[tristan]

Some weeks ago we noticed Pinnacle had increased its margin on most of basketball championships: when odds were in the past about 1.943 / 1.943 , they are now 1.909 / 1.909 on many matches.
But today having a look at half-time total points market on turkey matches, i saw their odds dropped again and they now offer 1.869 / 1.869 ??
I remember some years ago when no one could contest Pinnacle supremacy in terms of high prices/odds, what happened since ??? How is it they now offer so poor / low odds/prices??
What's more, not only odds are worst and worst, but limits are too lower and lower on many handicap and total points for basketball matches!! where is the Pinnacle we knew in the past??

[jayc88]

online sportsbetting is a dying industry, better find another hobby

[MalikHusam]

can you post detailed analysis with many leagues and what ods are now and in the past? maybe some leagues are lower vig now?

[shaunovery]

1.98/1.93 lines for cavs game tonight

Look ok to me

[HeeeHAWWWW]

​1.95 1.95 pricing the last two nights also, just checked.

[Alfa1234]

I believe this is only the Turkish league.

[tristan]

1.98/1.93 lines for cavs game tonight

Look ok to me

Yes of course that doesn't concern the biggest league that is NBA, and other big leagues such as Euroleague aren't impacted too. But smaller leagues such as turkey league, adriatic leagues, poland...Most of smaller european leagues saw a drop in their prices

[jjgold]

all based on liquidity not the sport

[shaunovery]

Most books do the same for the lower leagues , as jj says much less liquidity to keep the market fluid

[tristan]

Most books do the same for the lower leagues , as jj says much less liquidity to keep the market fluid

I totally agree with all of you when you say most books offer lower prices for the lower leagues. However, things were different on Pinnacle in the past, Pinnacle made the effort to propose good prices for smaller leagues too. I took the example of turkey basketball because that's a league i regularly place bets on. Some months ago they proposed 1.943 / 1.943 for that league, but now they increased their margin and propose 1.9 / 1.9. yesterday on a match they even became totally "crazy" and proposed 1.8 / 1.8 ?! I just say Pinnacle increased their margin on some smaller league these last weeks... That's a fact.

[Alfa1234]

The point of Pinnacle is to start accepting small bets as soon as they open the market to "form" the lines. Ones these lines are sufficiently formed they can increase limits for that market as they know the lines are accurate and they have a built in margin.

Any ideas as to why this particular strategy has stopped working for them in these markets?

I personally have no idea but I do think they are having some serious issues...they've tried reducing the limits back to smaller amounts to reform the lines if they start moving too much again and they've been reduced to having bigger margins. None of this seems to have worked for them as now they have increased their margins even more. Why is that? Thoughts?

Is some big player manipulating these markets at the opening and every time Pinnacle increases the limits the "wrong" line is being pounded over and over again, only to be pulled back by opposite bets as soon as limits are reduced? Why would that work? Why can't they just pull the line back proportionately as soon as the smaller, opposite bets come back in to avoid a too big correction with the smaller limits?

[Optional]

It's Turkey Alfa... would be more surprising if no one was trying to manipulate things from there.

I guess what the OP said is basically false, "Pinnacle had increased its margin on most of basketball championships"

Worst I see on anything else is -107/-107 for Spanish league.

[Alfa1234]

I know Turkish games are more likely to be manipulated, but that doesn't mean Pinnacle's normal system of forming the lines should stop working. If a game is being manipulated or not makes no difference to them as line wise it's the same as a key player being injured a few hours before kick off.

[tristan]

I guess what the OP said is basically false, "Pinnacle had increased its margin on most of basketball championships"

Worst I see on anything else is -107/-107 for Spanish league.

I usually respect and agree with most of what you say Optionnal but on that particular point you should rather speak of what you really know instead of giving wrong informations and claiming what i say is basically false! What i say is 100 % correct. I have a look at Pinnacle lines on basketball almost 7/7 so when i tell you they increased their margin on most of smaller basketball championships, you can trust me ! I repeated several times that this drop in odds concerned smaller championships but you and others continue giving examples with the biggest leagues to say i'm wrong (unless you may ignore what are the big/small leagues?): Shaunovery selected odds of NBA (which is the biggest market of all basketball leagues), and you you choose Spanish league, which is the biggest european league, that's not what i call good demonstration.
As i told you, Pinnacle obviously increased its margin on most of smaller championships, perhaps it's hard for you to see it now because at that period of the year that 's the end of championships and there are less and less matches and championships. But you can't say what i say is false when i say Pinnacle increased its margin for Turkey, estonie, Adriatic, Poland, Philippin..and many other smaller leagues.
Just have a look at Philippin match right now if needed: in last september odds for phiippin were 1.925/1.925. They decreased to 1.909/1.909, and sometimes even less! At the moment for example, for total points of philippin match Barangay /Blackwater, odds are 1.869/1.869. All the people who regularly bet on these championships know what i say is correct.

