They don't say "We fuked up, but you pay the price!"
This guy is saying he never knows which of his bets will "count" and which ones will not count!
Overseas, If they put a line out there, then later they realize that they don't like the line, then they have no repercussions for it, because they just void it, and cheat the hell out of the player!
It should be quite simple, If you put a line out and accept a bet, BEFORE you realize that you "don't like" the line, then you change the line, but you HONOR the bets that have already been made on the other line! You don't go back and CHEAT the player! You honor the damn bets and you pay them off!

Even you can't "take up" for them and say that ain't/shouldn't bet true!

[DontTailMe]

Do you have any examples of a wagering ticket in Nevada not being honored? I never heard of such a thing.

I'm referring to casino games - tables and machines - where there's a long history of the law siding with the casinos when it comes to mistakes, be they caused by humans or software.

I can't answer your sports wagering question. I just wouldn't be surprised if that's where things move to, given the casino game precedent. Big casinos can afford lobbyists and expensive lawyers. Meanwhile, there aren't any gambler unions that I'm aware of who can diligently fight for the other side.

[DontTailMe]

LOL So incredible when you people side with the book when THEY puts the odds out and accepted bets on those odds!

You think it is the players responsibility to try to haphazardly "figure out" which of the S-books posted lines they should

avoid betting? LOL Suggesting the player try to do that would be an obvious joke right?

Please tell me that you 2 aren't suggesting that people should only make bets on lines/odds that they DON'T like

and avoid betting lines that they do like? LOL

You hit the nail on the head. This is what irks me about the whole "bad line" thing. Where do we draw the line? Am I supposed to avoid a particular line if I believe the odds give me a 20% edge? Yes? Okay, how about a 10% edge? 5%? Am I not supposed to look for any edge at all? It's so arbitrary and counter to how gamblers are supposed to play. If bettors didn't believe they had an advantage when they placed a bet, then there would be a lot less action. Let the gamblers look out for themselves and the sportsbooks manage their own lines. I don't get to cancel my mistakes, even if I know I bet the wrong side of a line immediately after clicking "submit". All I can do is be pissed at myself, move on, and try not to repeat the same mistake again. But the books can do whatever they want.

[jjgold]

guy was a clear shot taker and 5 Dimes caught him

[dxp]

agreed that 5dimes certainly has way too many error/wager issues.. but these are future type bets that are clearly (or at the very least, shady) off the mark to even average bettors.

the OP knows what he is going for. anyone who is willing to drop close to $500 on the yanks for the AL pennant knows they are NOT the same as the twins. they are neck and neck with the astros, and should be stronger by the time the postseason comes around. +480 is a wet dream. i'm surprised he hasn't been warned.

[Barrakuda]

LOL So incredible when you people side with the book when THEY puts the odds out and accepted bets on those odds!

You think it is the players responsibility to try to haphazardly "figure out" which of the S-books posted lines they should

avoid betting? LOL Suggesting the player try to do that would be an obvious joke right?

Please tell me that you 2 aren't suggesting that people should only make bets on lines/odds that they DON'T like

and avoid betting lines that they do like? LOL

Yeah, OP just happened to "like" top 10 odds on a random golfer -- not because the odds were higher than the same golfer's TO WIN odds, but bc he really wanted to bet him top 10 and just stumbled across a great price...

Of course all books should be liable for posted lines, but they are not regulated and so they never will be. Even in the tightly regulated US equities market, FINRA will cancel trades that occur far away from the established market price. I should know. I had a limit order to buy at 1.30 that filled and then was cancelled 5 hours later. I received a report stating that the price was too far away from where the stock had been trading (~$1.75) and would be voided. Same shit happened in the flash crash of 2013. Fills that were ~10% below market were arbitrarily cancelled the next day.

The point is, any time you get an off-market price, it may very well get voided.

[semibluff]

Personally, I do think they need to take more responsibility for their errors.

I don't think it's a plan to freeroll anyone though. I suspect it's their software or systems.

The OP makes a good point asking if CLE indians at 20-1 AL Pennant is safe to bet when it's 10-1 at Westgate.

