1. #1
    Sobob99
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    Sportsbook limits

    Have you been limited at any sportsbook? What actions have you taken to overcome your limits? I mean I understand limiting a person to $500 a bet, or fine maybe even $50 a bet, but $2.50 a bet, is that even ethical?

  2. #2
    Optional
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sobob99 View Post
    Have you been limited at any sportsbook? What actions have you taken to overcome your limits? I mean I understand limiting a person to $500 a bet, or fine maybe even $50 a bet, but $2.50 a bet, is that even ethical?
    Would you consider it less ethical than the alternative, being refused service at all?

    I don't think it's a question of ethics anyway. A business can offer whatever it likes. If we don't like it then don't use them.

  3. #3
    KVB
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    In my opinion, the very small limits were only questionable from an ethics stand point when a certain rollover was agreed to at time of deposit. If you get set up up with thousands in rollover requirements then suddenly get limited to a couple of bucks a bet, it could take a prohibitively long time to reach the requirement.

  4. #4
    Sobob99
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    I understand that they have a right to limit anyone, it's their site. More importantly, what have you guys done to raise your limits again?

  5. #5
    Alfa1234
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sobob99 View Post
    I understand that they have a right to limit anyone, it's their site. More importantly, what have you guys done to raise your limits again?
    Once you are limited, it's almost impossible to get the limits raised again. Your only option is to send an email and simply argue your case. But 99,99% of the time, this will not help. Once you are deemed a sharp player (or arber) you can forget the account.

    Take it as a badge of honour that the book labeled you as too good for them.
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  6. #6
    jjgold
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    They are business

    Limiting is great business practice

  7. #7
    Surrender88
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    I've been cut off by bookies before... they can do whatever they want... its their business... and I agree small limits are just another way of them saying "we don't want your business anymore"

  8. #8
    schmidt32
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    agreed

  9. #9
    thomorino
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    Its a business and they can do what they want but the best run books do not limit, it is not a good business practice unless you are a bonus books on a limited budget. If a sharp bettor that is winning consistently bets with you, books should use the info they are giving you to move your lines or bet the game yourself, no reason to limit. The best run books and Casinos in Vegas don't limit players because they don't need to.

  10. #10
    sheepgotwool
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    Should be a place to post on the forum in a separate thread where posters are banned at. Than we could get a glimpse of how quick books are to ban. Anotherwards all posters could simply say that they have been banned or limited at a particular site. That would also reflect the business practice(s) of those particular books. I totally agree that some books limit or ban way to fast. I would like to see how many people on this forum and other forums that have been banned or limited from certain sites. It is only fair to the player !!!!

  11. #11
    sheepgotwool
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    Also i want to add that it is quicker in today's climate to get limited faster than ever before . This is a fact. The player needs some leverage and i think this site should do something about this.

  12. #12
    TheMoneyShot
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheepgotwool View Post
    Should be a place to post on the forum in a separate thread where posters are banned at. Than we could get a glimpse of how quick books are to ban. Anotherwards all posters could simply say that they have been banned or limited at a particular site. That would also reflect the business practice(s) of those particular books. I totally agree that some books limit or ban way to fast. I would like to see how many people on this forum and other forums that have been banned or limited from certain sites. It is only fair to the player !!!!
    There are a few sportsbooks now... that post right at the bottom of their page... "We Do Not Want Your Action If You Are A Professional Player." MyBookie.ag They send me sh#$ all the time in the mail. Have no idea why.

  13. #13
    Drydin
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    Casinos in Vegas don't limit players because they don't need to
    Not only will almost all of them limit you now but some will ban you all together. Especially as it pertains to there
    mobile apps. If you are betting over the counter it is harder to get limited or banned but still possible.

  14. #14
    hello1234567
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    I don't play the books, only the Live dealer casino. Been given the boot from three sites for being a "winning" player.

  15. #15
    Hareeba!
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    I disagree with those who say it's okay for a book to impose absurdly low limits or close accounts.
    In my view it is actually illegal as it amounts to unfair discrimination.
    In many jurisdictions the law strikes down terms and conditions which are unfair.
    For a company to deny service to a customer without explaining why whilst it continues to serve other customers the same product is clearly "unconscionable conduct" and thus illegal in my view.
    I understand that there is a class action along these lines underway in Spain against Bet365.
    I maintain hope that it is successful and results in a flow on across the industry worldwide.
    Last edited by Hareeba!; 08-17-17 at 10:25 PM.
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  16. #16
    thomorino
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hareeba! View Post
    I disagree with those who say it's okay for a book to impose absurdly low limits or close accounts.
    In my view it is actually illegal as it amounts to unfair discrimination.
    In many jurisdictions the law strikes down terms and conditions which are unfair.
    For a company to deny service to a customer without explaining why whilst it continues to serve other customers the same product is clearly unfair discrimination and thus illegal in my view.
    I understand that there is a class action along these lines underway in Spain against Bet365.
    I maintain hope that it is successful and results in a flow on across the industry worldwide.
    The laws in the US which obviously don't apply to offshroe books are clear, as long as you don't discriminate based on race, religion, gender, or ethnicity, you can pretty much refuse who you want to. As far as vegas casinos, there are absolutely casinos in vegas that will take sharp action, some like William Hill will not.

