[betakos]

PT sent a database dump that showed the full text of the updated terms warning that was shown to people as they logged in and a screencap of their admin system showing the date/time/IP Omer apparently clicked accept.

They are confident this the legal way to update terms and that a court would accept it and their evidence of when it occurred.










I thought I had, in some detail. But in short, PremiumTradings position is that Omer broke the 199k settlement agreement and they should be able to withhold that 87k as they believe Omer owes them the 199k back.

Omer's position is that the 87k is from unrelated betting account balances belonging to his clients and should be treated separately to any dispute about the agreement and 199k payment.

Yes but since you saw the full text, where the amended/added rules highlighted from the whole set of rules, did the text included all the rules or just the amended/added ones. Taking out the debate whether the 50k rule is valid or not (as i've already mentioned on #205), if the text he accepted included only the rules that were added or changed or they were highlighted in some way, then he doesn't have any case on the ground "i didn't know". You see some companies had a tactic to hide an added rule (those that were tricky and questionable in particular) in a pile of rules and courts (at least in europe) suggested that amended or added rules should be stated clearly so the user is aware of them.......

As for 87k, they had no right to do so and don't see any rule on the private agreement that omer87 posted (when they returned them part of the money) that stated if you break the new deal (which according to omer he didn't) we will confiscate your balance. So if the 87k didn't come up as the excess profit from 1 day of activity, after the new deal was agreed, the answer to the question if Premium Tradings is scam, it's pretty simple and straightforward and is YES.

[Alfa1234]

As for 87k, they had no right to do so and don't see any rule on the private agreement that omer87 posted (when they returned them part of the money) that stated if you break the new deal (which according to omer he didn't) we will confiscate your balance. So if the 87k didn't come up as the excess profit from 1 day of activity, after the new deal was agreed, the answer to the question if Premium Tradings is scam, it's pretty simple and straightforward and is YES.

If you sign a deal to get 199k, then proceed to break that deal, you no longer have a right to the 199k that deal got you. That point of view gives PT the right to take 87k and they should get another 112k back from Omer as well.

And not breaking the deal? Come on...have you even read it?? It states in black and white he is not allowed to make the info public and he signed it. How is posting a thread on a public forum not breaking that deal?

Omer is an idiot for breaking the deal while he still had 87k there, utter and complete stupidity. It doesn't make PT a scam company, far from that. They made a deal giving him 199k more than he had a right to get in the first place...I cannot believe people still want to call them a scam after that.

[betakos]

From a law point of view it's stealing, plain and simple. There wasn't any such rule on the document provided from Omer and they had no right to do that.....Furthermore Omer made the case public (for the second time) after Premium Tradings confiscated his 87k balance.

But i guess some people believe that the rapist is innocent and it's the victim's fault that wore a short dress, ok there are such people out there, won't go into argument with them........

[Alfa1234]

http://i.hizliresim.com/GB3GPN.png

Point 2. Henceforth, I will not make any comment regarding the matter via any type of platform.

There wasn't any such rule on the document provided from Omer and they had no right to do that.....

Well done buddy. That's like saying a lemon is red, while you see one right in front of you.

[piterp]

But i guess some people believe that the rapist is innocent and it's the victim's fault that wore a short dress, ok there are such people out there, won't go into argument with them........

Dont expected too much from premium trading representative

[dealer wins]

PT wont comment anymore quite rightly, they reached agreement and one of the parties breached it.

I was undecided before but now I believe PT were in the right all along.

[betakos]

Well done buddy. That's like saying a lemon is red, while you see one right in front of you.

Where does it say that in case of breach of the agreement we will confiscate your account? And as far as anyone can read, first they took his money and then he made the case public again.

Anyway you can't fight stupidity with arguments.....

[Alfa1234]

And as far as anyone can read, first they took his money and then he made the case public again.

While I was working on to take my money back (remaining balance of 66,000€); they seized another 87,355€ of me.

I suppose simply working against an agreement does not constitute a breach of it either?

Where does it say that in case of breach of the agreement we will confiscate your account?