[Optional]

I did trust you Tristan. Because you obviously do bet a lot of baskets there.

But then you posted that "Pinnacle had increased its margin on most of basketball championships".

So I thought that was big enough news that I had better double check what you are saying.

As I posted, nothing I saw was near your quotes for the Turkish league.

The worst was Spain at -107/-107


Next time you see this I'll look again.

[shaunovery]

Just checked a Romanian game

1.8/2.0 which would be 1.9/1.9 (10/11-10/11)

Italian match

1.94/1.93 so looks pretty good margin

Can't find any 1.83/1.83 matches

[Optional]

Yeah Poland is at -110/-110 too

I don't doubt that Tristan is correct that specific lower league margins are higher than he has seen in the past.

Only chimed in when he made it sound like most leagues and very large margins.

[tristan]

I did trust you Tristan. Because you obviously do bet a lot of baskets there.

But then you posted that "Pinnacle had increased its margin on most of basketball championships".



So I thought that was big enough news that I had better double check what you are saying.

As I posted, nothing I saw was near your quotes for the Turkish league.

The worst was Spain at -107/-107


Next time you see this I'll look again.

I let you see right now so if you can: philippin basketball, match Barangay / Blackwater, will start in 25 minutes. Odds for total points are -115 / -115 (at the beginning of the year they always were -108 /-108 for philippin matches).
I let you check so.
And this regularly happens for most of smaller championships now. I know that's hard to believe because Pinnacle's always been famous for the quality of their odds, even on smaller markets. But things have changed with Pinnacle...slowly...but surely

[shaunovery]

I usually respect and agree with most of what you say Optionnal but on that particular point you should rather speak of what you really know instead of giving wrong informations and claiming what i say is basically false! What i say is 100 % correct. I have a look at Pinnacle lines on basketball almost 7/7 so when i tell you they increased their margin on most of smaller basketball championships, you can trust me ! I repeated several times that this drop in odds concerned smaller championships but you and others continue giving examples with the biggest leagues to say i'm wrong (unless you may ignore what are the big/small leagues?): Shaunovery selected odds of NBA (which is the biggest market of all basketball leagues), and you you choose Spanish league, which is the biggest european league, that's not what i call good demonstration.
As i told you, Pinnacle obviously increased its margin on most of smaller championships, perhaps it's hard for you to see it now because at that period of the year that 's the end of championships and there are less and less matches and championships. But you can't say what i say is false when i say Pinnacle increased its margin for Turkey, estonie, Adriatic, Poland, Philippin..and many other smaller leagues.
Just have a look at Philippin match right now if needed: in last september odds for phiippin were 1.925/1.925. They decreased to 1.909/1.909, and sometimes even less! At the moment for example, for total points of philippin match Barangay /Blackwater, odds are 1.869/1.869. All the people who regularly bet on these championships know what i say is correct.

Does look like pinny having a bigger margin for totals just checked it was 1.83/1.83

[Optional]

I let you see right now so if you can: philippin basketball, match Barangay / Blackwater, will start in 25 minutes. Odds for total points are -115 / -115 (at the beginning of the year they always were -108 /-108 for philippin matches).
I let you check so.
And this regularly happens for most of smaller championships now. I know that's hard to believe because Pinnacle's always been famous for the quality of their odds, even on smaller markets. But things have changed with Pinnacle...slowly...but surely

As explained I was responding to this "Pinnacle had increased its margin on most of basketball championships".

I did not doubt what you were saying about specific lower volume leagues.

[dhristov211]

-115 before game? what is max bet? $50?

[tristan]

Turkey matches before game at the moment: for total points, -125 / -125 !!! worst and worst LOL

[Lookingtostart]

I suspect it's because of new owners since few years ago. I think this might be happening with soccer lines too, not 100% sure though. Perhaps some sharps have left since the new owners took over and they are struggling to have sharper lines.

[tsty]

I think it has to do with how much money is in the market at the time?