  17. #17
    evo34
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    Discrimination based on IQ will probably always be allowed.

  18. #18
    DaveAaron
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    interesting takes, on how the sportsbook support continues to be steady
    all the while the following practices are abused....
    account closures, absence of consumer protection, abusive clauses and betting limitations.....by bet365

    not to mention IOVATION -IESNARE FILES, DROPPED TO ALL THOSE LAPTOPS WHICH ARE RESTRICTED.....

    I GUESS YOU AGREE WITH BREAKING THE LAW THEN OPTIONAL and Co....
    and breaching the Data Protection act , and our rights to privacy,


  19. #19
    Alfa1234
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    Quote Originally Posted by thomorino View Post
    Its a business and they can do what they want but the best run books do not limit, it is not a good business practice unless you are a bonus books on a limited budget. If a sharp bettor that is winning consistently bets with you, books should use the info they are giving you to move your lines or bet the game yourself, no reason to limit. The best run books and Casinos in Vegas don't limit players because they don't need to.
    This only works if you have tremendous volume. So called sharps work with a 1 to 3% edge so you cannot blindly follow them. Many, besides Pinnacle (and the other Asians) have tried and failed at this. It cannot work if your action is not reasonable balanced all the time and the vast majority of books does not have the client base for that. They solved this by simply adjusting their lines when Pinnacle changes an odd. Pinnacle leads the pack.

  20. #20
    thomorino
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alfa1234 View Post
    This only works if you have tremendous volume. So called sharps work with a 1 to 3% edge so you cannot blindly follow them. Many, besides Pinnacle (and the other Asians) have tried and failed at this. It cannot work if your action is not reasonable balanced all the time and the vast majority of books does not have the client base for that. They solved this by simply adjusting their lines when Pinnacle changes an odd. Pinnacle leads the pack.
    It has nothing to do with volume, its all about who your customers are. If you volume is 80% sharp it won't work, if your volume is 50% sharp and 50% recreational it will work fine. The reason most books don't want sharp bettors is because they think they can make money by just attracting recreational bettors or squares. This kind of business model is stupid and its exactly why bonus books like topbet and betislands are having trouble or have gone under, if you don't balance your book in the short-term you are betting not booking in the long-term.

  21. #21
    Alfa1234
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    Quote Originally Posted by thomorino View Post
    It has nothing to do with volume, its all about who your customers are. If you volume is 80% sharp it won't work, if your volume is 50% sharp and 50% recreational it will work fine. The reason most books don't want sharp bettors is because they think they can make money by just attracting recreational bettors or squares. This kind of business model is stupid and its exactly why bonus books like topbet and betislands are having trouble or have gone under, if you don't balance your book in the short-term you are betting not booking in the long-term.
    You used "nothing to do with volume" and "if you don't balance your book in the short-term" in 1 breath. Kinda contradictory isn't it? Even if, and that's a huge if, your volume is 50% sharp and 50% recreational, it still won't work. As about 45% of your sharps will still make wrong bets on any give game. How do you decide which sharps to follow without enough volume? You get 1 bet and change your line...ooops our sharp was wrong this time and now we attracted a ton of action of the other side because we had the best line there. A sharp will be wrong 45-48% of the time. That's Problematic. The only way this can work is by using an enourmous "weight of money" and changing the lines as the money comes in. That's Pinnacle's model. You need a lot of volume and customers for that.
    Much easier to simply limit the sharps you have and copy the Pinnacle changes...which is how they do it now.

  22. #22
    Surrender88
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    Nobody is going to hand over 2k every week if they don't have to. If you consistently beat the book why should they keep paying you? You don't work for them. As long as they pay what it is owed take it as a compliment and move on.

    That being said, if you're good enough to be cut off... you should be resourceful enough to find other outlets. If somebody is good enough to be cut off then investing on sports is a side job at worst and a profession at best.

    I dont think there are many people that get cut off. It's an extremely small percentage.