Buddy, when you sign a contract to receive say 150k from a bank as a loan, but before doing that you have to give the bank a collateral...do you think your bank will still give you that 150k if you fail to give that collateral? In this case, you already got the 150k because the bank trusted you, then didn't proceed to give the bank the collateral...so the bank took the money back. Welcome to the real world.

A. Agreement: you sign this, we give you 199k.
B. Agreement signed, 199k sent and received.
C. Agreement broken first time
D. 199k should be sent back
E. Agreement broken a second time by posting about it
F. 87k taken, 112k to go.

The case is laid out clearly in this thread, anyone still posting stuff like that either cannot read or is blindly disregarding facts and only sees what he wants to see. There is no point in arguing about it anymore.

And regarding your bold comment: I love it how everybody that cannot win an argument keeps resorting to name calling. Again, well done.

[omer87]

Hi guys,

All the posts under this thread written by Alfa1234 belong to the owner of PT. He tries to deceive people here. He is a real swindler.


I post a thread here about the seizure of my money by PT; suddenly someone called Alfa1234 comes here and posts every time to defend PT. What a shame! What a poor one you are!


As I mentioned before; the document that PT showed to Option is completely FAKE. If I had signed such a document; I must be really crazy enough to let my customers bet on such huge amounts.


The amount of 87,000€
that they have stolen from me is done by closing my agency accounts. I did not violate the rules. I did not write anything bad on the forums. They just realized that I do not want to go on working with them by trying to withdraw my money from them. Just after
that they seized my money by closing my accounts.



The amount of 153,000€ that
I OWN is now in PT' s
accounts. The customers who tried to gain such amounts took risks. I made the
payment of their gains. However PT says that you won too much; so I seize your
money by changing my T&Cs. What a shame!
Once more please everyone be aware of that
"ALFA1234" = "OWNER of PT". All he tries to do here is to show the swindler firm called "PremiumTradings" pretty enough not to lose their customers anymore. It is not aslso difficult for you to observe this by reading the previous posts.



PT does not even have a licence. It is an illegal firm and being
managed by swindler and poor people. The seizure of 153,000€ of me by PT is the guarantee of the next seizures. From now
on; the ones who goes on working with these thieves should be ready for the
seizure of their money also!
I will not give up working to take the money "I OWN"
from these thieves and at the end I am sure that I will get my money back!

[Alfa1234]

Ok, so now I went from client, to shill, to PT employee, to owner of arbusers, to owner of PT. Nice. I'm a very busy boy. Still with the name calling, nothing to counter the arguments though except "it's a fake document, PT faked it". Well done.

Shouldn't you be directing your energy into getting legal advice as Optional told you? Reposting here is not going to get you anywhere.

[relaaxx]

Hi guys,

All the posts under this thread written by Alfa1234 belong to the owner of PT. He tries to deceive people here. He is a real swindler.


I post a thread here about the seizure of my money by PT; suddenly someone called Alfa1234 comes here and posts every time to defend PT. What a shame! What a poor one you are!


As I mentioned before; the document that PT showed to Option is completely FAKE. If I had signed such a document; I must be really crazy enough to let my customers bet on such huge amounts.


The amount of 87,000€
that they have stolen from me is done by closing my agency accounts. I did not violate the rules. I did not write anything bad on the forums. They just realized that I do not want to go on working with them by trying to withdraw my money from them. Just after
that they seized my money by closing my accounts.



The amount of 153,000€ that
I OWN is now in PT' s
accounts. The customers who tried to gain such amounts took risks. I made the
payment of their gains. However PT says that you won too much; so I seize your
money by changing my T&Cs. What a shame!
Once more please everyone be aware of that
"ALFA1234" = "OWNER of PT". All he tries to do here is to show the swindler firm called "PremiumTradings" pretty enough not to lose their customers anymore. It is not aslso difficult for you to observe this by reading the previous posts.



PT does not even have a licence. It is an illegal firm and being
managed by swindler and poor people. The seizure of 153,000€ of me by PT is the guarantee of the next seizures. From now
on; the ones who goes on working with these thieves should be ready for the
seizure of their money also!
I will not give up working to take the money "I OWN"
from these thieves and at the end I am sure that I will get my money back!