I don't really have a good blanket answer, looking at them on a case by case basis is really the only way I think.

I can't disagree with you in principal. Book the bet, pay the bet, seems to be a lost concept now. If it still existed I bet we would see almost no errors.

It isn't a good business model for a book to have a bad line. They suffer a financial hit if they honour it and a public relations hit without profit if they void it. The question is whether they should boot customers who seek out the bad lines or punish them by rechecking and voiding bad line winners whilst ignoring losers, thus intentionally free-rolling them. In their position i'd be sorely tempted to free-roll them. I don't have a problem with books voiding bad lines. I'm not a fan of rewarding people for effectively spotting a spelling mistake. What I do have a problem with is the lack of definition over what constitutes a bad line. There isn't enough pressure from regulators and 3rd party sites, (such as SBR), on books to have a clear policy on what constitutes a bad line. "Book the bet, pay the bet" by itself isn't the answer because it will just result in tiny limits for everyone until they've proven their trustworthiness to a book. Tough issue to fix, more so when it comes to prop betting.

[TommieGunshot]

If this is true, it won't be for long. Nevada law (and other jurisdictions) give great deference to casinos correcting mistakes, and I imagine their lobbying power will extend this to all legalized sports betting states. There's certainly no one taking this up with congressmen on behalf of the degenerate gambler, that's for sure.

Completely wrong. In Nevada all tickets go as written. Other states haven't faced much scrutiny in this area yet, and they probably won't, because the sportsbooks know they can't win. Non-US sportsbooks are the only ones that have any history of either canceling bets or refusing to pay.

[TommieGunshot]

Personally, I do think they need to take more responsibility for their errors.

So long as places like sbr rate them as A+ when they pull so much D- shit like this, they won't need to take any responsibility at all

[TommieGunshot]

guy was a clear shot taker and 5 Dimes caught him

It should not be possible for a well-run sportsbook to allow players the chance to take this many shots at bad lines. I find one or two per year at all the books I have accounts with. This guy finds four in one week at 5Dimes

They need to stop posting bad lines every day and they need to honor their bets. Plenty of other sportsbooks do it, there is no reason for 5Dimes to not do it, other than being scam artists.

[icon]

It should not be possible for a well-run sportsbook to allow players the chance to take this many shots at bad lines. I find one or two per year at all the books I have accounts with. This guy finds four in one week at 5Dimes

They need to stop posting bad lines every day and they need to honor their bets. Plenty of other sportsbooks do it, there is no reason for 5Dimes to not do it, other than being scam artists.

I like the way Pinnacle handles bad line wagers. They give you the choice of being paid on the wager if you agree to have your account closed OR void the bet and keep your account open.

I know this because I had it happen to me years ago.

I still have my Pinnacle account.

[bubba]

It isn't a good business model for a book to have a bad line. They suffer a financial hit if they honour it and a public relations hit without profit if they void it. The question is whether they should boot customers who seek out the bad lines or punish them by rechecking and voiding bad line winners whilst ignoring losers, thus intentionally free-rolling them. In their position i'd be sorely tempted to free-roll them. I don't have a problem with books voiding bad lines. I'm not a fan of rewarding people for effectively spotting a spelling mistake. What I do have a problem with is the lack of definition over what constitutes a bad line. There isn't enough pressure from regulators and 3rd party sites, (such as SBR), on books to have a clear policy on what constitutes a bad line. "Book the bet, pay the bet" by itself isn't the answer because it will just result in tiny limits for everyone until they've proven their trustworthiness to a book. Tough issue to fix, more so when it comes to prop betting.

You admit you would be tempted to freeroll them. Its tempting. Its also wrong. Which is a major reason players need protections from book claiming "bad line" when they choose.

I disagree with you on "book the bet paying the bet" being impossible. New jersey does it. Pretty sure nevada does it. The limits are just fine. I just think the most Obvious errors should be cancelled. It should be the obvious 1s that (nearly) everyone agrees its a bad line. MINUS 10 instead of +10. or +40 instead of plus 4. If a book is unhappy with a player betting "bad lines" that arent cancellable by this definition, boot the player and be done with it. I dont think this should be a controversial stance or difficult one to implement.