  23. #23

  24. #24
    thomorino
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alfa1234 View Post
    You used "nothing to do with volume" and "if you don't balance your book in the short-term" in 1 breath. Kinda contradictory isn't it? Even if, and that's a huge if, your volume is 50% sharp and 50% recreational, it still won't work. As about 45% of your sharps will still make wrong bets on any give game. How do you decide which sharps to follow without enough volume? You get 1 bet and change your line...ooops our sharp was wrong this time and now we attracted a ton of action of the other side because we had the best line there. A sharp will be wrong 45-48% of the time. That's Problematic. The only way this can work is by using an enourmous "weight of money" and changing the lines as the money comes in. That's Pinnacle's model. You need a lot of volume and customers for that.
    Much easier to simply limit the sharps you have and copy the Pinnacle changes...which is how they do it now.
    And it doesn't work which is why books like Betisland and the vip books are out of business, topbet is in trouble. Pinnacle's model works for Pinnacle because Pinnacle has the right mix of sharp and recreational bettors for their business model. If you only have or mostly have recreational bettors you need to have a different line to split the action. You can balance a book with light or strong volume.

  25. #25
    Optional
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    Quote Originally Posted by thomorino View Post

    And it doesn't work which is why books like Betisland and the vip books are out of business, topbet is in trouble. Pinnacle's model works for Pinnacle because Pinnacle has the right mix of sharp and recreational bettors for their business model. If you only have or mostly have recreational bettors you need to have a different line to split the action. You can balance a book with light or strong volume.
    You are just a contrarian who will argue any point forever, no matter how wrong.

    Operators with low volume can't balance their book when half their action ends up one sided on so many markets.

  26. #26
    thomorino
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optional View Post
    You are just a contrarian who will argue any point forever, no matter how wrong.

    Operators with low volume can't balance their book when half their action ends up one sided on so many markets.
    Optional intelligence, aren't you still arguing dropping the atomic bomb on a country that attacked us was a war crime. The ability to balance your book is about WHO THE BETTORS ARE, not volume. It doesn't matter if 1k people bet or a hundred people bet, if you have a mix of sharp and recreational bettors you will be fine, if you have nearly exclusively sharp or recreational players your action will be lopsided. Volume is not the biggest reason books aren't balanced, its about the the type of bettors they have.
    Last edited by thomorino; 08-19-17 at 02:51 PM.

  27. #27
    Optional
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    "You are just a contrarian who will argue any point forever, no matter how wrong."

    Thanks for repeating the exact same tripe again anyway. Saying it again wont make it any truer though.



    But more seriously. Sportsbook & Industry sub forum tries to stick to news, sensible discussion and helping people with problems. Can you please try to restrict your repeated personal attacks and never ending contrarian arguments to Players Talk if possible. Too many threads filled up with your back and forth nonsense takes away from the usefulness of this section. Notice how no one else acts like you in this sub-forum?

  28. #28
    thomorino
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optional View Post
    "You are just a contrarian who will argue any point forever, no matter how wrong."

    Thanks for repeating the exact same tripe again anyway. Saying it again wont make it any truer though.



    But more seriously. Sportsbook & Industry sub forum tries to stick to news, sensible discussion and helping people with problems. Can you please try to restrict your repeated personal attacks and never ending contrarian arguments to Players Talk if possible. Too many threads filled up with your back and forth nonsense takes away from the usefulness of this section. Notice how no one else acts like you in this sub-forum?
    Lol, why don't you go back to betting $5 a game and shilling for shitty offshore books, from what I can tell that's pretty much all you do besides troll me. You attack me personally in every thread little guy. I've provided great info on the topbet thread I think many appreciate, not sure what your bringing to the table. Being a moderator doesn't actually mean your posts have any value.

  29. #29
    Optional
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    Quote Originally Posted by thomorino View Post

    Lol, why don't you go back to betting $5 a game and shilling for shitty offshore books, from what I can tell that's pretty much all you do besides troll me. You attack me personally in every thread little guy. I've provided great info on the topbet thread I think many appreciate, not sure what your bringing to the table. Being a moderator doesn't actually mean your posts have any value.
    Thomo, I've chipped you twice in threads with good reason. No matter how unimportant I am in your mind, please just try to take the message onboard and don't worry about the messenger so much.

  30. #30
    thomorino
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optional View Post
    Thomo, I've chipped you twice in threads with good reason. No matter how unimportant I am in your mind, please just try to take the message onboard and don't worry about the messenger so much.

    For point out that Jeff Nadu is a fraud. He is a fraud and the SBR community is better off for knowing he's a fraud. I like SBR and respect the company but this guy is a total fraud. He actually deleted his college football picks at the beginning of the year in addition to deleting his April picks in MLB at the beginning of this year. You are an over emotional person who does not like facts.

    My point here in this thread is common sense as well. Bonus books like GTbets, Bovada, and Sportsinteraction are always going to get 1 sided action on many games no matter what their volume is because they cater to recreational bettors. A bookie with 500 clients, many sharp, many recreational, will have a far better chance to balance their book. Little buddy, read facts and look at the argument.