I agree - alfa1234 has been defending them like they are his children - and you should get all the money, they should keep nothing, forced to make an agreement to get your money is the problem , telling everyone even if they said you can't should be expected, everyone who is in the same situation should do the same so everyone else knows how bad the book is and the lengths they will go, to keep it quiet.

reading alfa1234's bullshit is getting sickening , please go to some other thread or forum for awhile

[Optional]

Here is some UK lawyers specializing in Turkish speaking clients.

http://www.btla.org.uk/
http://www.londonlegalint.co.uk/about-us/our-team/
http://www.duncanlewis.co.uk/brochures_Turkish.html
http://www.kobaltlaw.co.uk/our-team/...obalt-law-llp/
http://www.darlingtons.com/blog/turk...tors-in-london
http://www.levenes.co.uk/about-us/ou...al-executives/


I'd suggest contacting them and asking for an opinion on your prospects Omer. That probably wont cost anything. You won't get your money back just complaining on forums now.

[relaaxx]

when in doubt - listen to optional

[Abettor]

I agree - alfa1234 has been defending them like they are his children - and you should get all the money, they should keep nothing, forced to make an agreement to get your money is the problem , telling everyone even if they said you can't should be expected, everyone who is in the same situation should do the same so everyone else knows how bad the book is and the lengths they will go, to keep it quiet.

reading alfa1234's bullshit is getting sickening , please go to some other thread or forum for awhile

I couldn't put it better... You cannot expect Omer or anybody else not to accept the agreement to save at least part of HIS money, and then go for the rest. Anyone in their right mind would. It's easy to criticize and state that Omer acted wrong, but then again, we'd have to see how these T&C paladins would react to a 6-digit money seizure. Not so easy to stay calm, huh?

As I see it, he didn't do anything wrong. He took what he could, and if I remember right, he clearly stated that even if he accepted PT's offer (seriously, who wouldn't accept the 200k and risk not receiving anything? are you an idiot?), HE WOULD GO FOR THE REST, til the last penny. Of course he would, it's his money after all, regardless of whatever loan analogies we want to make, this is his money and not any loan request. The whole funny point here is that some seem to think that PT even look good for making such a generous offer (???) when they shouldn't be offering shit in the first place and just paying out what's due.

Also funny how some guys recurrently choose to stand on the bookies's side when as bettors we should always support each other and try to press bookies into better, more fair conditions for all of us... right? I would say that's only logical. But then people's interests become apparent, and consider this no name-calling, it's simple observation. Someone here is friends with the bookies or just has their interests all messed up... But anyway, this has been discussed too, like has the whole case, so it's up to each one to make up their minds.

My conclusion is that I will never go near PremiumTradings and will make sure nobody near me does. I certainly do not consider them to be the worst or even among the top shady companies out there, but their behaviour regarding this case is simply unacceptable and cannot be left unanswered, so I will just do my tiny part by not going anywhere near them and so will my acquaintances. PremiumTradings are running a business here, don't forget that, and they MUST do it properly: it's up to them to ENSURE not to freeroll their customers. Not agreeing with this is plain laughable, for a number of reasons. I'll keep it short because it has all been said, but

- First of all, the obvious fact that they are the company and it's their ethical responsibility and obligation, or maybe even legal (well if it isn't, it should). How can it be argued that it's OK to accept bets that won't be honoured? Don't even try...

- On the other hand, just something being on T&C doesn't make it ethical, not even legal sometimes, and certainly NOT ENOUGH. It's not even the crucial point, but the fact that they don't make such a rule EXTREMELY OVER-EXPLICIT also tells us something, doesn't it?

- Last but not least, that it's technically difficult to implement exempts them from doing it? Serious? As I said, it's their business and entirely up to them to choose to do things right, and they certainly could implement such limits to protect their customers if they wanted to in the first place, but it seems it might be more profitable not to.

It's also entirely up to us to do business with them, and it is clear I will not from now on. I probably won't be missed, but they will notice it when (if?) many of us leave.

PS: And yes, Alfa1234, it's getting disgusting to have to read your bullshit. You are certainly free to go on (like we all are!) but that's just how I see it

[Kipsy1979]

Alfa's comments are sick! Not impressed

[tsty]

From a law point of view it's stealing, plain and simple. There wasn't any such rule on the document provided from Omer and they had no right to do that.....Furthermore Omer made the case public (for the second time) after Premium Tradings confiscated his 87k balance.