[bubba]

So long as places like sbr rate them as A+ when they pull so much D- shit like this, they won't need to take any responsibility at all

Not commenting specifically on this case, but I couldnt agree more as a general rule. A top rating from SBR represents complacency with what a book is doing (in my opinion).

[JoeCool20]

It's the easiest shit in the world and I have already said it once. If they put out a "bad line" then it is THEIR fault!

They should change the line immediately upon realizing that they don't like it, but HONOR the bets that were already

made on the original line. USA books so just that! Offshore books cancel the bets and cheat the players.

Because they have no one to "answer to" for any mistake! If I was them I'd cheat the players out of every fukin

winning bet that ever won! LOL Why not? There sure as hell ain't no governing body to stop me!

[TommieGunshot]

I like the way Pinnacle handles bad line wagers. They give you the choice of being paid on the wager if you agree to have your account closed OR void the bet and keep your account open.

I know this because I had it happen to me years ago.

I still have my Pinnacle account.

Key here is that it happened once years ago. How the hell does 5Dimes let it happen four times in one week?

and of course Pinnacle will never limit someone for betting "good" lines like 5Dimes does to a lot of people

[eaglesfan371]

I like the way Pinnacle handles bad line wagers. They give you the choice of being paid on the wager if you agree to have your account closed OR void the bet and keep your account open.

I know this because I had it happen to me years ago.

I still have my Pinnacle account.

First compromise I’ve heard an online book make on this that I actually think is fair for both sides.

[semibluff]

You admit you would be tempted to freeroll them. Its tempting. Its also wrong. Which is a major reason players need protections from book claiming "bad line" when they choose.

I disagree with you on "book the bet paying the bet" being impossible. New jersey does it. Pretty sure nevada does it. The limits are just fine. I just think the most Obvious errors should be cancelled. It should be the obvious 1s that (nearly) everyone agrees its a bad line. MINUS 10 instead of +10. or +40 instead of plus 4. If a book is unhappy with a player betting "bad lines" that arent cancellable by this definition, boot the player and be done with it. I dont think this should be a controversial stance or difficult one to implement.

+110 rather than -110 will be an obvious error in a 2 outcome event when the posted odds are +110; -110 but it certainly won't be obvious in a lot of multi-outcome events, especially where those events normally have very high level of juice. I'll use the F1 British Grand Prix as an example. 1 book has Hamilton at -111, another has him at -150. Both prices are correct.

I didn't say "Book the bet, pay the bet" was impossible. I said by itself it wasn't the answer. Large outlets, such as casinos in Vegas, have a comparatively large workforce to constantly monitor markets. Small books don't have that luxury.

[dxp]

expecting a book to pay for every bad line is absurd. if you see a job posting with an annual salary desciption of $1,500,000, when you 100% know it's clearly $150,000.. are you going to apply, get the job and then demand they pay you $1.5 million because an extra 0 was accidentally added?

if the twins are +300 to win the AL pennant, it could easily appear as +3000 because of the simplest mistake. EVERYONE would know there is NO WAY IN HELL IT'S +3000. so some douchebag who purposely hustles to drop $1k on the prop should be rewarded $30,000 instead of $3,000 if it played out a winner? that's being a scumbag.

it's a problem if a book tries to reverse/cancel something like +130 to -130. but these lines that are way out there are clear errors. trying to wager on them knowing it's wrong either makes you a cheater or a liar (when you're asked and you deny knowing it was incorrect.) i've seen plenty of times where matches have started and they are still available to wager on because the timing is off. some far enough to the point where the match is almost a lock. i'd never consider wagering on one, nor would i expect a book to honor such an obvious cheat.

i would love to see the reverse end of that.. like if someone were to accidentally screw up a number when receiving a payout.. and the book says "oh? too bad. we honored your request and you messed up. that 11k you wanted is ours now."