  31. #31
    HedgeHog
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sobob99 View Post
    Have you been limited at any sportsbook? What actions have you taken to overcome your limits? I mean I understand limiting a person to $500 a bet, or fine maybe even $50 a bet, but $2.50 a bet, is that even ethical?
    Unless you're rolling over a bonus, you have no options other than to leave. If you are doing a bonus rollover and get severely limited, it is unethical.

  32. #32
    Optional
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    Quote Originally Posted by thomorino View Post


    For point out that Jeff Nadu is a fraud. He is a fraud and the SBR community is better off for knowing he's a fraud. I like SBR and respect the company but this guy is a total fraud. He actually deleted his college football picks at the beginning of the year in addition to deleting his April picks in MLB at the beginning of this year. You are an over emotional person who does not like facts.

    My point here in this thread is common sense as well. Bonus books like GTbets, Bovada, and Sportsinteraction are always going to get 1 sided action on many games no matter what their volume is because they cater to recreational bettors. A bookie with 500 clients, many sharp, many recreational, will have a far better chance to balance their book. Little buddy, read facts and look at the argument.

    I honestly don't know, or really care too much about what BMOC does with his own business. He's damn good on the video shows don't you think?

    My beef with you was winning a contest prize and immediately using that opportunity to slam SBR and throw that right back in their face. BMOC has nothing to do with that. You could make an anti-BMOC thread any time you like but anyway, as far as I am concerned that was last week and over.

    As a long time forum member I am anti-tout at heart and find it a bit weird in general that the same touts we would ban on the forum are such a big part of the video service. And the same touts who pretty much hate the SBR forum as it hosts a Service Play section, are happy to do it too.

    But after watching all of them quite a bit I realized they are pretty damn good and share a lot of info and food for thought and give a hell of a lot more value than I think they take in advertising for their services. I think the content and audience is more capper focused than service buyer by a long way too.

    In fact if it felt like it was an advertising platform for their tout services as a primary thing, I would not be able to watch it personally.

    Maybe SBR brass take what you are saying more seriously than I am here. I don't know.

  33. #33
    thomorino
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    Yeah, I don't agree with you here but I do agree having some touts on provides value, and I like listening to touts if only to fade them, some do have good info. I just think that now that SBR has made their shows interactive if a guy can't take criticism, and he can't, its hard to listen and interact. I think touts that are currently on and have been on before like Brandon Shively, Brenner, Donnie, Teddy Covers, and I'm sure many others, do provide value with their info regardless of whether or not they win in the short-term or long-term. I just think win or loss touts who get their owns shows should be honest, and BMOC is the only who seems to consistently have trouble winning and being honest - probably the 2 problems are linked.

    I think certain people who host videos for SBR like Pete represent the company, in many ways Peter Loshak is the face of SBR, and I really like Pete, humble, honest guy. I did not think that Jeff Nadu is a guy who is a face of SBR and thus did not view my thread as attacking SBR, but obviously 2 people can look at the same facts and reach a different conclusion.

  34. #34
    Optional
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeJo View Post
    Is there such a book that DOESNT a limit.. like Bookmaker for example.. if you are pounding them for 20k and 50k on football and get up 500 stacks.. basically what do the pros do once they are limited from all the books? Do they go from 50k to maybe 5k? I can see if a book follows a sharps plays, but then they too will be cut off or limited and so forth.. And nowadays with the limited # of books, wondering if it is worth the hassle for the long term winners.. on the other hand of u can get down a few dimes is better then nothing.. but from what I read the non US books are just as bad when it comes to getting limits cut..any incite would be greatly appreciated.. oh and Vegas from what I read is just as bad or worse than online and way more of a hassle the a click of a mouse
    True, most mainstream licensed books will limit you faster and lower than offshores do.

    If you are betting 50k units the people that want your business will find you.

  35. #35
    Honeybadger44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alfa1234 View Post

    You used "nothing to do with volume" and "if you don't balance your book in the short-term" in 1 breath. Kinda contradictory isn't it? Even if, and that's a huge if, your volume is 50% sharp and 50% recreational, it still won't work. As about 45% of your sharps will still make wrong bets on any give game. How do you decide which sharps to follow without enough volume? You get 1 bet and change your line...ooops our sharp was wrong this time and now we attracted a ton of action of the other side because we had the best line there. A sharp will be wrong 45-48% of the time. That's Problematic. The only way this can work is by using an enourmous "weight of money" and changing the lines as the money comes in. That's Pinnacle's model. You need a lot of volume and customers for that.
    Much easier to simply limit the sharps you have and copy the Pinnacle changes...which is how they do it now.
    I'm not too sure about this part which is highlighted. I think Pinnacle does it in many different ways, not only using weight of money. For example, I've moved Pinny lines (euro basket and challenger tennis) with bet amounts that were less then half of the limit offered. And that is saying to me that at the lower limits, they'll use some of the successful small accounts to get their lines sharper, before they let the big money kick in.

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