But i guess some people believe that the rapist is innocent and it's the victim's fault that wore a short dress, ok there are such people out there, won't go into argument with them........

Why have you guys not addressed this point? Why do you keep ignoring it?

If it wasn't part of his contract nor in the terms and conditions last year then why does it apply to him? Why are you guys introducing randoms terms and then forcing it on him?

this is penetrating ridiculous

who gives a shit about what happened next in the resolution

you guys are penetrating thieving animals

[dealer wins]

Sign a contract agreeing not to discuss the matter and resolution publicly, then post all over the internet and wonder why PT have decided that the contract is no longer valid.

Many naive people on here lol

[ERSOY29]

I've been dealers at PremiumTradings, thank goodness I have found the opportunity to read all the articles on the forum. I have been in this market for many years. But I did not see such a fraud. The allegations of premiumtradings advocate alfa1234 have totally ridiculed me. Betting companies that know that this type of business is not legal in our country is trying to put you in a way. Nowadays, this wound is pulled up as much as the gentlemen. I hope this kind of events do not happen after that. And I can hope to collect the Omer money again. Only I see the omer a little bit wrong. How can you work with a company that keeps your name, address, company address, phone and website's whois information hidden on the website?

[MaxShalamar]

In hindsight Omer should have withdrawn any balance before trying to get back the original money - I certainly would have withdrawn every remaining penny if I thought I was being ripped off

At the very least PT should have a banner very prominently on their homepage reiterating this 50k "rule" so that no one else is ripped off

And yes, Alfa's defence of PT after every negative post is very strange for someone who has (allegedly) no connection to them

[betakos]

Yes Max, there are at least 2 PT trolls on this topic

[arie1985]

I'd suggest contacting them and asking for an opinion on your prospects Omer. That probably wont cost anything. You won't get your money back just complaining on forums now.

I am not sure if he would get back his money or not but at least customers like me who do use agents are going to put a big on PremiumTradings (and I have an account with them) unless this issue is resolved.

They might screw a big bettor today with a 50k rule today but tomorrow they could begone.

Not to mention their competitor AC has a full support 24/7 throughout many means and a much more sophisticated account system for deposits/withdrawals etc. and AC in my opinion has the potential to survive a turbulence much better than PT.

Whatever PT has done is 100% unethical.
Is it legal? I don't know but it's 100% unethical.

And when an agent wants to silence a customer, "legally" with a contract - that means the agent is unscrupulous, this is not even open for interpretation.

I don't agree with optional that it should be resolved only via means of lawyers and solicitors - if the red line had been crossed then all means are "Kosher" ... it's like a divorce when both sides say dirty things about the other one .... unfortunately that's part of a divorce and so long as both sides are not happy then this shouldn't be silenced, on the contrary - the more people staying away from PT because of this the better (and I'm proud to be one of those who is going to sway from PT).

PS Alfa - I've spent over 2 hours (non-consecutive) to read this long thread - you've damaged this thread much more than contributed ... where I come from our old wise sages have said "a fence to cleverness is silence". I suggest you put this into practice.

[tsty]

Sign a contract agreeing not to discuss the matter and resolution publicly, then post all over the internet and wonder why PT have decided that the contract is no longer valid.

Many naive people on here lol

huh? What does that have to do with what happened earlier?

Imagine I robbed your house then made you sign a contract stating that I would give half back only if you didn't tell anyone?

This is hilarious lol

You guys are all worrying about stuff that is irrelevant rather than the actual issue at hand which is the robbery of the house

[Craig22]

Pathetic that people on here think extortion(forcing him to sign a contract to receive payment) is justified. Nevertheless, the 50k rule is no justification to seize cash from a player when the company's business plan revolves around turnover- they are not a sportsbook. Fine, put the rule in place, but pay him back.

[reverdy]

Well, I've been following the thread since it first came up on Arbusers.
I can see people have debates against agreements whether it's shown to client or not.
If there's a cap on max winning amounts and PT has position taking in those stakes, why did they let their agent's clients to bet that big? It would be nice to see if those bets were settled as losers. They were happy to accept it hoping it would lose since it's a NBA parlay but when it wins, alarm bells were ringing for everyone at PT.
Omer has some flaws here and there regarding T&C and everything but i believe it's PT's responsibility to block him from placing that big. If they have accepted that risk, they have to settle with outcome and pay it.
I sincerely hope he gets his money from PT.