[bubba]

+110 rather than -110 will be an obvious error in a 2 outcome event when the posted odds are +110; -110 but it certainly won't be obvious in a lot of multi-outcome events, especially where those events normally have very high level of juice. I'll use the F1 British Grand Prix as an example. 1 book has Hamilton at -111, another has him at -150. Both prices are correct.

I didn't say "Book the bet, pay the bet" was impossible. I said by itself it wasn't the answer. Large outlets, such as casinos in Vegas, have a comparatively large workforce to constantly monitor markets. Small books don't have that luxury.

-111 instead of -150 should not be cancelled no matter the market. Ever. Just pay it. If you think customer is taking a shot, boot him/her. Books dont need the protection of -111 vs -150. Much more important players have protection of wagers being honored. In my opinion.

I have seen as many "bad lines" at American shops vs offshore shops over the last year. (Online). I dont think your theory that legal shops have more resources and therefore put up sharper #s/ less mistakes is correct.

Books both offshore and local need protections against large mistakes that threaten their business. Otherwise I say just pay it.

[kcburg]

Maybe you can guys explain this one from June 10th. And tell me what the "Clear" correct line should have been?

Future/Contest wager XXXXXXX posted on Monday, Jun 10 2019 1:06PM was deleted on Monday, Jun 10 2019 2:30PM.

Golf - Major - US Open 2019 - Top 20 - Haotong Li +3300
Risking $19.00 to win $627.00

Reason: Clear line error, line should have been Haotong Li +600 not +3300
Contact customer support if you need further clarification regarding this deleted ticket.

You should write them back and thank them for cancelling this bet, saved you money. Guess it wasn't a bad line after all.

I got into it with them over a NASCAR wager they cancelled due to a bad line(it also lost), I was told to call them if I have any questions about a line being good or bad...such a joke.

[TommieGunshot]

expecting a book to pay for every bad line is absurd. if you see a job posting with an annual salary desciption of $1,500,000, when you 100% know it's clearly $150,000.. are you going to apply, get the job and then demand they pay you $1.5 million because an extra 0 was accidentally added?

I have had plenty of times where I go to bet a line and the book won't take the bet, saying the line has moved. That is perfectly fine and that would be the equivalent of this job offer.

Once I have a contract we both agreed to that says I get paid that much, there will be a lot of problems for them if they try to refuse. The courts and lawyers will make sure I get paid.

[rzagza11]

General rule, especially if you have a large balance, is to NOT bet lines that are clear line errors. You are putting yourself at the discretion of the book to really drop the hammer on you when you attempt that BS. It's not even worth it.

[semibluff]

-111 instead of -150 should not be cancelled no matter the market. Ever. Just pay it. If you think customer is taking a shot, boot him/her. Books dont need the protection of -111 vs -150. Much more important players have protection of wagers being honored. In my opinion.

I have seen as many "bad lines" at American shops vs offshore shops over the last year. (Online). I dont think your theory that legal shops have more resources and therefore put up sharper #s/ less mistakes is correct.

Books both offshore and local need protections against large mistakes that threaten their business. Otherwise I say just pay it.

So if the market on a 2 outcome event is -150; +130 and a book has inadvertently posted -111; +130 they should pay whichever side wins? Madness.

[PaperTrail07]

I somewhat agree.....they need to be SHARP.....last UFC holm was +4000 on Heritage-by decision prop...when it was meant to be +400....I mean she was +300ish ML....I bet it for a $50 spot then SBR posters pointed out it was an error....I quickly let heritage know as I DIDNT WANT TO BE FREEROLLED ON AS WELL......I didn't have time to search other lines/websites at that time.....like he said they aren't paying---and were not aware until I said something....they really must get ZERO bets on MMA props at heritage....

Personally, I do think they need to take more responsibility for their errors.

I don't think it's a plan to freeroll anyone though. I suspect it's their software or systems.

The OP makes a good point asking if CLE indians at 20-1 AL Pennant is safe to bet when it's 10-1 at Westgate.

I don't really have a good blanket answer, looking at them on a case by case basis is really the only way I think.

I can't disagree with you in principal. Book the bet, pay the bet, seems to be a lost concept now. If it still existed I bet we would see almost no errors.