[arie1985]

Well, I've been following the thread since it first came up on Arbusers.
I can see people have debates against agreements whether it's shown to client or not.
If there's a cap on max winning amounts and PT has position taking in those stakes, why did they let their agent's clients to bet that big? It would be nice to see if those bets were settled as losers. They were happy to accept it hoping it would lose since it's a NBA parlay but when it wins, alarm bells were ringing for everyone at PT.
Omer has some flaws here and there regarding T&C and everything but i believe it's PT's responsibility to block him from placing that big. If they have accepted that risk, they have to settle with outcome and pay it.
I sincerely hope he gets his money from PT.

I totally agree with you about this.

[Abettor]

Absolutely agreed reverdy. It is a relief to see that this stays a healthy forum, with most people standing on the right side.

You have our support Omer, good luck man.

[betakos]

So Omer any update on your case?

[omer87]

So Omer any update on your case?

No updates yet.

[coment]

here we discover thar arbuser is also a bit of a scamer beouse he delited the topic about premium tradings. Today i was delited from his forume. I dint poste not even a single coment ther for mounths since i open my account. Now i assume he read personal meseges. Be cerful guys what you tell ther

[arie1985]

here we discover thar arbuser is also a bit of a scamer beouse he delited the topic about premium tradings. Today i was delited from his forume. I dint poste not even a single coment ther for mounths since i open my account. Now i assume he read personal meseges. Be cerful guys what you tell ther

You mean the arb forum deleted the thread about premium tradings? I guess they pressured them to do it because they see it as defamation but really it's negligence and being unscrupulous if you ask me.
This is not the way to resolve the matter. Common sense is always the way for things to prevail.

[steven12]

here we discover thar arbuser is also a bit of a scamer beouse he delited the topic about premium tradings. Today i was delited from his forume. I dint poste not even a single coment ther for mounths since i open my account. Now i assume he read personal meseges. Be cerful guys what you tell ther

I got some necessary things there, I can't deny it. Honestly Arbusers forum still is best place to get unbiased information about bookies. There were very good valuable posts and experienced users but all experienced users banned by the owner of arbusers forum. forum moderator has some psychological problems.

[MaxShalamar]

I got some necessary things there, I can't deny it. Honestly Arbusers forum still is best place to get unbiased information about bookies. There were very good valuable posts and experienced users but all experienced users banned by the owner of arbusers forum. forum moderator has some psychological problems.

Pretty much everyone has gone from the old crowd when I joined about 4 years ago - I left because of the way Arbusers defended PT and hid the thread and his fanboys (you know who) jumped on the bandwagon to attack any negative post about PT.

The place is useful for newbs but no point for an experienced arber even logging on now

[Optional]

I think the Arbusers moderator tried to do the right thing but just didn't quite know how to handle it.

The thread over there was so full of both shills and trolls that it really wasn't going anywhere. I think they considered it too unfair and damaging to Premium Tradings, who to be fair did have a good record up until this one dispute. Plus I think they became a little bit freaked out when one section of posters in that thread started deleting all their own posts and making the thread look like it made even less sense.

Anyways, I may be biased as a fellow forum moderator, but I wouldn't shoot the messenger over there just based on this one issue.



@Omer, maybe try speaking with PT again now that the situation has cooled off a bit?

[MaxShalamar]

Arbusers deleted a lot of posts in that thread and not the members who posted them

[charliesays]

As a total outsider, it's clear some posters in here have an agenda. But you can only speculate on a keyboard warriors motivation for writing the stuff they do.

Seems pretty clear that PT was free rolling Omer, in my view probably because he is a Turkish national. They stitched him up good and proper. But not keeping schtum, pulling the remaining funds out and then going the forums was a big error. You gave up your leverage too easily Omer. With all the information in the public domain, there's no incentive to settle. I do hope you get your money though.

If nothing else, this thread does highlight the pitfalls of agents, and is great food for thought.